This is what happens when you don't get HG on deity

[ravagon]

Question(s) from a non MPer.
How exactly does double production work? Does it double all resources? Before or after the effects of roads/rails, etc? How does it affect food/trade caravans and how is it different from just modifying the yields of different terrains? (And am I asking too many questions? ).

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by HappySunShine
Ok smart, if you insist on such stupidity so be it. I will take HG and you can have pyramids. This should be amusing. Talk to Oedo and Woke before you accept this though. They'll probably have some very good words of encouragement for you.

Lets start from the dirt then. Deity x1x1....you pick the barb level.

[Ming]

Originally posted by SmartFart
Lets start from the dirt then. Deity x1x1....you pick the barb level.

Well... we know what that will be... He hates surprises that might disrupt his strategy

[SmartFart]

Don't get me wrong. I just said Pyramids are my 1st thing to do. If I can get both HG and P I'll take it,but that rarely happens.

I have new ICQ# and I lost all my contacts on old one. You included. New # is in my profile. Drop me a message when find some time. I am eager to cross sword with penis flayer.

(sorry for my spelling...english isn't my native)

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Pyramids, especially in Eyes love of 2X, do truly suck.

Slowwhand,you really don't have an idea of what are you talking about do you?

[HappySunShine]

"Again... please describe one strategy that can't be done at Deity. you can leave your cities undefended, you can create explorers, you can create trade routes, you can go to war... It might be harder, but you can do it."

HAHAHA!! Stupidity amuses me. You can leave your cities undefended? Amazing...of course I assume you're referring to leaving them undefended once you have bachs, mikes, and HG and are in republic. And of course leaving cities undefended later in a game is stupid, leaving them undefended early in the game is genius and takes a great deal of skill to do it properly. But since we both know you can't leave them undefended early in the game I guess your statement is just that, stupidity. I'm pretty sure I explained why explorers on deity are not useful, maybe you should stop drinking so much and actually read. Sure you can go to war...after about 3 hours. Harder? Certainly not, just much much slower. There is nothing hard about deity. Throwing down temples and using warriors for martial law is not difficult. Leaving your cities undefended and "feeling" your defense is on the other hand is very difficult. My defenses are done on feel, yours are forced and your settings forces everyone to defend. Is this another example of the greater strategy in deity? I've said many things that don't work on deity, you tell me one thing unique that does. And due to a bug, you can leave your cities undefended after about 20 with HG without having any unhappiness until size 3. Putting a warrior in the city any earlier actually causes more unhappiness. So while you guys are defending all your cities and building temples I'll be leaving my cities undefended and experiencing massive amounts of expansion without ever having to worry about happiness. You tell me how you're going to be able to match something like that. And don't tell me you're going to go republic and get mikes. Even if you did somehow get mikes first you'd have to give up all your expansion and that's basically giving me the win.

Smart I don't use ICQ. If you want to set up a time we can meet in the apolyton chat room or on the zone.

[rah]

Originally posted by HappySunShine
Smart I don't use ICQ. If you want to set up a time we can meet in the apolyton chat room or on the zone.

Proof that you've never played a game with me.

[War4ever]

no, he used to use it...in fact used to have a program which allowed multiple numbers to be loaded up at one time.....never did tell me exactly what this program was....so i can't quote it for you...

[rah]

I used to see his name on-line since his name is in my directory. But until he tells me a name and a number that he used for us, I ain't buying it.

[Ming]

Originally posted by HappySunShine
"HAHAHA!! Stupidity amuses me.

Your ranting and raving has amused all of us for a long time now

You can leave your cities undefended? Amazing...of course I assume you're referring to leaving them undefended once you have bachs, mikes, and HG and are in republic.

Shows you have no clue what you are talking about. People leave there cities undefended at the start of the game, just like you do on levels lower than deity... again, no difference.

And of course leaving cities undefended later in a game is stupid, leaving them undefended early in the game is genius and takes a great deal of skill to do it properly.

Yeah... tons of skill. You play villiages only, and on island type maps. It sure takes a lot of skill to do that properly.

But since we both know you can't leave them undefended early in the game I guess your statement is just that, stupidity.

As I said, I see people do it all the time at Deity... so whose statement is stupidity

I'm pretty sure I explained why explorers on deity are not useful, maybe you should stop drinking so much and actually read.

Well, you have posted a bunch of garbarge how you can't support explorers and how it costs you expansion at deity, but that is no different than on any other level.
Just because you rant and rave about a topic doesn't mean that you have actually made any sense.

Sure you can go to war...after about 3 hours. Harder? Certainly not, just much much slower.

Maybe you should take some lessons on how to run an offense on deity early in the game... it's obvious you haven't mastered that skill yet.

There is nothing hard about deity. Throwing down temples and using warriors for martial law is not difficult.

And there is nothing hard about spitting out settlers either... your point? You play strategies that are appropriate for the settings you are using.

Leaving your cities undefended and "feeling" your defense is on the other hand is very difficult. My defenses are done on feel, yours are forced and your settings forces everyone to defend.
Is this another example of the greater strategy in deity?

And your settings make it easy to feel the defense since you minimize early contact... is this YOUR example of strategy at lower levels? Again, there are different levels of defense used by people at deity... which is indeed a stategy.

I've said many things that don't work on deity, you tell me one thing unique that does. And due to a bug, you can leave your cities undefended after about 20 with HG without having any unhappiness until size 3. Putting a warrior in the city any earlier actually causes more unhappiness.

This is the only thing you have ever mentioned that might be considered unique... a bug.

So while you guys are defending all your cities and building temples I'll be leaving my cities undefended and experiencing massive amounts of expansion without ever having to worry about happiness.
You tell me how you're going to be able to match something like that.

Only because you play on those wimp settings of "villiages" only... and on maps that limit contact. Brilliant strategy...
When you don't have HG, you have the choice to cram a bunch of units down the persons throat that has it. If you lose the city with HG, your game is over...

Plus, you make it sound like you only "you" know how to expand... Any player with average levels of skill knows how to do massive expansion at deity without HG...

And don't tell me you're going to go republic and get mikes. Even if you did somehow get mikes first you'd have to give up all your expansion and that's basically giving me the win.

I guess your limited playing skills won't allow you to understand how you can both expand and build a wonder at the same time...

So after all this, I'm sure your response will be "you're stupid" or "you're a moron"... that's your typical response to everything. And then you will type a couple of hundred words of crap that doesn't really say anything... which is also typical... And then you will beat on your chest, say you're the greatest... and that people that don't play on the settings that maximize your style of play are idiots, newbies, or some other insult... We've seen it all before from you.

Maybe if you stopped the ego and insults crap, and actually posted an intelligent and civil response, people might take you more seriously.

Oh... and I really do hope you do well at tennis this year.

[atawa]

Originally posted by Ming
Only because you play on those wimp settings of "villiages" only...

Care to explain why huts is for wimps??

The only thing it does is reduce the luck factor in the game.

[HappySunShine]

"Shows you have no clue what you are talking about. People leave there cities undefended at the start of the game, just like you do on levels lower than deity... again, no difference."

Leaving your cities undefended means that your city will be getting mad at size 2. My idea of leaving a city undefended is never defending it until late game. Your idea of leaving a city undefended is build a warrior and then moving it out of a city and then throwing another 1 on it. Now if you're trying to tell me that you leave your city undefended at size 2 in the early game then you're just plain ****ing stupid.

"Yeah... tons of skill. You play villiages only, and on island type maps. It sure takes a lot of skill to do that properly."

I hate island maps. Are you stupid or what? I play all land small maps. That has got to be the most ridiculous statement ever.

"Well, you have posted a bunch of garbarge how you can't support explorers and how it costs you expansion at deity, but that is no different than on any other level.
Just because you rant and rave about a topic doesn't mean that you have actually made any sense."

Wrong again. On 2x2x the explorers get a movement rate of 6. On 1x1x it is only 3. That means that it's pretty much impossible to take an undefended city on deity. And since the science takes longer it's not worth it to get them. I am capable of going straight to invention without getting monarchy, but is it actually useful and worth it? Obviously not. If you can't understand this then there is no point in you posting here anymore. And since you've never written any articles on strategy you have no real right to talk to me anyways. And since you're obviously stupid I'll point another little thing out to you. On 2x2x the expansion is double and the cities grow faster. That means that you won't have units taking up production as support. However on 1x1x 1 explorer and 1 warrior in a size 1 city takes up 1 shield thus decreasing the productivity by 50%. If that happens on a 2x game at best the production is decreased by about 15-20%. And since you're so smart and so good at this game you must also realize that if you're going to build an explorer and make it useful it has to be built quickly, building an explorer when the city is a size 2 is useless. And since you must have 1 warrior in the city to keep it happy you are already behind by 2-3 turns of production. Now if you can't understand this then there is absolutely nothing that can be done for you.

"And there is nothing hard about spitting out settlers either... your point? You play strategies that are appropriate for the settings you are using."

Actually there is. And it's obviously not your strong point judging by some of the saves I've seen. Perfect expansion and city placement has depth. Building a temple is just a click of the button. And as I said before, you play 2x1x on very small maps, how could you ever begin to talk to me about expansion?

"Only because you play on those wimp settings of "villiages" only... and on maps that limit contact. Brilliant strategy...
When you don't have HG, you have the choice to cram a bunch of units down the persons throat that has it. If you lose the city with HG, your game is over...

"Plus, you make it sound like you only "you" know how to expand... Any player with average levels of skill knows how to do massive expansion at deity without HG..."

Your idea of massive expansion and my idea of massive expansion are obviously 2 different things. But you are a rookie so that's understandable. Your idea of alot of cities is 20. My idea of alot of cities is 70+. Did I ever say I don't know how to expand without HG? I said that the expansion with HG is so far greater than without that it's impossible to match it. Again, your lack of intelligence is showing. But you chose to moderate a forum and spend massive amounts of time browsing it for no gain so I guess I don't really need to point that out.

"Maybe you should take some lessons on how to run an offense on deity early in the game... it's obvious you haven't mastered that skill yet."

This coming from the guy who plays 2x1x. Now if you'd like to teach me a lesson on 1x1x deity then we need only set up a time to play. So when is it best for you?

"And your settings make it easy to feel the defense since you minimize early contact... is this YOUR example of strategy at lower levels? Again, there are different levels of defense used by people at deity... which is indeed a stategy."

I play 2x2x all land small maps. Are you that stupid? Do I really need to go into the validity of your statement?

"Only because you play on those wimp settings of "villiages" only... and on maps that limit contact. Brilliant strategy...
When you don't have HG, you have the choice to cram a bunch of units down the persons throat that has it. If you lose the city with HG, your game is over... "

Markus couldn't "cram a bunch of units" down my throat on king with Lighthouse and suntzu and me having no capital, what makes you think you could do it? You defend with cities, I defend with units. You obviously don't understand the difference between the two. On 1x1x there is no way in hell you'll be able to kill me with units. By the time you get enough to cram them down my throat I'll have tons of cities and 100% more production than you.

"I guess your limited playing skills won't allow you to understand how you can both expand and build a wonder at the same time..."

ummmm...I play all settings and I dominate on all settings. You play how many settings and dominate on them? Yeah, ok. Maybe you should sit back and shut the **** up.

Now since I have just responded with the typical insults and "you're stupid crap", you have to decide whether or not to ban me. If you don't ban me, then you won't be doing your job as a moderator. If you do ban me, then all the years of these kinds of posts to other people where you didn't ban me would make you a hypocrite. You will then appear as the moderator who only bans people that offend you personally. So on the one hand we have your job, on the other hand we have your reputation and your past decisions.

[oedo]

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by HappySunShine
Even if you did somehow get mikes first you'd have to give up all your expansion and that's basically giving me the win.

That I would really like to see. I usually get Mike when I want it.

I'll be around next few hours. If we miss each other I'll be available on sunday same time.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by SmartFart


Slowwhand,you really don't have an idea of what are you talking about do you?

In 2X, if you need Pyramids, then it's you who doesn't know what you're talking about.
Better use of time and resources in 2X than Pyramids.

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by SlowwHand




Better use of time and resources in 2X than Pyramids.

Like what? Pyramids increases your resourcessuck ability by 50%! Considering trade and everything. And that alone makes them most powerful wonder indeed. It's a pure math. Skill is how and when you're going to use it. I am still lacking in that.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by HappySunShine

Markus couldn't "cram a bunch of units" down my throat on king with Lighthouse and suntzu and me having no capital.

Is this true Markus. I guess I would have to know all the details of the game before I comment but it seem amazing that you couldnt win with that kind of advantage.

Originally posted by HappySunShine

Now if you'd like to teach me a lesson on 1x1x deity then we need only set up a time to play. So when is it best for you?

Does that offer go for me too? I don't know if I "would teach you a lesson" but I certainly would like to play that game. I propose a best of 3 or 5 so there is no b1tching about starts.

[Dank]

seems like a fair offer......but come one DD.....you know he won't play it........he's just like Stratking.......likes to talk more then play......and hell.....King is a friend of mine!!!!!

[atawa]

Originally posted by SmartFart


Like what? Pyramids increases your resourcessuck ability by 50%! Considering trade and everything. And that alone makes them most powerful wonder indeed. It's a pure math. Skill is how and when you're going to use it. I am still lacking in that.

In 2x2x king its not very usefull as most players will get rep in 2650, after that the only thing you have to do to celebrate your city's to size 8 is to build a temple and put all workers in the water.

The only reason to build Pyramids in those games is if you're planning on building SOL and go commie or fundi.

[oedo]

in 1x1x pyramids is also not very powerful. people use to get republik in about 500 BC and do exactly the same as they do in 2x2x. I absolutely have no clue in what settings pyramids can be a somewhat useful wonder.

[DrSpike]

I like pyramids in 1x deity duels. You tend to go rep later than in MP and pyramids has some time to speed expansion and get more cities to celebrating size. Also, pyramids complements HG well. Of course SF builds pyramids really early, so you don't get both there, but I'm content with HG.

[HappySunShine]

Actually pyramids is extremely powerful. I think all of you talking about how useless they are goes to show just how far the skill level has sunk. When I got a 3310 rating on gameleague it was because I went pyramids very early, like 2500BC or earlier. It's actually better to get pyramids, suntzu, great wall, and then go for the happy wonders on 2x2x King. However on deity 1x1x getting pyramids without HG means that he's relying on martial law and temples. Which means he's giving up alot of expansion and settler building. Yes he'll have bigger cities, but he won't be able to keep up with someone who has HG and builds nothing but settlers. On a small map HG becomes even more important because the guy with HG can basically go all out military and expansion. By the time the other guy gets Mikes it will be too late. Pyramids and HG combined on deity very early is pretty much unstoppable. Even without mikes your expansion rate isn't hindered by unhappiness. Plus alot of people dont' realize that Bachs is in alot of ways better than Mikes. Bachs is 2 free citizens content which means that bachs+ a cathedral is more powerful than just having mikes. Yes a cathedral is expensive, but HG, pyramids, and bachs combined more than makes up for any cost of cathedrals. What I usually do in deity games is get those 3 wonders and anything else I can get quickly, do massive expansion very fast. Like 50 cities by 1AD, then go republic and celebrate/buy all the improvements for the cities. The result is alot of very large cities very fast. And of course you should never ever stop building cities for the entire game. There should always be some sort of expansion occuring until you hit the city cap. HG is just too powerful, and if you ban it from your game it makes the game too slow.

[War4ever]

good stuff eyes...i agree about pyramids and HG

[Ming]

Eyes'....

A rational discussion...

That's what we like about your posting... information instead of ranting...

I'll trade comment's on your response to mine later... but good stuff here

[arii]

I think that the real power of the pyramid is not that it takes half the amonunt of food to grow your city pop by 1 but when you build a settler. The city that produces the settler recovers a lot faster from the pop lost and then is able to produce a new settler a lot faster.
So for people that crank out settlers to expand very fast it is a very powerful wonder.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by Ming
Eyes'....

A rational discussion...

That's what we like about your posting... information instead of ranting...

I'll trade comment's on your response to mine later... but good stuff here

Originally posted by war4ever
good stuff eyes...

Isn't it amazing that when Eyes finally post like a normal human being he gets 12 thumbs up and complements.

It reminds me of Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper just before Poland was invaded.

Anyways Eyes my offer stands. Strat wouldn't take it will you?

[HappySunShine]

Why would I play you a deity game for fun? The only reason I'm playing deity is to prove that deity comes down to who gets HG first, and who gets HG first comes down to land. That is the only reason I'm playing it. I don't see what beating you would prove. You're not a top tier player, you're not a "known" player, and your settings have nothing to offer other than about 3 hours of tedium.

And while pyramids does allow faster recovery, on deity when you start building cities they get mad at size 1, then -1, then -2. With HG, you're assured of happiness without even having to build temples or defend. It actually hurts you to have pyramids after a very short period of time because your core cities will start to become very large and even with a temple and 3 units they'll still get mad. Either way you'll be trying to keep up with your growth and happiness rather than pouring all your resources into units and settlers. Any way you look at it pyramids without HG will lose.

[Deity Dude]

As I expected - an excuse not to play.

[HappySunShine]

I already told you. I don't just go play any rookie that challenges me to a game. If you want to play you're going to have to put something more on the table. I'm only going to play smart because he says he can win without HG. Do something similiar and I'll consider playing you. You also have absolutely no reputation on here and you haven't beaten anyone good. So you tell me why I should play someone who is unknown on a setting I hate simply for fun? What do I get for beating you? So as I told you on the zone, fill out the application and submit and I'll get back to you in a few days. Please understand that you aren't the only applicant and that a reply may take as many as 10 working days.

[Deity Dude]

LOL - so whatyou're saying is - I'm not good enough for you to play BUT if I give you the Hanging Gardens then you will play me.

Just some more Eyes logic and another smokescreen to avoid the game(s).

You want something more. How about this.

Best of 5

I host (I've heard a little about your rep when you host)

No restarts - you quit you lose - play with what you get.

Loser doesn't post on this forum for 6 months ( thats includes psuedonyms)

Accept or Decline - please no weaka$$ excuses for not playing though.