The Next Game

[Kuciwalker]

I have some thoughts as to how we could play the next Demo Game much more easily. This is my idea (note: I don't want to implement it in this Game, as it would only creat more chaos now):

First, the Executive Branch is downsized MAJORLY. There is the President, Vice President, and three Ministries.

The President is a lot what he is now. Same for the VP.

The three Ministries are War, Foreign, and Domestic. Each has their own type of aide each of whom is appointed by the Minister and confirmed by vote among the Citizens. War's are Generals, Foreign's Ambassadors, and Domestic's Governors.

The War Ministry is what are now War, Science, and Imperial Expansion. Why War is obvious, but Science and Expansion less so. Expansion is because it is closer to War than to Domestic or Foreign. Science is because Foreign has no place there, and Domestic shouldn't really have it. However, we would need not fear a military domination of our research - they would have to follow the Citizens' votes in the polls. There would be one General assigned specifically to take care of science - sort of like an R&D section.

The Foreign Ministry is what are now Foreign and (used to be) Trade. There is not much to explain here.

The Domestic Ministry is what are now City Planner, Public Works and (used to be) Finance. Also not much to explain here.

One important thing is that all officials have to obey polls.

[Ninot]

Yeah.. about all this talk about the next game.. i dont like it

we gotta think about THIS game. You seem to have a defeatist attitude friend.

if this were 1940's USSR, you would be killed! muwhaahah, wheres Tassadar?

seriously tho, talking about the next game isnt very good for morale around here. We have a great chance at this one.

I agree, let's have a LITTLE bit of faith. What if the attack suceeds? We'll actually stand a chance! And it would be an even greater victory if we began kicking ass knowing that we got the crappiest starting position in the game! Just maintain hope. Have faith in the skills of our well-trained archers, and may the Banana be with us.

[jdd2007]

it definitely needs a few not so small tweaks to work, but i think our current system is fine.

[Mr. President]

I think it's a little - a lot - early to be talking about the "next game".

[Inverse Icarus]

i say we kill him now anyway. i've BEEN saying that for a while.

[Aggie]

I agree that it is far too early to talk about the next game. We should wait to see how this war comes out. Then perhaps there might(I really hope not, but it is possible) be a disbandment vote if we see inevitable defeat. I don't know if there is such a thing but i am sure if almost everybody wanted to stop, the game would end. However this, I believe, WILL NOT HAPPEN, since I think we will win.
Aggie

[Kramerman]

Though it may be too early to talk about, I think skywalker has some good ideas.

[GoodFella]

Careful Skywalker, with all the worker action around Apolytonia lately, its not uncommon for fatal "construction accidents" to occur.

[BigFurryMonster]

Hey - I'll support you! When is this next game due to start ;-) ?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ninot
if this were 1940's USSR, you would be killed! muwhaahah, wheres Tassadar?

That was even lower than Trip. I'm sorry, but...

*SIGH*

Anyway, I think we should start planning right now and I really commend skywalker for doing what hes doing.

I mean, I just played a few games. I had superior weaponry and superior numbers and I lost all my cities.

There is a chance that we will lose this war, and it would definately save us a ton of time if we began preparing for our second game.

[disorganizer]

tassadar: or you. for talking in too big letters ;-P

i would like to add:
only 3 ministers is fine, but there should be "helpers" there.
like mayors, governors etc. to help the domestic leader micromanaging the cities and areas.
like generals for the military department to help organizing discussions, polls and decission making and planning.
this would add to more ppl getting involved into the game with less workload on the ministers.
you could imagine a whole hierarchy in the departments. the leaders only accumulate the information of the next lower level.
the essence of this information will be brought to decission making in the chat.

[DAVOUT]

If another demo game has to be organized, the discussion should be held on another forum. It is incongruous to divert the Apolytonian citizens' attention from the dramatic events which are expected to happen in the very next hours or days.

[civman2000]

good ideas, but lets not start one until we lose this one ...

[Harovan]

We won't lose this one.

[disorganizer]

davout:isnt this a free country to discuss what you want? even off topic?

just my 10cents to your comment ;-)

[jdjdjd]

Originally posted by UberKruX
i say we kill him now anyway. i've BEEN saying that for a while.

Now, I'm not saying that something's going to happen on our voyage, but lets just say skywalker will be off on this voyage with us on a small boat, with no one who'll talk around and who knows what could happen.....




oops, did i say that aloud or just think it?



just kidding, of course, skywalker

[wervdon]

Your ideas are sound if your sense of timing isn't skywalker When the time does come though, I wouldnt try to force science into military where it doesnt belong just because it doesnt belong with the others even more so. Other than that, it looks good.

Now just bring it back up in 6 months or so.....

[Papa Chubby]

I think your suggestions have merit, but if we have as big a population as in this democracy game then maybe having a bigger staff will help. It would involve more people in the game, hopefully keeping people attracted to after the first night. Though I´m sure people will cross that bridge when they come to it, until then lets enjoy the game we are playing.

[mtgillespie]

Skywalker, i know you've had a habit of jumping parties here, but jumping demo games is just going a bit too far

[Kuciwalker]

Disorganizer - You obviously didn't read my post carefully. I SPECIFICALLY mentioned Governors, Generals, and Ambassadors.

Everyone else - No, I was NOT suggesting we start a new Game. I was putting forward ideas for the next Game.

[disorganizer]

sky: i must appologize for the mistake. i overread it. as i have obviously still problems with the apolytonian language.
one point to it though:
governors should be appointed, as this position is more powerful than is seen at the beginning.

[Kuciwalker]

Disorganizer - It's fine. I'm sorry if I came off a little angry. I don't understand, though, why Governors being more powerful than one would think is a reason for making them appointed.

[Spiffor]

skywalker : in your idea, is the domestic advisor the one in charge of domestic trade ? (Trade minister had this ambivalence between foreign trade and internal trade, that's why I felt it was better to merge it with finance)

[disorganizer]

sky: governors have the last word about build queues and citizen moods. i would bet the domestic leader will soon have other things to worry about. they really "run" the country.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by disorganizer
davout:isnt this a free country to discuss what you want? even off topic?

just my 10cents to your comment ;-)

It is not a matter of freedom IMHO, but of organization ; on the basis of freedom, would it be acceptable to open a thread on Railroad Tycoon ? On the same ground, it seems to me that the right place of this thread is on the General Civ3 Forum rather than on this forum where a game is being played.
As for the incongruousness, would you mind if the etiquette competes sometimes with freedom ?

[GePap]

While it might be too ealy to speak of the next game, I think Skywalker has every right to mention his ideas at whatever point. I compleely agree with a much smaller cabinet (though I would have 4 mininsters, War, Treasury, State, and Interior, not 3). I would also include the court for constitutional matters, and a Senate, which would make in game policy (not decisions about how we play the game, but IN the game. examples?: A bill appropirating 3 workers for just road work, calling for a certain road to be built between X and Y by a certain date, calling for a balanced budget, or a minimum balance in the treasury, or a law mandating a minimum of 2 defensive units er city, so forth. In this way, citizens would have more resposibility, and participation in the actual playing, while still giving the cabinet the power of every turn actions (while following congressional restrictions) [damn long parentheses ]

I am far more radical than Skywalker in that I think such a system should be implemented soon, within this game, even if t means a whole new consitution (they change over time). Why wait, and whats to stop us but ourselves? Wil the system we have work, in the sense of getting throught the game to victory? Yes. BUt is it the best system we can have? I personally don't think so.

[Kramerman]

I wasn't sure from the earlier conversation, but were you talking about a governor for every town? That would be a great idea, from a role playing perspective. All the citizens are in the main city to begin with, then once a scond city is founded, half the demo game pop goes there. Then the populations of each city can vote for a governor who would have control, unless ordered to do something specific by the demestic advisor. The different cities can then vote for senators and representarives to represent them in a national congress, ontop of the national positions, like justices, ministers, and president/VP. This would foster fun, but constructive rivalry between the citieis, like which one was the first to build a library, which city is the biggest and most developed, which is the best all-round. Every city can have their own roster of residents and stuff, and people could move from city to city, if they want, i guess. This would definately require sub-forums though, so the different cities dont get mixed up with other cities' affairs. It would be kinda like a state level and then a federal level government. But, I dont think thats very likely to happen... just a fun thought, I guess...

But just for fun, there would be a two house congress, representatives in a number proportional to each cities' population (civ population, not real people/demo game pop) and a senate made of a specific number of senators from each city. there would be a court, like the one we have now, and ministers like skywalker has described, but i would personally prefer a seperate science advisor, so their is no military bias for research - though im not particularly upset about that. Governors could have polls on what their residents want to build, and then ministers and stuff could have polls for citizens on the national level. The main purpose of the congress would be to authorize funding for anything (i.e rushing a project, buiding embassies) and also for passing 'laws' (things that aren't ammendments). But perhaps senators in particular could be the ones to represent their cities in the turn chats - to make them more efficient and orderly (this would make senatros quite a bit more powerful than representatives). The general public would still have its voice in polls on both city and federal levels, and also would be needed to pass amendments and other things. I haven't really thought this through, Im just kinda writing as it comes to me. But this would definately allow for much more people to be more heavily involved on the game, and allow for more fun all around, i think. Just some fun ideas for next time, whether thats soon because we get our ass kicked, are a longtime from now because we rise victoriously...

Kman

[Kuciwalker]

No, disorganizer, I don't understand why that means they SHOULD be appointed.

[GePap]

Kman: while a legislature fixed around each city might be hard to work out, you do get my point: that the legislature becomes part of the game just as much as the cabinet, and that in it, all citizens, not just ministers, get to make game decisions, even if for most people it will be indirect. Again, I think we have too many ministers with overlapping jobs. The reason i think we have that is because originally, people only wanted one ruling body, but saw the need to involve a fair number in it, so they created a bloated cabinet. I think this was the wrong way to go. multiple gov. branches, with different jobs and roles, but equally involved in the gae, would be more fun for everyone, and could be more easily manipulated to deal with changes, both up and down, of the citizenry particiapting.