1.29f PATCH README - Page 6

Blake · July 17, 2002, 22:53

This road thing is rather bothering me

.
I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable.
Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

Jon Shafer · July 17, 2002, 22:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Blake
This road thing is rather bothering me

.
I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable.
Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

Still, the AI might simply build roads everwhere because that's how the AI is programmed... not to react to the commerce bonus, but to the precense of roads in relation to cities. At least, that's how I think it is (easier and make more sense... why program the AI to do something more complicated if the issue will mostly likely never arise?).

Willem · July 17, 2002, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
The patch looks impressive when listed and I can't wait to see it myself. There is one problem though. Does this mean I still can't see all 16 players in the diplomacy sreen? I didn't see that listed as fixed and I'm getting worried because it is a major bug.

You Shift-right click to bring up more than 8, why is that a major bug?

Or are you just being lazy?

DeepO · July 17, 2002, 23:03

Nathan, I too hope it is more complicated than mentioned here in a few lines, but isn't this provided with the random tag (as opposed to pure defense or offense)? If that random property is kept, units can shift from offensive to defensive in game, so fewer problems with offensive MIs will arise. As there have been a lot of complaints on the way the last patch implied that some AIs will never build MAs, I can only guess this should be an improvement.

Of course, you can't expect the AI to behave completely human like regarding the use of their units, but added complexity (when done right) can only mean on improvement, no?

DeepO

Jon Shafer · July 17, 2002, 23:10

Perhaps what Soren meant is that a unit can only have 1 AI strategy working at a time, not at all. That would allow switching between the two, but it can only have one at a time. Can any 'higher-ups' confirm my theory?

Willem · July 17, 2002, 23:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

yes, the Commercial trait was improved for this patch.

and there are a bunch of AI improvements (most of which don't typically get mentioned in readme's as they are quite under the hood), including faster pathfinding and improved AI build priorities (i.e. more knights/cavalry/tanks).

What about the AI using bombard units offensively?

Willem · July 17, 2002, 23:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

EVIL!!!

Can we at least have an option to turn this on/off?

If not... I'm might think twice about this patch.

Why would you want to have it on? It really slows down the turns. I was getting really annoyed with the wait so I turned it off. Then I started getting reallly annoyed not being able to backtrack a turn or two, or start the map from the beginning. Damned if you do, damned if you don't is the way it stands now..

Blake · July 17, 2002, 23:24

I'm not bothered by AI road sprawl. Just the appearences of my own empire.

The_Aussie_Lurker · July 17, 2002, 23:27

My big question for Mike is: does he still consider the Editor to be a "Work in Progress", or does he feel that, with this patch, it's now complete? I, for one, hope that the former is the case!
Don't get me wrong, judging from the readme, this editor looks like it's going to ROCK!! I just feel like there are still a few things missing!

For instance, as others here have pointed out, we definitely need SOME kind of event editor! I was also looking forward to pooled flags for improvements and Wonders. My other big hope was to be able to create building and government-specific units!! Last of all, I really had hoped for the removal of the hardcoding for Cultural victory and movement on Roads and Rail!
Anyway, that said, GREAT WORK FIRAXIS, you have just made the editor an Order of Magnitude better!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

Willem · July 17, 2002, 23:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip

Still, the AI might simply build roads everwhere because that's how the AI is programmed... not to react to the commerce bonus, but to the precense of roads in relation to cities. At least, that's how I think it is (easier and make more sense... why program the AI to do something more complicated if the issue will mostly likely never arise?).

That's not how I'm reading this change. It sounds to me like it will be the same sort of thing as the mining bonus. If you turn it off, no Worker will build a mine on the terrain selected.

It seems to me that they're trying to address the frequent complaints regarding the ugly railroads everywhere, but I don't think this is going to be a very effective way of dealing with that.

At least they're trying, I'll give them that! Still needs a bit of work though, by the sounds of it.

Jon Shafer · July 17, 2002, 23:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
That's not how I'm reading this change. It sounds to me like it will be the same sort of thing as the mining bonus. If you turn it off, no Worker will build a mine on the terrain selected.

It seems to me that they're trying to address the frequent complaints regarding the ugly railroads everywhere, but I don't think this is going to be a very effective way of dealing with that.

At least they're trying, I'll give them that! Still needs a bit of work though, by the sounds of it.

I know, I was only referring to a possible change making it so that roads don't provide a commerce bonus, but can still be built anywhere and provide extra movement.

NeoStar · July 17, 2002, 23:50

I came in a bit late here so I hope this ain't a repeat.

Anyone know about how to assign diplomacy (like treaties, like/dislike) between civs in a scenario? Can this be done, or is it coming in the expansion?

Im not complaining, this patch is brilliant!

Jon Shafer · July 17, 2002, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by NeoStar
I came in a bit late here so I hope this ain't a repeat.

Anyone know about how to assign diplomacy (like treaties, like/dislike) between civs in a scenario? Can this be done, or is it coming in the expansion?

Im not complaining, this patch is brilliant!

We don't know yet.

That's the thing everyone wants to know at this point. Hopefully we'll know very soon.

The Rusty Gamer · July 17, 2002, 23:58

Firaxis,

Will we be able to specify a starting date and date incrementation rules?

NeoStar · July 17, 2002, 23:59

Trust me to ask the most obvoius question

Its all cool though, if there are no such editors I guess you could give yourself a heap of money and pay your way to war!

NeoStar · July 18, 2002, 00:01

On second thoughts, make that heaps and heaps of money. The AI breaks alliances every second turn!

Kri77777 · July 18, 2002, 00:02

I know this has been said, many times, many ways. Merry Chri.... I mean, Thanks for all the support, guys! Cool patch. Just give me a minute to finish my time machine here so I can go foward and get it.

Jon Shafer · July 18, 2002, 00:03

Quote:

Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer
Firaxis,

Will we be able to specify a starting date and date incrementation rules?

Great question, that was one I wanted to ask but kept forgetting about.

*Adds it to his list of questions for Firaxis on Friday if they don't answer in here*

Dan Magaha FIRAXIS · July 18, 2002, 00:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Blake
This road thing is rather bothering me

.
I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable.
Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

If you set the construction bonus to 0 for roads, mines, or irrigation on a given tile, that effectively prevents the constructing of a road, mine, or irrigation on that tile.

Dan

Jon Shafer · July 18, 2002, 00:49

Okay, in the off-chance a Firaxian will answer my questions, I have a few important ones I'd like to ask:

- What editor diplomacy options are there?

- Is it possible to set certain tiles in ownership of a civ without a city being there? (for more realistic borders in scenarios)

- Any form at all of timer or events?

- Will there be a scenario set-up screen like there was in Civ 2 Gold?

- Is it possible to toggle the naming of Elite -> Leader units (currently) to something else, say, Veteran -> Elite?

- Is there an option to set a flat map?

- When you auto-fortify/auto-unfortify, is it for all units or just of one type?

- Is it possible to turn off culture-flipping? (especially for scenarios)

- What things are no longer hard-coded, i.e. "uncovered"?

- How can you set the starting date and date incrementation of turns?

- Will there be scenario objectives, ala "Objective cities" from Civ 2?

- Has the AI been improved to allow it to attack in stacks (rather than whenever it can get a unit to the front)?

- Has the AI been improved to allow the usage of (offensive) Artillery units better?

- Will there be the removal of the 100 turn limit on techs (for long scenarios)

If you don't answer now, I'll have them and more ready in 2 days.

[Edit]The list is growing, beware!

[/Edit]

kring · July 18, 2002, 01:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Flinx

I would have preferred if the diplomatic advisor reminded you that a deal has been in place for 20 turns and there was a option at that time to renegotiate or leave in place for another 5 turns, 10 turns or 20 turns (4 options). Sometimes you can loose a lot on renegotiations, so I don't want to automatically renegotiate a deal where I'm getting 110 gold/turn for my silks but I might want to renegotiate a deal where I am only getting 4 gold/turn for my spices.

I would hope the option to renegotiate would allow you to make a different deal this time if you so desired, or to ask them to keep the current deal.

Blake · July 18, 2002, 01:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS

If you set the construction bonus to 0 for roads, mines, or irrigation on a given tile, that effectively prevents the constructing of a road, mine, or irrigation on that tile.

Dan

Thats really unfortunate. It could be especially annoying with things like mountains, which prehaps shouldn't give a commerce bonus, and also shouldn't allow wheeled units through (without a road, see my problem? ). It seems to me that this only reduces the flexibility the modmaker has

It's also odd, seems to suggest that the intended "primary" role of roads is the commerce bonus, rather than the movement bonus and resource transportation. It's actually silly

.

cbraund · July 18, 2002, 03:19

Why does it seem they're avoiding answering any questions on the diplomacy in the editor?

Could it be they're waiting to surprise us, going to let us down gently or that they simply don't know themselves yet(ie; going to have a go at it today)?

I'm hoping for the first, but it will still be a great patch anyway.

Chris

Wise Ass · July 18, 2002, 03:27

Here's another question for the list

*Is it possible to convert save files to scenario files?

if so this would be an easy way (yet brutal) way to set Diplomacy as you coul play as each civ and set treaties that way.

Also I think that the editor is still being worked on for PTW as there is still a long wish list.

There is something else but I forgot :?

LaRusso · July 18, 2002, 03:38

big news: dan is irish

patch: it's sad to say, but i care the most about fixes and changes of the gameplay, not the editor.... so far it looks great. there were no tweaks to the gameplay, especially ai to ai trading?

NeoStar · July 18, 2002, 03:53

Fixes are good. I can't belive it took this many attempts to get the bloody SAM working!

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso
big news: dan is irish

patch: it's sad to say, but i care the most about fixes and changes of the gameplay, not the editor.... so far it looks great. there were no tweaks to the gameplay, especially ai to ai trading?

Dan IS Irish! I wonder if he follows Gaelic football? Its good, but aussie rules is better!

Avahz Darkwood · July 18, 2002, 04:31

* Editor: Fixed some bugs with players.

Umm how do you fix some bugs with players? And umm do you do referals?

Deathwalker · July 18, 2002, 07:49

Great patch

But one question when we set starting locations can we speicfy which civ will start there ?

sabrewolf · July 18, 2002, 07:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Deathwalker
Great patch

But one question when we set starting locations can we speicfy which civ will start there ?

of course

! until now you could place starting locations, but couldn't allocate WHO starts WHERE (except with a 3rd party tool located in the apolyton files section)

now you can place either the starting cities locations or create the settlers at the appropriate spot (has same effect)

only 28 hours left....
*goingcrazywaiting*
*wrigglingnervouslyaroundinchair*

Adm.Naismith · July 18, 2002, 08:46

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
only 28 hours left....
*goingcrazywaiting*
*wrigglingnervouslyaroundinchair*

Eh, eh sabrewolf

, you are too young to have spent some time in hospital, waiting for your wife delivering your baby, aren't you?

Well, you can count this as a good exercise for the future

And BTW, I was on the same hospital room with doctor, nurse and my wife, during borning of both of my children: I was almost as useless as during AI game turn, while you can see interesting things happening but you can't do much, if not reacting to some pop-up windows prompting!

Just to keep this barely on topic: interesting patch, my hat down to Firaxis's team to have add to it some nice feature.