Attacker's strength

ramses II. · July 19, 2002, 02:55

The famous German general and strategist Clausewitz wrote , that the attacker's strength should be about 3 times stronger than the defender's strength.
I've found that's a good thumb rule for civ2 - not considering city walls and cities on hills/mountains.
I'd like to hear your opinion. What are your experiences?

Campo · July 19, 2002, 08:01

The current U.S. military doctrine is "overwhelming force". It's not quantified precisely (it's factors that are difficult to quantify in the real world), but I've heard estimates of ten-fold dominance.

Of course a modern democracy engaged in warfare has to limit casualties and win a quick victory, or the people get unhappy.

In regard to Civ 2, I like to attack with cannons against the AI's phalanxes. What's the ratio there?

rah · July 19, 2002, 09:00

Three times is not a bad guideline. But it can be either individual unit strength or number of units. Attacking phalanxs in a city with no walls fortified on a river or forest (defending at 4.5 or 6 if vet) You can go with vet crusaders 7.5 and take them if you have enough. I'll allocate two for every defender so it works out to about 3 to 1 in terms of strength. Or go with vet cats (9) and have a few spares over the 1 to 1.

Obvioiusly it's always best to have too much, since your lose in terms of shields expended will be high, and if you don't take your objective, they're just wasted.

RAH

War4ever · July 19, 2002, 09:09

its too bad the ai in civ doesn't practice the three to one ratio....your lucky if three units attack on the same turn

rah · July 19, 2002, 10:05

Yeah, too bad the AI can't be programmed to delay an attack a turn or two to wait for units to be in position. The only time the AI attacks in strength is when you're on their rail network so all their units show up at the same time. That and the turn after they get cruise missles and you have a battleship in range.

RAH

Six Thousand Year Old Man · July 19, 2002, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
That and the turn after they get cruise missles and you have a battleship in range.

RAH

I agree with everything you said, except for a slight correction - the AI will attack with cruise missiles the same TURN they get the tech. And usually in overwhelming force.

One of my favorite cheats...

rah · July 19, 2002, 11:12

Yes, it is amazing, once I was attacked (the same turn or one after, yeah i had forgotten about the same turn thing) with more missles than they had cities.

But it is fun to send a few vet Ageas with the Battleship to watch the AI waste an entire turn of production on it. Retreat to port the next turn to heal. And repeat.

Starlifter · July 19, 2002, 12:33

Quote:

That and the turn after they get cruise missles and you have a battleship in range.

FWIW, being in range is not a factor on production turns for AI missiles.... a missile can be produced 40 tiles away, and launched from a city of the AI that is "in range" of your BB. Nukes work the same way.... a nuke produced anywhere can be launched from any of the AI's cities as it is created (instant creation on discovery turn).

BTW, the missiles do not follow a ground track, either. They simply appear at their target....

.

Starlifter · July 19, 2002, 12:37

PS, One more thing.... Each AI always knows where your BBs are, even if your BB is in territory it has never discovered yet. It will attack a BB in range of any of it's cities, by producing a CM in any city wich will instantly teleport to the city in range of your BB, then teleport on top of your BB, thus exploring a 9-tile oasis in the middle of a black area....

Scouse Gits · July 19, 2002, 12:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Starlifter

BTW, the missiles do not follow a ground track, either. They simply appear at their target....

.

Yep - I had always suspected that to be the case. You must have spent hours testing these situations

Ming has an extensive list of AI cheats which are in the Great Library at the top of this forum. I can't remember if some of the things you have mentioned are included.

-----------------------

SG(2)

Xin Yu · July 19, 2002, 13:35

That's true. In the Second Front scenario I have to circle my big ships with empty cheap barges (which the AI does not bother to attack). Try sending a BB with 8 empty transports circling it, it won't be attacked. But if you have any troops on board of any of the transports (thus making it a more valuable target) the AI will attack the transport first.

SlowThinker · July 19, 2002, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by SG(2)
Ming has an extensive list of AI cheats which are in the Great Library at the top of this forum. I can't remember if some of the things you have mentioned are included.

I am afraid that some pages of Ming's thread are lost. I think Ming said this in some thread formerly.

Starlifter · July 19, 2002, 16:43

A long time ago, I was playing a random large deity 7p map, and the Mongols nuked a city of min that was over 20 squares away. I'd built SDIs in all cities that were within range of any Mongol city building a Nuke (my spies were keeping an eye on them each turn). I was reallly really really p!ssed when a city went up in a poof that was 16 from a non-nuke making size 1 city of the Mongols. This set me off, and I learned all I could about how their missles worked, including the Cruise. I had suspected they somehow had a Sub supported from a city I could not spy on, and the missile was moved via it.... but that turned out to be a wild goose chase.

The bottom line is that when the AI produces a missile, in can instantly be launched from any city in it's empire, not just the one where it was produced. After production, the missile does not teleport for launching that I have ever observed. But beware production day...... as it is made, all cities are possible launching sites. And this means you must have a 17+ buffer between your non-SDI protected cities and any city of an AI that can make nukes.

I noticed by spying that the AI seemed to have incredible luck spotting my BBs, even in dark (unexplored) areas. Moreover, after attacks, there was no ground track of the CM to my BB. Just an explored spot where it struck.

Oh well. The AI simply plays by slightly different rules.

It is rather humorous when I see people trying to "protect" target areas from AI nukes by surrounding them with airfields... that only works against Human players who are forced to use a ground tracking missile, not a teleporting missile of the AI. If anyone would like to try it, surround your juicy target with Airfields, and the sell the SDI when you know there are war-AI(s) with nukes in range. The AI will teleport the Nuke on your "inaccessible" city and fry it. I've also seen the AI nuke other AIs that have airfields around their cities (I put them there, LOL!). Poof! City nuked..... and nuked with nothing but unexplored terrain around the 9-tile nuked city.

BTW, the Ai only attacks capital ("worthwhile") ships with CMs.

Has anyone ever been able to get the AI to specifically nuke a pile of ships? I have not. I'm of the opinion it is not possible for the AI to decide to deploy a nuke on a ship, or stack of ships, no matter what the value or consist is.