Corruption FAQ

alexman · July 23, 2002, 14:31

Here's a FAQ about corruption and waste. Feel free to add more questions (and answers), if you have any.

What is corruption?
You came to the right place! Corruption is the loss of useable commerce in your cities. Commerce lost to corruption shows up in red instead of yellow in the city display.

What is waste?
Waste is like corruption but for production instead of commerce. Shields lost to waste show up in red instead of blue in the city display. Everything in this FAQ that applies to corruption, also applies to waste.

What are the components of corruption?
There are two components of corruption. Distance corruption (DC) and corruption due to number of cities (CC). Each of these components is affected by several additional factors.

What are the factors that affect corruption in a city?
All the factors, big and small, are listed below. DC means that the factor affects distance corruption. CC means that it affect corruption due to number of cities:

Distance from Palace or Forbidden Palace. Does not apply to Communism. (DC)
Number of cities that are closer to the Palace or Forbidden Palace than this city. Does not apply to communism. (CC)
Total number of cities. Applies to Communism only. (CC)
Map size. (DC)
The “optimal” number of cities, for this map size. (CC)
Difficulty level. (CC)
Whether or not the city is connected (by road, port, or airport) to the capital. (DC)
Current government. (DC, CC)
Courthouses and police stations. (DC, CC)
We Love the “_____” Day celebration. Reduces waste only. (DC, CC)
The commercial civilization trait. (CC)
The Forbidden Palace. (DC, CC)

What is the optimal city number (OCN)? What happens if I exceed it?
The OCN is what chiefly determines your corruption due to number of cities. It's not a hard limit. You can have many more cities than the OCN, and still have a productive empire. What matters more is the modified OCN. That is not a hard limit either, but the penalty for adding an extra city after you have already exceeded the modified OCN is twice what it would have been if you were below the modified OCN.

What are the OCN modifiers?
Courthouses and Police Stations each increase the OCN by 25%. WLTK celebrations increase the OCN by another 25%, but only for waste calculations. For Communism, all the above effects are 10% instead of 25%. The commercial trait increases the OCN by another 25%. The Forbidden Palace increases the OCN by 10% (20% for Communism). Republic and Democracy increase the OCN by another 10%. Communism increases the OCN by 20%.

What exactly does the Forbidden Palace (FP) do?
It depends on your government. If you are in Communism, the FP increases the OCN by 20% and does nothing else. If you are not in Communism, the FP increases the OCN by 10% and provides an additional city from which distance is measured for distance corruption. Distance corruption depends on the distance from the Capital or FP, whichever is closer. If properly placed, the FP greatly lowers corruption due to number of cities for non-Communist empires, because it provides a whole new set of cities where the rank in closeness starts from 1.

Where should I place my FP?
For Communism, wherever you like. For other governments, place it as far as possible from the Palace to get minimum number of cities corruption, but still surrounded by a bunch cities to lower distance corruption. If you have your FP too close to your Palace, you will have a bunch of cities that are closer to both the Palace and the FP than some other cities farther away. These overlap cities count against the OCN of both the Palace and the FP, which is bad. Basically, the more overlap cities you have, the less cities you can have in your empire before hitting the OCN penalty.

How do politics affect corruption?
Your choice of government does affect corruption. Distance for Monarchy and Republic corruption calculations is two thirds what it is for Despotism. Distance for Democracy corruption calculations is two thirds what it is for Republic (or 4/9 what it is for Despotism). Communism is completely different. You get a flat 30% distance corruption no matter what the distance. For corruption due to number of cities, you count all the cities that are closer to the Palace or FP than the current one and compare that number to the OCN. Democracy and Republic give a 10% increase in OCN. For Communism you count all your cities against the OCN, not just the closer ones. As a small compensation for this government, the FP increases the OCN by 20% for Communism, instead of 10% for other governments.

Does building a new city affect corruption in existing cities?
Yes, unless the new city is farther away from the Palace or FP than all existing cities, and you are not in Communism. In non-Communist empires, the new city affects corruption in all cities that are farther away, but not in the cities that are closer to the FP or Palace. In Communism the new city affects all cities.

Is there such as thing as a totally corrupt city?
No city can exceed 95% total corruption (rounded down), no matter how many cities you have, and no matter how far it is from the capital.

What exactly do courthouses do?
Courthouses affect both distance corruption and corruption due to number of cities. They cut distance corruption in half, and increase the OCN for their city by 25% (10% for Communism).

What exactly do police stations do?
Their effect on corruption is exactly the same as that of courthouses. So a city with both improvements would have 25% the distance corruption and a 50% increase in OCN (except in Communism). Of course police stations also decrease war weariness.

What exactly does the Commercial trait do?
The commercial trait increases the OCN by 25%. It also gives bonus center-tile commerce, but this is not a corruption effect.

What exactly does the “We Love the..” celebration do?
Besides the fireworks animation, you mean? The WLTK celebration acts just like a courthouse, but only for waste calculations.

Does map size affect corruption?
Yes, big time. It has a direct effect on distance corruption and an indirect effect on corruption due to number of cities. Distance corruption is inversely proportional to the map size (average of height and width). Map size also determines the OCN, which greatly affects corruption due to number of cities.

Does difficulty level affect corruption?
Yes. The OCN gets multiplied by a factor that depends on difficulty level. 100% for Chieftain, 95% for Warlord, 90% for Regent, 85% for Monarch, 80% for Emperor, 70% for Deity.

Do libraries and banks reduce corruption?
No. These improvements increase base income by 50%, after corruption is deducted. The same applies to factories and waste.

Do temples and marketplaces reduce corruption?
They can indirectly reduce waste, but only if you have enough happiness to get a WLTK celebration.

Do I really need to build that road?
I don’t know, but if a city is connected to your Capital by road, harbor, or airport, it gets 15% less distance corruption.

This is all too vague for me. Give me the exact formula for corruption!
Wrong thread. See this thread in the Strategy forum.

I hate corruption! What was Firaxis thinking?
Deal with it. Or go play Civ2.

Use the corruption calculator to examine the effects for yourself.

alexman · July 23, 2002, 15:02

The corruption calculator was attached here until I moved it so I don't have to worry about maintaining it in two places.

BigFurryMonster · July 23, 2002, 15:05

Is the OCN city-specific or is there one OCN for my empire ..?

alexman · July 23, 2002, 15:13

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
Is the OCN city-specific or is there one OCN for my empire ..?

You have one OCN for your empire, but each city has its own modified OCN.

Example:
Standard Map (OCN=16), Commercial Civ, Chieftain

City A has no improvements:
Modified OCN = 16 + 4 = 20

City B has Courthouse, Police station:
Modified OCN = 16 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 28

vondrack · July 23, 2002, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
What exactly does the “We Love the..” celebration do?
Besides the fireworks animation, you mean? The WLTK celebration increases the OCN for its city by 25%, but only for waste calculations.

Alex, great FAQ!

Deserves to be "Top-ped"! Mark?

One small addition to the WLT_D: helps reduce the pollution, too (greatly, I would say, but that is my personal impression only). I know it is not corruption/waste related, I just think people might wish to know.

MarkG · July 23, 2002, 15:53

well, alex could possibly consider posting this in the right thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=34401

vondrack · July 23, 2002, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
well, alex could possibly consider posting this in the right thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=34401

Ahhh... yes, THAT one...

You know, I have never felt determined enough to go reading through it. It is SO huge...

Catt · July 23, 2002, 16:12

Alexman - excellent FAQ.

Takes your previous work from the strategy thread and makes it much more user friendly. Until our recent exchange on corruption and OCN (growing out of the minitourney thread), I didn't fully grasp the OCN for empire versus modified OCN for city (and now, especially with the reply to BigFurryMonster, it is clear for all to see).

Truly a great service to your fellow civvers.

(And I'm guessing an easy response for you to the corruption questions

which pop up every few days - "See this link"

).

Thanks a bunch!

Arrian · July 23, 2002, 16:36

Great job, Alexman.

-Arrian

=DrJambo= · July 23, 2002, 16:42

Does this take into consideration the new improved commercial trait?

alexman · July 23, 2002, 16:51

Quote:

Originally posted by =DrJambo=
Does this take into consideration the new improved commercial trait?

Yes, it does. It also takes into account the newly mentioned doubling of the OCN by the FP in communism, although I have not actually tested either of these changes yet. It's all from Soren's comments.

lockstep · July 23, 2002, 17:09

Many thanks for providing this info. Sounds like a lot of testing.

planetfall · July 23, 2002, 17:43

Kudo's on a clearer explanation. I had one civ down to 2 cities, over 80 tiles apart and couldn't figure out why corruption was not worst. They were commies. Missed that point. thanks.

-PF

DeepO · July 23, 2002, 20:05

Great faq, even if I'm generally leaning towards the 'exact' threads

DeepO

Beeblbrox · July 31, 2002, 14:51

Yeah, I too would like to add my appreciation of the thread, gives a greater undestanding of it all.

Since you posted the link to this after my comment on the stickies thread, I'd like to know if you know something about the effects of my modding solution that I am concerned about.

For those of you that haven't seen the post, I set my OCN to 52 and the OCN percentage to 1000% (effectively removing OCN from corruption calculations while allowing you to build Forbidden Palace at a reasonable stage and leaving what I consider a realistic amount of corruption in the game - for my 256x256 maps that is)

What I'd like to know is does altering these values only affect the player or does the AI get the same benefits? I sincerely hope they do, because otherwise I have been giving myself an insane advantage.

Anyway, nice work again

alexman · July 31, 2002, 15:19

Your solution is a good way to eliminate number of cities corruption while keeping distance corruption the same. I'm not sure if the AI takes into account the difficulty level percentage of OCN when figuring out when to stop expanding though. If it doesn't, then you're in business!

Quote:

Originally posted by Beeblbrox
What I'd like to know is does altering these values only affect the player or does the AI get the same benefits?

The AI gets the "AI default difficulty level" percentage of OCN. If you haven't changed that, it's Regent.

player1 · July 31, 2002, 18:27

Hmmm, it could be a good way to have different corruption for various diffculty levels.
Like puting 200% of optimal for Chiefetain, 100% on Regent (AI will alway use Regent value), and keep 70% at Deity.

What do you think?

Jaybe · July 31, 2002, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
Hmmm, it could be a good way to have different corruption for various diffculty levels.
Like puting 200% of optimal for Chiefetain, 100% on Regent (AI will alway use Regent value), and keep 70% at Deity.

What do you think?

I think you meant it the other way around.
Did you NOT mean to suggest INCREASING corruption at Diety???

I hope this is not another "poor way of stating it" by Firaxis in the Editor.

player1 · July 31, 2002, 18:47

At deity it already incresed. Optimal is 70% of original opimal number (100% at chief).

But,
AI always use Regent vlalue, so he'll have 90% of original optimal.

MarkG · July 31, 2002, 18:50

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

nope, alexman is not ignoring me, actually doing the opposite thing.

alexman · July 31, 2002, 19:05

MarkG:

Jaybe: player1 is refering to the % of optimal cities, not the corruption slider.

Player1: What you propose would make make sense for Regent and below, given the amount of novice players that complain about corruption. I wouldn't change Monarch level and higher, but that's just my preference. I like corruption!

player1 · July 31, 2002, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
MarkG:

Jaybe: player1 is refering to the % of optimal cities, not the corruption slider.

Player1: What you propose would make make sense for Regent and below, given the amount of novice players that complain about corruption. I wouldn't change Monarch level and higher, but that's just my preference. I like corruption!

That's the idea!

player1 · July 31, 2002, 19:16

Original: 100% (chief), 95%, 90% (regent), 85%, 80%, 70% (deity)
Proposed: 200% (chief), 150%, 100% (regent), 90%, 80%, 70% (deity)

MarkG · July 31, 2002, 19:22

alex, search (in this thread) and you shall find....

alexman · July 31, 2002, 19:28

MarkG, so you want me to cut and paste this thread in the FAQ thread? I thought posting a link over there would be the same -- well, at least not the opposite.

I would like to keep this thread going because the general FAQ thread is just that... too big and general! Things get lost in there!

MarkG · July 31, 2002, 19:36

keep this thread but also have a copy of it in the general thread

thanks

Jaybe · July 31, 2002, 21:55

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
keep this thread but also have a copy of it in the general thread

thanks

Mark, I disagree. The core of alexman's information belongs in the (CIV3:FAQ), although perhaps also in the FAQ forum thread.

RedBird · August 1, 2002, 00:45

Is there a way to find your current OCN other than calculating? Same question for map size. I'm playing a game now, and I forgot what map size I picked. I guess I could count squares, but I was just curious if there was an easier way.

(yes, I do feel silly and lazy asking this question)

MarkG · August 1, 2002, 04:52

jaybe, the contents of the civ3 faq ARE the contents of the forum thread. since it is now in the thread, it goes without saying that in the next "synchronization" alexman's corruption faq will be included in the civ3 faq....

notyoueither · August 1, 2002, 04:58

alexman.

Paste your opening post in the main FAQ where you posted the link to here. Keep the link as a line at the bottom to lead people to the discussion of the implications.