Getting the GA

[Iskandar Reza]

I don't like getting it early. I prefer getting it in the industrial or modern age. But most times through my build actions or my wars I get a GA earlier than that.

How do I manipulate the conditions so that I won't get a GA until the time is ripe?

[Jaybe]

Choose a civ that does not have an early Unique Unit.
Be aware of the ramifications of what great wonders you build.

Considering that your Golden Age is purely a "bonus", I take it as it comes. Sure, you don't get much if you are still a despot, but wonders or the use of your UU is generally more important. You could always build few of your UU and hold them for when you want your GA, but that could prove counter-productive.

Civ is not always about doing things "perfectly". It is more about what you do with the situations handed to you. Shades of grey with the silver lining, and visa versa.

(Not much help, was I).

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by Jaybe
(Not much help, was I).

Nope, but your advice pretty much sums up all life's ups and downs.

[NeoStar]

America or Germany

GA at the perfect time...

[sabrewolf]

ancient time is too early, because mostly your cities are too small and there aren't many.
modern times is too late because production is high anyway.
my favorite time would be in the second half of the middle ages (cavalry replacements, maybe knight or musketeer replacements)

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by NeoStar
America or Germany

GA at the perfect time...

Because of the panzers and the f15s

[DeepO]

America is a lesser choice, but then again, you'll probably trigger it anyhow by building or capturing the great wonders.
As to the rest of the comments: a early middle age GA can be very powerful, if used right. ancient ones are less good, but if you think you'll get one mine unshielded grasslands, and hills. This will at least do you some good, as the shield bonus is either not capped, or just diminished by one (a mined hill in despotism still nets you 3 shields) The same is of course true for the bonus resources, like cows...

DeepO

[Willem]

Originally posted by NeoStar
America or Germany

GA at the perfect time...

Not necessarily, in the case of the Americans. There's a couple of early wonders that could set it off. Pyramids and Colossus I believe.

[Matt_G]

Originally posted by Willem


Not necessarily, in the case of the Americans. There's a couple of early wonders that could set it off. Pyramids and Colossus I believe.

Yes you're right. I like to play as the Americans quite a bit. Unless I have a great coastal city that the Colossus will really benefit, I won't build it. Pyramids and Copernicus times the GA perfectly with this civ, IMHO.

[Arrian]

I prefer an early to mid-medieval GA. Japan and China both have useful medieval UU's. Egypt is a good one if you don't mind deliberately avoiding the Pyramids. Egypt's UU can either be used for a war of conquest driven by a GA, or held until later to pick off a wounded unit. Religious/Industrious wonder combos: colossus/hanging gardens, colossus/great wall (though I can't imagine wasting the shields on the GW), HG/Sistine, HG/Bach... or, for a late-game explosion, how about triggering a GA by completing Hoover? Heh.

Some people like the GA early, some like it late. Early can set you up for the rest of the game. Late can put you over the top. Depending on the civ, map conditions, and difficulty level, I think the best GA timing is between the late ancient and late medieval age.

-Arrian

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by Willem


Not necessarily, in the case of the Americans. There's a couple of early wonders that could set it off. Pyramids and Colossus I believe.

That's no good-but then again Colossus isn't too important.

I'm thinking the GA will be crucial in multiplayer-usually just take it as it comes against the AI but with a human opponant...it'll win or lose you the war.

[DeepO]

Colossus not important? That only depends on difficulty level, on the higher levels it is one of the only wonders you can actually build without spending a GL on it. And it can be a very nice wonder: loads of culture, and a money and science city up until the start of the modern age. If built at the right city, the colossus can be huge.

DeepO

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by DeepO
...If built at the right city, the colossus can be huge.
DeepO

Exactly.

I agree, on Deity its a 'freebie' but to get what you talk of you need the right city and you usually have little choice around the time its available. I still see it as a non essential wonder - not like the Great Library, Leonardo's Workshop etc.

Worth an early GA (if thats your civ)? I say not unless you're in trouble.

[DeepO]

Well, all depends on the situation of a particular game, of course. But before we mix things up: on Emperor and above it is close to impossible to build the Pyramids, which means that the Colossus will not trigger the American GA. Further, it is the only wonder that you have a decent shot at, therefore becomes much more important as in the lower levels.

The great library also gives a lot of culture, and is of course better what the effect is concerned, but this too is impossible to build (without a GL). Which makes the Colossus the only wonder that can provide you with extra science, making it very strong. And you can use the extra cash as well

Good cities to build the Colossus: well, any city close to you capital with a river is perfect. Cities with a few bonus food resources and loads of sea are also nice, you need much commerce, nothing else. If you start in the middle of a continent without rivers, forget about it.

DeepO

[NeoStar]

Interesting DeepO, maybe indirectly the Colossus has more to it. If I do build it I usually never look for these things, I suppose my style is too warlike...

Originally posted by DeepO
...on Emperor and above it is close to impossible to build the Pyramids... The great library also gives a lot of culture, and is of course better what the effect is concerned, but this too is impossible to build (without a GL)...
DeepO

Dont completly scare off people from trying emperor+, you can still sometimes get early super cities that make wonders.

But you do usually need early wars-the GL is a lifeline. The GA is good to, but on deity I'll take it almost anytime besides ancient

[Cort Haus]

It's possible to win without even having a GA, and all eras have their possibilities, but I'd vote for the Middle Ages as optimum time for one -under monarchy or republic with all those desirable wonders around, but some civ/single wonder combinations trigger it early. Eg Pyramids for the Egyptians, Lighthouse for the English.

So this means a despotism GA for the English when playing an archipelago Lighthouse strategy but the decisive power of the Lighthouse if exploited (land, resources, contact and *trade* across sea) outweighs the shortcomings of the despot GA. (btw - Commercial's boost is noticable on my latest game and Liz's starting techs make the English OK for this strat )

I've had late GA's with Egypt and the Hoover Dam which were fun, but I think by then it's the gold & science which give the most benefit, rather than the shields.

The one I'd like to try with Egypt is building Pyramids while beelining for monarchy. Get monarchy before the Pyramids are built and you're in business.

Another thing about Egypt - not only can you save some WC to trigger a GA far beyond the unit's usual shelf-life, but I swear that in one game I could still build WC even after cavalry, as long as I'd not yet had the GA.

Finally - about the Great Wall.

I've always assumed it to have no real practical value other than GA-triggering, but after long ago seeing the Lighthouse get laughed out of town, I decided to try and base a strat around it and it worked. I'm tempted to take up the same challenge with the GW .

Maybe rampaging barbs on a large pangea with about four civs could be a starting point ...

[Solver]

My favorite GA time surely has to be during the Middle Ages, preferrably after Education. Middle Ages provide lots of improvements and Wonders to build, so a Middle Age GA can hardly be wasted - I'll then possibly speed up completion of Leonardo's and Copernicus's, get those Universities in place, maybe Banks if those are already discovered. Simply put, the Middle Ages provide so much stuff to build, the speed up will certainly give you an upper hand.

Probably the only case when I like an early Golden Age is with Persia - getting much more Immortals in field then, generally enough to obliterate a civ.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Another thing about Egypt - not only can you save some WC to trigger a GA far beyond the unit's usual shelf-life, but I swear that in one game I could still build WC even after cavalry, as long as I'd not yet had the GA.

This is always true, starting from 1.21f I believe. If you didn't had a GA yet, your UU will stay available. When you trigger it, the UU will vanish if there is a upgrade available (e.g. longbowman instead of bowman).

and Neostar, I definately do not want to scare people away from Emperor, but there you have to make choices... one of which is that if you go for a relatively peaceful game, you can't have all the wonders, especially not the early ones. I did build all middle age and later wonders except Sun Tzu (missed by a few turns) once, and one of the strats to get that was a perfectly timed GA, and Colossus... it lets you out research the AIs in the early medieval era, instead of the late one.

DeepO

[Jethro83]

I have no single universal favourite time for a golden age. It depends on the civ I'm using.

For example, if I'm using the Aztecs, Persians, Iroquois or anyone else who has an early UU, I would be using the golden age to crank out more of those Immortals, Jag. Warriors, Mounted Warriors, etc. and do a clean sweep of the whole continent. True that you don't have that many cities, and too strong an infrastructure at that point, but that hardly matters when you're the last one standing on your continent, and you've got enough forces so that you're not stretched too thin when your settlers fill the gaps.

If I'm using the Chinese, Japanese or anyone else with a middle ages UU, I can either choose to crank out more and more of this unit, or divert to wonder and infrastructure building, or both.

An Industrial/modern UU golden age, given by units such as the German Panzer and American F-15 are also well-timed. While production is already high enough at this point to be cranking out a tank every 2-5 turns in your high production cities, being able to crank out one every 1 turn is even better. A late industrial to moder golden age to me similar in many ways to mobilization, without the strict penalties imposed on your construction options.


It is as said above, that you simply need to be able to use what you get, when you get it to full effectiveness though. I at first found it shocking when Leo's Workshop triggered my golden age for my German people when I was preparing myself for a late golden age. However, I managed to obtain the Sistine Chapel and Smith's Trading Co. and catch up with my military after being hopelessly stretched thin in my wars against Russia and America.

[Solver]

Yeah, just a small tip: in some situations, mobilization during the Golden age might be useful - at least you'll cranck out double the number of forces you otherwise would.

[Barchan]

Originally posted by DeepO
If built at the right city, the colossus can be huge.

[Arrian]

Solver,

I had a game where I was in my golden age and I mobilized... only to find that my output dropped out of GA levels. I admit that I don't recall exactly, but I think the GA had a few turns to go. It seems, based on this one experience, that you can't get the GA and Mobilization benefits at once. Can anyone confirm or deny?

I too think the Colossus is a nice wonder to have. I play on standard maps, and that's definitely part of it. The bigger the map, the less important 1-city wonders are.

I think that it's best to have your GA pre-railroads. Why? Because of the relative boost. A grassland square w/mine has 1 production, or 2 if it's a bonus square. In your GA, this increases to 2 and 3 (a 100%/50% increase, respectively). If those squares were railroaded already, they would produce 2 and 3, and go up to 3 and 4 (a 50% and 33% increase respectively) in a GA. There are more things to build in the Middle Ages, and that extra shield per tile means more. In the Industrial Age, with RR's, an extra 12 shields (or maybe more if you have hospitals already) doesn't necessarily mean much, unless you can get several cities over 100 shields per turn.

-Arrian