War Academy: Production After Case Teal

[Inverse Icarus]

case teal's (originally pink) production queue is nearing an end.

in 6 turns, apolyton shall have finished 2 spearmen for the main stack, and it's part of case pink is done with. the turn after, Termia finishes an archer, and it's queue is also empty.

assuming the road network is completed by the time the last archer is built in termina, it will take an additional 3 turns for the archer to reach the rest of the stack.

The entire attack force, 6 archers and 2 spearmen, will be ready to move out in a total of 10 turns.

We must turn our attention towards the production queues for the cities now.

Possible Objectives

• Secondary (replenishing) Army
• Colonization of coquered lands (Settlers)
• Exploring Uber Isle (Galley)

Tassagrad and Banana HQ are building the much needed barracks. They should be allowed to finish.

I would like a second (smaller) army to be created after this, say 4 archers and 1 spearman. After we take Washigton, 1 spearmen and a few archers (maybe 1 or 2) will garrison, and the remaining army will charge New York. the smakller army would meet them and combine after NY falls.

Apolyton and Termina will be producig Spears/Archers every 4 turns at that point, so the small army would take 20 turns to raise, but probably less time, because HQ will have its barracks done by then.

I also suggest we factor in a galley somewhere. settlers could also be put in to fit... i have to go now and cant crunch the numbers.

discuss

[mtgillespie]

Should we not wait until the invasion of america, get mapmaking from the americans when they sue for peace, and build our galley then? We should not slow down our military production before the war, especially as it may be for nothing. Don't forget, we cannot safely traverse the sea, so we may need more than one galley to even reach the far coastline, and we definitely will to safely get a settler across, using Uber's idea.

This is copied from the new land thread.

I think keeping military production on the same level would be appropriate. If, for some reason, our attack on America fails, it would be nice (read: necessary) to have backup forces ready in the event of a counterattack. And if the attack is successful (as we're all hoping), we could use the new forces to help defend any new land we conquer/found.

[Sheik]

We should replenish our army. If we are going to war then we should make sure we are very prepared for anything that may happen.

[Robber Baron]

The temptation, of course, is to say "all of the above."
But we need to prioritize carefully.
A lot will depend on how the first strike fares. If we take a lot of casualties, we will need to frantically build up a second military force capable of protecting our homeland and hopefully regaing the initiative.
Assuming we do take Washington with only 2-3 casualties, my guess, looking over the map, will be that we would want to keep most of the surviving Washington assault team up north to blunt the American counterattack and keep American forces from concentrating south in or below NY. Which means, I think, that we still want to be pumping archers and 1 more spear. Until we sue for peace, I would stay focused on military production.
That's my 2 bits, anyway.

[Papa Chubby]

I agree with the overall sentiment shared by the previous posts, military production should not be halted before the conflict. Though we should leave room for 1, at least, settler to be built. So that we can simply throw him after the invasion force to build a city. We should also wait with aquiring Mapmaking, hoping to get it in the transaction with the Americans, assuming that everything goes as we want it to. Then we could build the Galley as we are prepering to invade the French.

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by Papa Chubby
Then we could build the Galley as we are prepering to invade the French.

Maybe that's the real question here: once we've made peace with America, do we stay in total mobilization mode and move right to the French , or do we delay that attack long enough to be able to divert production for exploration and settlement of the New Land?

Originally posted by Robber Baron
Maybe that's the real question here: once we've made peace with America, do we stay in total mobilization mode and move right to the French , or do we delay that attack long enough to be able to divert production for exploration and settlement of the New Land?

The sentiments in this thread sum up the plans for a possible second war with France. Waiting just long enough to get one settler/galley/spearman trio shouldn't take TOO long, and we could probably get them going before the French get too far ahead of us.

[Kuciwalker]

We should build 2nd and 3rd Armies, as per my post in the Plan Jackal thread. We should also build a Settler and 2-3 Galleys for the Uber Gambit.

[Papa Chubby]

Would it not simply be a waste of resourcess to build such an overkill of such ancient units, essentially deplorable attackers. I thought we were going to go with 2 armies, 2 spearmen 4-5 Archers. I think I read somewhere that that is what UberKraux demands as the minimum task force. After building up the army we could devote more cities to building settlers and galleys and improvements.....etc.

[OPD]

Just a small point.
I think a few more workers will be needed if we don't capture any from the americanas.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Papa Chubby
Would it not simply be a waste of resourcess to build such an overkill of such ancient units, essentially deplorable attackers. I thought we were going to go with 2 armies, 2 spearmen 4-5 Archers. I think I read somewhere that that is what UberKraux demands as the minimum task force. After building up the army we could devote more cities to building settlers and galleys and improvements.....etc.

the 2 armies was trip's plan eagle. i have stated time and time again that we do not have time to build two large armies.

we are going to attack washington with 2 spears and 6 archers. we will only lose 1 or 2 archers on the assault (bananna willing).

the remaining units will garrison washington until everyone is healed.

in the meantime (while the units are healing) i'd like a smaller army to be built up (1 spear and 3 archers MINIMUM). this army would attack NY along with the main stack and combine after it falls.

the way i see it, their capital will probably be boston. from what we see, Philly is all jungle, and NY will probably also be mostly jungle. the capital might escape to Boston after Washington falls, and if it escapes to NY, it will definately be Boston after we take NY.

after that, we sweep back and raze Philly, leavig them with Boston (and any cities they build in the future).

This leaves us with a decent parcel of land we could colonize. we will need settlers shortly after our secod army is up, to colonize the area near philly, ad to secure the dyes/iron to our north.

i fear persia and germany are also looking at that area, so we need to get there fast.

the galley can wait a little, but mind you, it has to be done sooner rather than later.

[Kuciwalker]

I didn't suggest waiting for 2nd and 3rd Armies, just that we build them. They would be necessary if we decide to declare war on France after America.

[Inverse Icarus]

Arvher Armies won't be useful for much longer.

[Ninot]

Just my opinion for submittal to the War Accademy.. France would not be the most juicy target after a war on America, thats MHO. I personally think we should consider Persia, if anyone.

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by Ninot
Just my opinion for submittal to the War Accademy.. France would not be the most juicy target after a war on America, thats MHO. I personally think we should consider Persia, if anyone.

Immortals? Brrrrr.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Ninot
Just my opinion for submittal to the War Accademy.. France would not be the most juicy target after a war on America, thats MHO. I personally think we should consider Persia, if anyone.

Let Bismark have his way with Persia. i'm in no mood for a 4 attack to challenge my spearmen. I'm also agaist fighting Greece, especially with archers

[GoodFella]

We'll need a smaller backup army to be built, like Uber said. We will also need a settler or two to move into the former american territory to fill in our gaps. An extra worker would be nice too. I think we should build temples in Amreica to strengthen our claims there.

The only viable targets after America as I see it now are France and Germany. Germany is too far away for a war against them to be of much use to us now. They are also militaristic, which means we'll probably face a stronger opponent (more units of better quality). France would be the best target, and Germany should be dealt with in the middle ages.

[Harovan]

I think we should build at least 2 settlers, to close the gap of an eventually autorazed city, to take full advantage of the strike. This one city will be at least half productive for now and will be better in the future. And maybe (if citizens agree) we could use one settler to secure the eastern iron. I think we should secure one source, even though the city is completely in the jungle.

Also, to get rid of overpopulation (specialists) in our productive cities, we should consider to prebuild 10 shields and then poprush a temple.

Case Teal will not fail. Usually, nations in the ancient age are willing to talk about peace in about the 8th turn after the attack was launched. Even if we miss our goal (which is highly unlikely), they can not launch a successful counterattack in this time.

[DAVOUT]

I agree with UberKrux' plan ; the american capitole will be taken as soon as it is apolytonly possible, that is when we have the best chances to succeed.

[Torkkeli]

Now, why not build Temples and enjoy the riches of Culture?!!
After all we are behind in culture...

[Guardian]

Originally posted by skywalker
We should build 2nd and 3rd Armies, as per my post in the Plan Jackal thread. We should also build a Settler and 2-3 Galleys for the Uber Gambit.

What, with only 3 or 4 productive cities??
I don't think so.
While we're busy preparing to take more land, somebody else will move back in and settle a good chunk of the land we've already taken. Thus, we're gonna have to take it a second time if we want it, and by the time we've done that and replenished our losses, our archers are going to be up against pikemen and knights...

No, we need to make sure we take full advantage of Case Teal, and we can't do that unless we consolidate our position on that land before somebody else has a chance to come in and steal it from us - which we can't do if we're too busy churning out armies for an immediate second strike.

We need to build a second, smaller army to replenish our losses and help secure our new holdings, but we also need - as Sir Ralph said - to build at least 2 settlers and maybe some temples to keep our development from stagnating. A couple of workers wouldn't hurt either.

I'm not saying we're not gonna need more land, I'm just saying we need to chew and swallow before taking another bite.

[Robber Baron]

Okay, if we do move into consolidation mode (several settlers, a modest resupply of military), does that mean our second war (against the French?) should include a horsemen in significant numbers?

[UnOrthOdOx]

I am also for at least one settler group to head over to Uber Island. Even if it happens to be a small island, it would aid us in the near future as it is not TOO far away to be totally corrupt, and could give us a needed foothold should it be a different continent. I think 2-3 settlers should be produced to consolidate our position, and a temple or two to get culture working, but army could easily fit into the gaps there.

War on France should be assesed after/near the end of this consolidation as the situation could have changed. I would be for beginning to build horsemen after the war, due to their upgrade path as well. Or even a Chariot or two to be prepared for a medieval golden age(there will still be spearmen around...)

[Donal Graeme]

We haven't even attacked America yet, and people are already talking about knocking out France?? !!

First off, something confused me. Sir Ralph talked about getting peace with America in 8 turns. First off, I though this was a war to the knife, and knife to the hilt. (Genocide, essentially). I think that leaving the Americans with any city, except philadelphia, would be a bad idea. We are going to nab Washington, and NY, but Boston happens to be in the best spot of them all. We should build 2 settlers while we are capturing D.C. and NY, and then raze Boston(its poorly positioned). Then move the two settlers in and we have two fairly effective cities.

I think that a war with France at this point would be too much. We have already taxed our resources by going for Lincoln, and frankly, Joan is the most peaceful of leaders. Ergo we want her on her border, and not someone like the Zulu. We should consolidate after Teal, and build up our empire. Then, in the early midieveal, before Gunpowder, possibily vassalize the French. IMO, however, they would be the best of possible neighbors. I think exploration should be our priority, and expansion, so that by the late midieval we are equal with everyone else, and can knock out Bismark.

[Kuciwalker]

Dear UberKruX,

I would like to enlist your support in having Apolyton build several Galleys. I plan to go on a mission of exploration to Uber Isle, but do not yet have the resources to do so. With these galleys, we could even use a strategy you proposed to settle Uber Isle.

Skywalker

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Donal Graeme


First off, something confused me. Sir Ralph talked about getting peace with America in 8 turns. First off, I though this was a war to the knife, and knife to the hilt. (Genocide, essentially). I think that leaving the Americans with any city, except philadelphia, would be a bad idea.

Well, Ralph and others, myself included, are still advocating a mere pruning of America. It is likely that if we manage to take ALL their cities, they will respawn elsewhere on the map anyway. May as well leave them where we can get at them later. Plus, who knows what kind of cash, tech, and cities we can obtain form peace that would otherwise have been lost.

[mtgillespie]

If Uber Isle is currently empty, worse case scenario is that they could even re-spawn there

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Donal Graeme
First off, something confused me. Sir Ralph talked about getting peace with America in 8 turns. First off, I though this was a war to the knife, and knife to the hilt. (Genocide, essentially). I think that leaving the Americans with any city, except philadelphia, would be a bad idea. We are going to nab Washington, and NY, but Boston happens to be in the best spot of them all. We should build 2 settlers while we are capturing D.C. and NY, and then raze Boston(its poorly positioned). Then move the two settlers in and we have two fairly effective cities.

The thing is... you conquer more cities, if you make peace in time. It's very hard to conquer AI cities in the ancient age. As soon as they reach size 2 and are at war, they immediately poprush an archer or a spearman and are size 1 again. Since they have (except the capital) no culture at all, they will be autorazed on capture. Mostly it's possible to capture only the capital.

But, if you hit the AI hard by taking a city (the capital) and (auto)razing another, it will give you most likely a city for peace. A city, that otherwise would have been autorazed if we attacked it, we get for free, without battle. Sometimes even 2! The biggest skill during war in Civ3 is not to fight well with your forces and attack a lot of cities, but to make peace in time, when it is most profitable. Check often the diplomenu during war, see, what they are willing to give you for peace, and if it does not match your expectations, just fight one more turn.

Now, if you leave the AI intact (with 1-2 cities), they will build 2 more cities in the next 20 turns. They are much weaker than you and won't attack, don't worry. After 20 turns the peace treaty expires and can be cancelled. War again, take 1 city, raze one and/or get one for peace, rinse, repeat. Simple and effective. You "grow" into his territory, leaving him with a maximum of 4-5 cities. If you kill the civ too early, you won't get these benefits.

Now, what will you do in the 20 turns you have to wait for the peace treaty to expire? Simple! Pick on another civ. France.

[DAVOUT]

Quite convincing, provided the Germans using our 20 turns of peace do not take what we have left.