US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies - Page 4

Sprayber · July 16, 2002, 15:16

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Originally posted by Lemmy

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I got it from dear St Markus, and the nice thread he posted about Dutch law.

Must be disheartening to realize you live in a police state like Holland that censors your free speach, eh?

must be one of those laws that are ignored by the police, like how prostitution and soft-drugs are theoretically illegal, but most policemen have enough commen sense to realize that enforcing those laws is a waste of time.
I've never heard of a law like this btw

What is the point of having a law, if it isn't enforced?

Why do you trust anyone to determine which laws are enforced and which ones are ignored?

Why don't your politicians get rid of those laws if they don't intend them to be followed?

Imran Siddiqui · July 16, 2002, 15:20

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What is the point of having a law, if it isn't enforced?

Ask the Southern US states wrt sodomy laws.

Chris 62 · July 16, 2002, 15:20

They enforce it Spray, but he can't be a holier then thou Euro elitist if he admits it.

Marky Mark was quite upset by that whole matter in fact.

drake · July 16, 2002, 15:21

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the ones that worry me are the ones who confidently say "i'm willing to give up some of my rights to be safe."

Such as what...who said anything about giving up rights? We're talking about a few people looking out for suspicious activity.

What have the American people sacrificed since this whole ordeal started? Jack ****, thats what. We don't have the slightest conception of what real sacrifice is.

If my 5 minutes of incovenience being searched at an airprot saves a few hundred people, my inconvenience is well spent. Or are my 5 minutes too valuable to sacrifice?

Chris 62 · July 16, 2002, 15:24

Stop being reasonble Drake!

This is Apolyton for god sakes!

Sprayber · July 16, 2002, 15:29

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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

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What is the point of having a law, if it isn't enforced?

Ask the Southern US states wrt sodomy laws.

Who has ever said that was a good thing Imran? He seemed quite proud of it.

Lemmy · July 16, 2002, 15:31

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What is the point of having a law, if it isn't enforced?

Why do you trust anyone to determine which laws are enforced and which ones are ignored?

Why don't your politicians get rid of those laws if they don't intend them to be followed?

there has been talk of legalizing soft drugs, but some politcians are afraid of the international consequences, there are parties who openly lobby for legalizing it, but unfortunately, they didn't get the majority of the votes, because of their other issues, not because of their stance on softdrugs. It's not that the politicians don't intend them to be followed, they have to be politically correct and be against any drug use off course. It's the police and the rest of the society that realizes that it's not evil, and impossible to stop, so why enforce?
And i'm actually not sure if prostitution is illegal.

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They enforce it Spray, but he can't be a holier then thou Euro elitist if he admits it.

uhuh, i know of at least 3 places in Utrecht where they sell soft-drugs, i know they've been selling soft-drugs for 4 years now, even though i've never used it myself...if i know about it, don't you think the cops would know about it, and do something about it if they actually enforced those laws.

Q Classic · July 16, 2002, 15:32

drake, that comment... i take it you didn't read the victor galis post right above mine.

that comment was intended more for that, than in terms of the debate as a whole.

get a grip.

as for being searched at the airport, i have no problem with that-- i just wish it worked like it's supposed to.

Victor Galis · July 16, 2002, 15:34

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Such as what...who said anything about giving up rights? We're talking about a few people looking out for suspicious activity.

-Yeah, just about 10 million or so

. This is not at all fundamentally different from what the Stasi and KGB did.

Victor Galis · July 16, 2002, 15:36

I've lost serious rights as a result of the PATRIOT Act.

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 15:36

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Originally posted by Chris 62
Stop being reasonble Drake!

This is Apolyton for god sakes!

But we love it

Sprayber · July 16, 2002, 15:44

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Originally posted by Lemmy
there are parties who openly lobby for legalizing it, but unfortunately, they didn't get the majority of the votes, because of their other issues, not because of their stance on softdrugs. It's not that the politicians don't intend them to be followed, they have to be politically correct and be against any drug use off course.

Why do they need to be pollitically correct if all the people support it? Are they that afraid that the US will invade you for making drugs legit.

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It's the police and the rest of the society that realizes that it's not evil, and impossible to stop, so why enforce?

This makes your other laws meaningless. Why should anyone take your laws seriously if you don't enforce them all. Why should anyone take advice from people that enforce some of their laws and not others?

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uhuh, i know of at least 3 places in Utrecht where they sell soft-drugs, i know they've been selling soft-drugs for 4 years now, even though i've never used it myself...if i know about it, don't you think the cops would know about it, and do something about it if they actually enforced those laws.

I think Chris is talking about your speech laws.

drake · July 16, 2002, 15:46

Victor your paranoia and pessimism is quite depressing. Why must you be such a cynical angry young person?

You and Che should get together and write a book or make a movie......

What serious rights have you lost because of the patriot act? Tell me how your day to day life has changed because of it.

Chris 62 · July 16, 2002, 15:47

Spray, your fine memory strikes again, can you remember the exact case?

It seems to have escaped me for the moment.

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 15:47

Aren't there always some laws that are not enforced as they are meant to be? You will find many old laws that are technically still in place but they are not enforced anymore.

Sprayber · July 16, 2002, 15:55

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Originally posted by Chris 62
Spray, your fine memory strikes again, can you remember the exact case?

It seems to have escaped me for the moment.

I believe that we were discussing hate speech and you were saying something like in America people have the right to say stupid and racist things. And Marky piped in that in his country laws prevented anyone from making disparaging remarks about ethinic minorities.

Lemmy · July 16, 2002, 15:56

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Originally posted by Sprayber

Why do they need to be pollitically correct if all the people support it? Are they that afraid that the US will invade you for making drugs legit.

internationally soft drugs are still seen as bad, and it really isn't a big issue here, so why bother to change it, and i'm not sure if the Dutch government is capable of doing it without angering the rest of the EU, cos that would mean a German could buy softdrugs in Holland, and easily bring it to Germany.

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This makes your other laws meaningless. Why should anyone take your laws seriously if you don't enforce them all. Why should anyone take advice from people that enforce some of their laws and not others?

i dunno, because of their conscience?

I agree with you that it is stupid to have a law and then not enforce it, it's better to get rid of that law then, but there has never been a real incentive to do that.

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I think Chris is talking about your speech laws.

well, i've never seen of heard about them being enforced either, and i doubt that there is actually such a law, maybe it's misinterpreted by chris or st. marcus.

Sprayber · July 16, 2002, 15:58

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Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Aren't there always some laws that are not enforced as they are meant to be? You will find many old laws that are technically still in place but they are not enforced anymore.

Then you go in there and strike those laws out. That way, you don't have any doubts about what is against the law and what is not.

Imran Siddiqui · July 16, 2002, 16:02

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He seemed quite proud of it.

He did?

Victor Galis · July 16, 2002, 16:04

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Victor your paranoia and pessimism is quite depressing. Why must you be such a cynical angry young person?

You and Che should get together and write a book or make a movie......

What serious rights have you lost because of the patriot act? Tell me how your day to day life has changed because of it.

-I find Habeas Corpus a important and serious right, of course when my life changes because of the lack of this I shall be quite unable to tell you about it.

Certainly, the reaction to Sept. 11th has had more of an impact on my life than the terrorist attack.

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 16:05

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Originally posted by Sprayber

Then you go in there and strike those laws out. That way, you don't have any doubts about what is against the law and what is not.

Spray

Look at THIS: http://www.maceandcrown.com/_section...002stupid.html

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For instance, a law written in Michigan in 1897 forbade swearing in front of women and children. Fast forward to 1999 when Timothy Boomer was canoeing, until his canoe tipped over. Naturally, he started cussing like a sailor, well within earshot of a mother and her children on the shoreline. The mother got offended, had him arrested under the antiquated law and, surprisingly, Boomer was convicted and punished. It was only last week that his conviction was overturned. That's three years of this man's life that was wasted fighting a law that shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Lemmy · July 16, 2002, 16:05

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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

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He seemed quite proud of it.

He did?

you talking about me?
i'm proud of the liberal attitude of the police, and society as a whole, not the ignoring of laws, the best thing would be to remove the law as previously suggested.

DerSchwarzfalke · July 16, 2002, 16:06

Bah, I told people not to vote Bush... But no, no one ever listens to me

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 16:11

and this was discussed here a short while ago I think

http://www.dumblaws.com/states/index.html

Montana

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It is illegal for a man and a woman to have sex in any other position other than missionary style

ROFL

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 16:13

I could see Drake giving tutorial lessons

Lemmy · July 16, 2002, 16:20

http://www.dumblaws.com/countries/co...ry=Netherlands

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It is legal to smoke pot, buy it, or have less than 5 grams with you.

ah yes, it is only illegal to sell softdrugs

but i don't see what this is doing on that site:

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Prostitution is legal but the prostitutes must pay taxes like any other business

what is so dumb about that?

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 16:27

I cant myself help but post this for all Texans:

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When two trains meet each other at a railroad crossing, each shall come to a full stop, and neither shall proceed until the other has gone.

It is illegal to take more than three sips of beer at a time while standing.

Up to a felony charge can be levied for promoting the use of, or owning more than six dildos.

You can be legally married by publically introducing a person as your husband or wife 3 times.

It is illegal for one to shoot a buffalo from the second story of a hotel.

It is illegal to milk another person's cow.

A recently passed anticrime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed.

Homosexual behavior is a misdemeanor offense.

The entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a formula for making beer at home.

old/ weird laws galore

OneFootInTheGrave · July 16, 2002, 16:31

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Originally posted by Lemmy
http://www.dumblaws.com/countries/co...ry=Netherlands

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It is legal to smoke pot, buy it, or have less than 5 grams with you.

ah yes, it is only illegal to sell softdrugs

but i don't see what this is doing on that site:

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Prostitution is legal but the prostitutes must pay taxes like any other business

what is so dumb about that?

This might be in a weird laws section - but did you click the explanation link - anyway that shows that the Dutch have evolved to a bit more civilized society than the rest of the world on that point.

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Law: Prostitution is legal but the prostitutes must pay taxes like any other business.
Country: Netherlands

Explanation: In order to regulate a profession that had continued illegally for quite some time, this law was passed. Now, prostitutes are regulated and have civil rights. Prostitution is now much more than safer and cleaner than in previous eras when it was often stigmatized and confined to poor sections of a town.

Victor Galis · July 16, 2002, 17:23

I hear the county that the Jack Daniels distillery is in is dry.

Lefty Scaevola · July 16, 2002, 17:36

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Originally posted by Victor Galis
I hear the county that the Jack Daniels distillery is in is dry.

True. They cannot not sell it in stores in that county, But the State legislature did pass a special exemption allowing them to sell a small bit at the distillery in connection with tours there.