Firaxis! Oceania wants in...

[NeoStar]

I may be alone on this but here goes:

Think about including a civ from Oceania. Looking at other threads I've noticed its not even mentioned despite some blokes talking about having cultures from all around the world.

Of course I'd like it to be Australia but its fine as long as someone gets in there - Fijian, Samoan, Aboriginal (the natives of Australia, European OZ may be only 200 years but they've been around for 40 000).

You get the idea. Something Pacific.

[BeBro]

What would be their leader and special unit then?

[zulu9812]

People go on enough about why America shouldn't be in CivIII, imagine what they'd say about a really young country/ex-penal colony...

[HazieDaVampire]

Some kind of quick warrior, real fast (tracking). But i dunno about weapons!

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by BeBro
What would be their leader and special unit then?

We've got a few candidates for leaders. Special unit? Hmm - well the pacific peoples were big island hoppers so I'd say an advanced galley. The Aborigines had some long range sling shot thing but I can't remember what its called

Originally posted by zulu9812
People go on enough about why America shouldn't be in CivIII, imagine what they'd say about a really young country/ex-penal colony...

Christ, how many times have I heard that dribble? Get over it mate, they were your convicts and most of them had only stolen a loaf of bread!

If it were Australia, easy - the ANZAC. They could be a kind of marine, that's what they did in Gallipoli.

[HazieDaVampire]

yeah, i've heard of that sling shot thing too
They didn't use bumberangs for combat did they, cept for hunting kangaroos! BOUNG BOUNG! COME ON SKIP!

[NeoStar]

Bumberang, eh?

Is that better than hunting with a boomerang?

yeah, i've heard of that sling shot thing too

Really? Nasty character that. Still can't recall the name...

[zulu9812]

You have to make the distinction between Australia as we know it and the country that belonged to the Aborigines. The English turned that land into a penal colony in the 1740s (I think), so it presumbly became independent quite some time after that. And I think it was only called Australia when it became independent. So you'll have to decide if you want to make it an aboriginal or caucasian civ.

[NeoStar]

b

And I think it was only called Australia when it became independent. So you'll have to decide if you want to make it an aboriginal or caucasian civ.

If only it was my decision

This is on the off chance a Firaxian reads this so you may want to skip the following mumbo jumbo.

I want Australia there for obvoius reasons, but compared to the level of civs in the game my nation is hard to call a 'civ', it is young and very multicultural even if 70% caucasian. OZ would be there the same reasons the US is, but I see civs like the Fijians, Phillipians and Aboriginals probably more deserving.

People generally ignore these nations as potential civs because they never went as large scale as continental ones - take the Aborigines, around 40 000 years and changing little in technology terms. There are two reasons for this:

1) The lack of fertile land. Besides Australia (which is very arid inside) there are many tiny islands usually covered in jungle. As a result few made permanant cities and took up a more cyclic nomadic lifestyle (but still retaining their culture).

2) Pacific people never needed to control fire. The theory is that for a civ to advance it needed to start by manipulating fire and while European and Asian nations required this to survive the harsh cold, those living in the tropics used it but never as much.

So technology is not a strong point, nor are grand cities or empires in the Pacific. This said, Civ3 has alot going for it in 'culture' and in terms of that Oceania has a very unquie, developed culture/identity and being one of the SIX areas of the world (yeah I realise most people think that Europe, Africa, Nth America, Sth America, Asia are it) I think it deserves at least ONE representative. Australia, Samoa, Tonga - anyone!

Whew! There, I spelt it out. I wont live and die on this point, Civs a game in the end and a good one to - but someone needed to argue Oceania's case.
Hmmm I suppose I should send that to FIFA too. Maybe we'd get into the 'World' Cup for once

[GoodFella]

I would like to see a southeast asian or oceania civ, like perhaps the Thai or Polynesians. I wouldn't neccisarily be opposed to the Austrailians, but I think there are many many more deserving civs. I would like to see for PtW:

Spain (European)
Mongolia (Asian)
Viking (European)
Carthage (Classical)
Inca (American)
Arabs (Middle Eastern)
Thai (Asian)
Mali (Middle Eastern)

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by GoodFella
I would like to see a southeast asian or oceania civ, like perhaps the Thai or Polynesians...I think there are many many more deserving civs...Spain (European), Viking (European)...

You're right there. Europe's real short of representation, I mean all they have is England, Russia, Germany, France... Just kidding-bring on the Conquistador!

From what's posted seems Spain, Carthage and Mongolia are included. Thailand's a cool place but not representative of Oceania-Polynesians are good though.

[Ribannah]

Polynesia (capital: Jakarta) is high on my wish-list.
If we'll have more expansion packs, I don't see why Australia (and eg Brazil) shouldn't be included either. It's a lot more different from old England than Canada is IMHO.

[NeoStar]

Yeah, everything in the Pacific is very different. Firaxis may avoid it simply because it would make another (the sixth) culture group - eg palace/city/icons.

If they kept with their original five, I suppose Asia would best represent it .... no, that wouldn't be right - maybe south america would ... no, that wouldn't work either.

Oceania is too unqiue!

[GoodFella]

Welll I included Spain and Viking (as well as Carthage and Viking) since it sems that they will undoubtedly be in thew expansion. Other than that I agree that Europe is full and new civs need to be added to fill out the Americas, Africa, and Southeast Asia/Oceania.

Yes, I'm still not sure whether Thai or Polynesia would be better. I said Thai, but could easily accept Polynesia. They could have a Catamaran U.U and they do have those nice drinks with the little umbrellas in them...

[Dimorier Maximus]

I'm thinking you mean Indonesia when you say capital Jakarta? Right?

[NeoStar]

Jakarta isn't the capital of Polynesia, if that was what Ribannah was getting at.

Indonesia is a grey area, it's so big (3rd biggest population in world, hundreds of islands). The only part of it officially known as 'Oceania' is Papua.

[Sean]

Neo-star, don't forget the New Zealand part of ANZAC, mate ;-)
Your right, Oceania is sadly lacking in terms of civ 111. One of the map makers in apolyton made a "oceania" map, yet it was mostly asian!

oh well...

[NeoStar]

We wouldn't have stayed at Gallipoli for as long as we did without you blokes

If you kiwis got in it be the next best thing We'll still be keeping the Bledisloe though

But nothings doing here. It seems like no firaxian's visited. Oh well - at least some people visited and agreed . I guess we can always make our own custom civs...

PS- BTW, I think the Maori's have a case as well if the Aborignes do.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus
I'm thinking you mean Indonesia when you say capital Jakarta? Right?

No, I mean Polynesia.
The Polynesians settled there and created their finest empire.

[Nakar Gabab]

It's been said before, but the Khmer might be a good bet. Close to southern Asia, fills out that area.

In game terms, there might be some problems with Oceania (on an accurate map, since random maps make continental representation meaningless). There'd be a LOT of islands and ocean and not a lot of useable land. Perhaps (on realistic world maps, anyway) So-Pac civs could get a specialized "bonus tech" that gives them early ships (capacity 1, but enough movement capability to colonize quick), and a specialized fishing improvement that grants shields for water squares?

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by Nakar Gabab
In game terms, there might be some problems with Oceania (on an accurate map, since random maps make continental representation meaningless). There'd be a LOT of islands and ocean and not a lot of useable land. Perhaps (on realistic world maps, anyway) So-Pac civs could get a specialized "bonus tech" that gives them early ships (capacity 1, but enough movement capability to colonize quick), and a specialized fishing improvement that grants shields for water squares?

Specialized fishing improvement? That's not a bad idea - I myself was thinking along the lines of more kinds of water resources - even more fish/whales around the Pacific on a 'real map' would do.

We get plenty of marine life around here, not to mention the Great Barrier Reef

[kring]

I will throw in my support, FWIW, to a Pacific civ group, whichever they choose.

There are a number of good prospects out there.

[curswine]

i never knew that the polynesians settle in jakarta oh well but the most well known polynesian city Tamaki (which is the moari name for Auckland) which is the most populated polynesian city
well apart from jakarta but im still not quite sure on that

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by kring
I will throw in my support, FWIW, to a Pacific civ group, whichever they choose.

There are a number of good prospects out there.

On ya kring'o

Originally posted by curswine
...the most well known polynesian city Tamaki (which is the moari name for Auckland) which is the most populated polynesian city well apart from jakarta...

Despite the lack of land (besides Australia, but a large part is bush/desert/rainforest) Oceania all up actually has a fair population - around 31 million. Might not seem much, but its a unique culture/geographic area - and I reckon there's enough civ players

[ScreamingViking]

Neostar:

The #1 thing against any Oceanic civilization is the fact that CivIII does not allow for marintime civs to thrive. There is simply not enough production for the water based civs, barring a whale surplus. In addition, randomly generated maps (my preferred way of playing) could very well locate an Oceanic civ smack dab in the middle of a continent. It IS all random.

Aside from Australia, Oceania will not get much PTW consideration. Besides, if you Aussies got in, you would hear a lot of whining from us Canucks.

Perhaps firaxis should find some way to properly simulate colonization, as to better account for emerging 20/21 century countries like Australia, Canada, Brazil, Mexico, NZ, etc.

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by ScreamingViking
Neostar:

The #1 thing against any Oceanic civilization is the fact that CivIII does not allow for marintime civs to thrive...

I understand that mate but civ's not so big on that. I mean Egypt doesn't get any 'desert bonuses'. After the UU and traits there's little b/w them. If we go that way however, a solution would be a water improvement/early 'rig' or a 'reef' tile. Plenty of reefs around here

Originally posted by ScreamingViking
Aside from Australia, Oceania will not get much PTW consideration. Besides, if you Aussies got in, you would hear a lot of whining from us Canucks.

Perhaps firaxis should find some way to properly simulate colonization, as to better account for emerging 20/21 century countries like Australia, Canada, Brazil, Mexico, NZ, etc.

I know, I know-it wouldn't be too fair. I was thinking of a colonization thing to-would add a nice touch if you could create Dominions across the world. They'd lose unworkable corruption and not have to be managed-so long as they're your faithful allies.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by BeBro
What would be their leader and special unit then?

- a very early (no tech required) primitive ship (carry 1, move 1, coastal tiles only)
or:
- the boomerang througher (1|1|1 (treats all tiles as road)). has attack range of 2

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
...a very early (no tech required) primitive ship (carry 1, move 1, coastal tiles only)...

Hmm-that'd be alright. I was originally thinking a improved galley but a weaker one needing no tech...

Originally posted by sabrewolf
...the boomerang througher (1|1|1 (treats all tiles as road)). has attack range of 2...

Bombarding boomerangs? I can tell you they'd give you one hefty knock but they wont destroy a city temple.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by NeoStar
Hmm-that'd be alright. I was originally thinking a improved galley but a weaker one needing no tech...

well, the polynesians would never even come to map making on the small islands with practically no production. even food is a problem, because coastal cities only provide 2 food with harbors (map making)... they'd have to have at least a small amout of chance to expand?

Bombarding boomerangs? I can tell you they'd give you one hefty knock but they wont destroy a city temple.

uhm... ... well... temples aren't worth anything without priests (or other religion-dedicated people) ... boomerangs could decapitate them... same for army ... no, ofcourse... you're right, forget this

[Immortal Wombat]

Polynesian war canoes. Very cheap ancient-age transports.