When the Soviet Union comes back. - Page 10

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Severn
Brainwashed?

Hardly. Brainwashing is what gives us political correctness. Brainwashing gives us people who think the united states had no effect on the second world war.

Brainwashing give us people who think that USA was the major force which defeated nazism during WW2.

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
K19 was kewl

WTF did you smoked today Sava?

JohnT · July 29, 2002, 23:05

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
Well the "communist experiment" had as its initial aim the betterment of the appauling living conditions of tens of millions.

So I can certaintly see that such a goal is noble.

Perhaps they would've done better if they would have focused on the appalling spelling of some peoples.

Such a goal might not be noble, but it still is worthy.

DinoDoc · July 29, 2002, 23:06

I have to agree with your assessment, Sava. I'm amazed that they were able to survive thier predicament given the substandard equipment they had to work with.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:08

Serb, that's why their called "Allies". Of course the US didn't defeat Nazism on its own. But it was a huge part of that victory. You are gravely mistaken if you think otherwise. But the Russians did just as much. Especially in stopping the Nazis at Stalingrad. Had Hitler gotten to the oil fields in the Caucausses, the war might not have been over in 1945. And the outcome would not have been as decisive. It was a team effort, folks.

Krayzeenbk · July 29, 2002, 23:09

Quote:

Really?
Can you prove that it was overthrown by POPULATION?

I can almost prove it wasn't.....

In the days of liberal, honest, and corrupt leadership (1990), around 90% of the populations of every remaining republic in the USSR were against the dissolution of the union. Their leaders were another matter.

If you don't know the history well, don't argue about it.
Many people have said the same things (including me) about how the coup in 1991 worked and who was who, but every once in a while new facts (hopefully they're facts

) come out in Russia and you have to change your understanding of everything.

1991 wasn't people rising up against the USSR.

It was the elite fighting each other...

Ever seen the images of those tanks in Moscow, with the people trying to stop them? Those were General Lebed's tanks, supporters of Yeltsin. Not one of the people trying to stop the tanks knew that they were on their side, nobody understood what was going on, not even Yeltsin himself.

But in the end the elite was discredited, and with it the entire Soviet Union. So all everyone else could do was just mop up and go their separate ways. You can't just replace the entire leadership of the USSR after 9 days of near-civil war.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:09

smoking? what? me? never!

... it's just pencil shavings officer!

JohnT · July 29, 2002, 23:10

I don't think the word "overthrown" is correct, but Communism did die worldwide... it just did so by apathy, by non-belief, by the decision of the populace to, well, not care anymore.

Apathy has destroyed more ideologies/religions than guns ever will.

Now I'll stop rambling.

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:12

Ouch,

you didn't smoke today?
Are you trying to say that your statement had sense?
Please explain to me what do you mean when you said"K19 was kewl "?
I'm confused.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:14

the movie was kewl... the one with Harrison Ford...

JohnT · July 29, 2002, 23:14

Maybe Sava climbs mountains?

DinoDoc · July 29, 2002, 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
Please explain to me what do you mean when you said"K19 was kewl "?
I'm confused.

He means that he liked the movie. I'm somewhat suprised that you haven't heard of it.

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Krayzeenbk

I can almost prove it wasn't.....

In the days of liberal, honest, and corrupt leadership (1990), around 90% of the populations of every remaining republic in the USSR were against the dissolution of the union. Their leaders were another matter.

If you don't know the history well, don't argue about it.
Many people have said the same things (including me) about how the coup in 1991 worked and who was who, but every once in a while new facts (hopefully they're facts

) come out in Russia and you have to change your understanding of everything.

1991 wasn't people rising up against the USSR.

It was the elite fighting each other...

Excellent.

This is exactly what I was mean, when asked this question.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:19

I climb mountains just like you go ass spelunking, johnt.

JohnT · July 29, 2002, 23:23

Uh, I guess that means you don't?

Btw, why the attitude?

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
He means that he liked the movie. I'm somewhat suprised that you haven't heard of it.

But why he said it here? What about this movie? (In Russian cinema the headlines usualy different)

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:25

Sava you should better smoke tobaco instead of sh*t you are smoking now.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:25

I said it here because it's irrelevant, and I enjoy spamming

"K19" the movie, is an adaptation of the events of the K19 submarine (which I'm sure you're familiar with). It was a good movie, although I'm sure there are inaccuracies.

chill, Serb

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:35

I didn't saw it.
And if you show me one, single Hollywood movie which is accurate, I'll buy you a drink.

DanS · July 29, 2002, 23:36

"And if you show me one, single Hollywood movie which is accurate, I'll buy you a drink."

I'm afraid that Hollywood is no good at documentaries.

Serb · July 29, 2002, 23:43

That's why I offered a free drink to Sava.

DinoDoc · July 29, 2002, 23:46

www.k19movie.com/
There's some info about the movie for you.

Sava · July 29, 2002, 23:47

Are you telling me that Hollywood movies aren't real? OH MY GOODNESS!!!

Saras · July 30, 2002, 02:27

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso

oh 'forest people', the 'friends' of jews and 'enemies' of fascists

What the **** was that?

Serb · July 30, 2002, 03:06

Ahtung, Partisanen!!!

Ya chestno govorya tozhe ne ponyal, no silno smahivaet na svoego roda zalupu ili naezd.

LaRusso, virazhaisya po ponyatnei please.

Kramerman · July 30, 2002, 03:22

K19 was a great movie

Communism: On paper it is perfect. In reality, as long as people are self interested - which is human nature- and want to serve themselves more than a society, then it wont work well. A democratic communism would have a better chance of working well than a totalitarian one.

Capitolism: In its purest form it is harsh, and unlikely it could last long before being overthrown do to the rich oppressing the poor, though with a little socialism mixed in, it WORKS. It works because its engine runs on human nature of greed and materialism (or, IOW, wanting a better life) - which nothing is wrong with this as long as it doesnt bring harm to another. This is why laws are needed not just for society, but also to regulate, to a light degree, big business, but not regulate them to much. A balance is necessary for top efficiency - i believe in theoretical economics there are mathmatical equations and stuff for this - but not sure.

Kman

Saras · July 30, 2002, 06:10

LaRusso - chujepliot i chujesos

Serb · July 30, 2002, 06:16

Nu zachem zhe tak grubo Saras?

Mozhet my ego prosto ne tak ponyali? Vot poyavitsa i vse obyasnit.
K tomu zhe on serb!!! a my serbi dolzhny derzhatsya drug druga.

(nu ne to chto by ya na samom dele serb, no kakoe-nikakoe otnoshenie imeyu

)

Krayzeenbk · July 30, 2002, 09:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman
K19 was a great movie

Communism: On paper it is perfect. In reality, as long as people are self interested - which is human nature- and want to serve themselves more than a society, then it wont work well. A democratic communism would have a better chance of working well than a totalitarian one.

It's not perfect on paper, it can't be written on paper. It's perfect in the mind of the person who tries to contemplate it.

The word human nature is useless. Human nature can be changed (by you yourself if you give it a shot). The word human nature is just an excuse, a way for many people to rationalize things they haven't bothered to understand.

Democratic communism is both redundant and wrong at the same time, totalitarian communism in an oxymoron. After all, you think the communists in Russia called themselves totalitarian? Communism isn't a government, it's a way of life.

Communism starts in the person and it will work well if you make it work well, whether your rulers are letting you vote or sending you to Siberia. It's just that if they're sending you to Siberia, then they are not communist.

Most ideally you wouldn't even have any rulers at all, then everything above wouldn't even matter.

As a side note, communism can also be different depending on how you look at it. You could call America more communist that Russia ever was, and that is not a bad thing (I don't mean oppression and limiting of rights, I mean closer to the what we take as our ideals, whatever they may be).

No answer is clear, no answer is right though so it's pointless to argue about it.

Ok there's my rant for the hour

Ecthy · July 30, 2002, 09:25

Cto delat'?