Ctp3

Wise Ass · July 16, 2002, 11:40

Would it be leaglal for Activision to make a third installment of the series?

rah · July 16, 2002, 11:43

You bothered to create a DL just to post this?

Alex · July 16, 2002, 12:39

*Alex does the DL dance*

Deeeeeeee.... L!

Wise Ass · July 16, 2002, 14:54

This isn't a DL I'm Wise Ass everywhere! I just activated my user name from like a year ago and really like CTP2 and think if leagally possible Activision should keep up the series.

Oerdin · July 16, 2002, 15:55

Legally yes; financially no.

Pedrunn · July 16, 2002, 23:30

It would be the greatest.

But probably wont happen

Wise Ass · July 16, 2002, 23:52

If you think about it...

A little bit of a graphics overhaul, Smarter AI (with open code), A merge of the best of both editors (Civ3 & CTP2), Merge of the trade systems (you negotiate deals but it still shows the goods transferred so you can pirate it).

Other major and minor stuff and it would be the greatest game ever!

centrifuge · July 17, 2002, 00:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Wise Ass
If you think about it...

A little bit of a graphics overhaul, Smarter AI (with open code), A merge of the best of both editors (Civ3 & CTP2), Merge of the trade systems (you negotiate deals but it still shows the goods transferred so you can pirate it).

Other major and minor stuff and it would be the greatest game ever!

Absolutely, espescially the bit about the open-code. The ability to create mods and scenarios is, afterall, what gives staying power to these types of games.

Wise Ass · July 17, 2002, 01:59

Yea if the first two weren't open code they would not have sold half of the the few copies they did sell.

If Activision hired the people who have made CTP2 what it is today to design it they would have a gold mine... hmmm...

Kind of sad what happens when a good idea is poorly funded and even more poorly developed.

Locutus · July 17, 2002, 15:10

Rah,
No offense, but keep your DL dances in the OT please. Here we tend to be nice to newcomers, even if they are DLs... (the fact that Wise Ass knows what a DL is, is quite suspicious, although it doesn't prove anything; his regdate OTOH pleads for him; either way, until proven guilty by your brother (who should be checking as I edit this post

), he's innocent to me).

Wise Ass,
As pointed out, Activision gave up on the CtP series because CtP2 was a total financial failure, almost bankrupted the company. They won't want to burn their hands a second time

However, contrary to what you said, CtP1 was actually extremely successful commercially, it sold more copies than SMAC, which was itself already a best-seller. CtP1 even temporarily re-entered the top 10 of best selling games a few months ago, so it's still selling!

Immortal Wombat · July 17, 2002, 18:05

I'm amazed rah even read this thread

Quote:

If Activision hired the people who have made CTP2 what it is today to design it they would have a gold mine... hmmm...

Kind of sad what happens when a good idea is poorly funded and even more poorly developed

Our daily lament. Welcome

Locutus · July 17, 2002, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
I'm amazed rah even read this thread

Agreed

But he probably just followed a profile/link...

Oerdin · July 17, 2002, 20:59

I don't even know what a DL is.

centrifuge · July 17, 2002, 21:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
I don't even know what a DL is.

It stands for double logon, some schizophrenics use them to have more than one identity.

Oerdin · July 17, 2002, 21:59

oh...

Pedrunn · July 18, 2002, 02:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Wise Ass
If you think about it...

A little bit of a graphics overhaul, Smarter AI (with open code), A merge of the best of both editors (Civ3 & CTP2), Merge of the trade systems (you negotiate deals but it still shows the goods transferred so you can pirate it).

Other major and minor stuff and it would be the greatest game ever!

Yet.. Probably wont happen!

But it is the goal of this community.

And one day we will reach it!!!

Long Life to ctp2 apolyton mod community

Alex · July 18, 2002, 08:35

Hey, Locutus, the CTP2 forums deserve some fun too!

Back on topic, it is sad that Activision will not publish another game in the series. I think that this line of civ games generated some good and even fantastic ideas, and it could be much more improved and expanded to become the ultimate civ game we all want. Anyway, CTP2 is almost there, thanks to the incredible effort made by the modders community.

Wise Ass · July 18, 2002, 12:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
Rah,
No offense, but keep your DL dances in the OT please. Here we tend to be nice to newcomers, even if they are DLs... (the fact that Wise Ass knows what a DL is, is quite suspicious, although it doesn't prove anything; his regdate OTOH pleads for him; either way, until proven guilty by your brother (who should be checking as I edit this post

), he's innocent to me).

I actually went to the abbreiviations thread in the Civ3 general forum to look up what DL meant

. Newbie will not be my middle name!

Quote:

Wise Ass,
As pointed out, Activision gave up on the CtP series because CtP2 was a total financial failure, almost bankrupted the company. They won't want to burn their hands a second time

I somewhat knew of the failure that was CTP2 as many threads suggest that it is a horrible game despite revies that give the game high scores. I didn't realize though that Activision had focused on it to be a "Franchise Series" though... Didn't seem like they supported that game especially since the CTP2 website basically passes the buck to Apolyton.

Quote:

However, contrary to what you said, CtP1 was actually extremely successful commercially, it sold more copies than SMAC, which was itself already a best-seller. CtP1 even temporarily re-entered the top 10 of best selling games a few months ago, so it's still selling!

I did not know it had outsold SMAC!!! However that could be due to the limited distribution it had as if you went shopping right now you are way more likely to find CTP than SMAC. I did know that it re-entered the top ten list though as I started a thread on it at Gamecatcher

As I said before the scope and openness of CTP mixed with the ease and depth of civ would be an ultimate gaming experience. Another major roadblock is that (to my understanding) there are a lot of trademarks and copyright to both series making them harder to merge (though I don't understand how you can get rights to an idea such as "one click city screen" as I thought I read).

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexnm
Hey, Locutus, the CTP2 forums deserve some fun too!

Yeah, but they deserve new members even more, and we wouldn't want to scare anyone away...

Quote:

Originally posted by Wise Ass
somewhat knew of the failure that was CTP2 as many threads suggest that it is a horrible game despite revies that give the game high scores.

Well, the problem is that 90% of the people screaming the game is horrible never actually played it. Usually they played CtP1 for half an hour, concluded that it wasn't Civ2 and hated it and are still busy with a slander campaign against it. You can find some of these morons in the Civ3 section but most of them stopped playing Civ ages ago (screaming that every Civ-like game that comes out s*cks, just because it isn't Civ2) and can only be found in Off Topic and such places.

But even those who have played it, have never played the modded game and still don't have a clue about how good the game really is. Game reviewers are of course all idiots, I remember several reviews praising CtP2 for its great AI

So even though they were were not entirely wrong, I tend to ignore them myself and listen to hard-core fans (which are obviously not those aforementioned screaming morons).

Well, I'm not sure if CtP2 was a "Francise Series" for Activision, but because of the enormous success of CtP1, they had high expectations. Combine that with their at the time very weak financial position and the failure of one or two other games as well, which were together with CtP2 supposed to get them out of their weak position, and it almost killed the company. Soon after CtP2's release they reorganised and dropped game developing altogether (focussing solely on publishing), which is the reason they still exist today.

Of course, as outsiders we'll probably never know the exact causality relationships between events (did their weak position lead to poor games or did the poor games lead to their weak position, did their weak position force them to quit supporting their games or was that just the poor sales?) but it's certainly true that CtP2 and the support of the game after it's release left much to be desired. Fortunately CtP2 was a very open design and in essence a good game (an unpolished gem is the analogy that springs to mind), allowing us fans to take it to new heights...

Originally it sold roughly equally many copies as SMAC, only slightly more IIRC, but because it's still selling big-time, it must by now have left SMAC far behind it (I haven't seen any recent sales numbers though). I think this is probably a combination of the 'Civilization' name (especially now Civ3 is hot news) and the increased exposure of Civ fans to positive reviews of the game by players (almost everyone who plays modded CtP1/2 like what they see and tell other Civ fans about it).

Yeah, the copyrights issue is really annoying, but it's a good thing we fans aren't bothered by it

Really, the only reason why we need a sequel is to get more people (both fans who make/play mods and professional game designers who can do at least some things much faster/easier than us) involved into the community and to make the game even more moddable so we can change those few things that we currently can't change as well...

Solver · July 19, 2002, 07:44

Locutus - don't scream at the "morons" who play Civ 3, I also play it

.

Activision doesn't like civ... they wanted to make more money with CtP 2, and made it real bad... if they actually finished the game, it would have been much more of a success. You will probably agree that the out of box CtP 2 game sucks. And I feel real sorry for the guys who bought it but aren't accessed to the Internet - or are, but just didn't get to Apolyton. They didn't ever see any the good mods!

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver
Locutus - don't scream at the "morons" who play Civ 3, I also play it

.

I was talking about a very specific subgroup of Civ3 players. As I said, most of such people can be found in OT (but here too it's only a subgroup of all OTers), not in the Civ3 forums, where the average level of intelligence is relatively high and rising (since most of the whiners seem to be leaving).

Quote:

it would have been much more of a success.

I'm not too sure, the slander campaign by those who hated CtP1 and never bothered to even try CtP2 still would have taken place, I think that scared a lot of potential buyers away as well. But of course the fact that CtP2 wasn't too good in itself helped a lot too.

Quote:

You will probably agree that the out of box CtP 2 game sucks.

I agree that CtP2 was not very good out of the box, but it didn't suck either. It was just unfinished. The Apolyton Pack and early versions of MedMod2 showed that with only 1 or 2 months of extra development time, it could have been a very nice and acceptable game. The basic foundation of the game is good, it's just not properly polished and balanced...

Quote:

And I feel real sorry for the guys who bought it but aren't accessed to the Internet - or are, but just didn't get to Apolyton. They didn't ever see any the good mods!

Well, that's why some of us are so busy promoting the game wherever we can, let as many people as possible know that their money doesn't have to be all wasted

Solver · July 19, 2002, 09:02

CtP 2 not very good out of the box? Let me explain why, in my definition, it sucked. It had a very good new diplomatic system, yet the AI would almost never make a proposal. Trade routes required too many of those trade points. Simple bugs.

However, this and some other stuff isn't the worse. What was much worse, is a lack of AI. Let's face it, the CtP 2 AI was even inferior to that of CtP 1... no wonder I beat Impossible level with the first attempt.

Now, maybe if this was CtP 1, things would be different. CtP 2 could be a success, IMHO, given two things:

1) They actually spent another month or two to finish the game.
2) CtP 1 wouldn't get the terrifcally bad reviews and bad promotions.