What do we do now ?

Spiffor · July 28, 2002, 18:05

Vicotry is ours. Case pink is done, and our empire has more than twice more cities than 6 turns ago.
We have reached a threshold, our survival is not immediately jeopardized anymore. The war against America was a necessity everubody deemed vital. What we have to do now is much less obvious.

First, do we need a next target ? This question has merit, since we are now as large as other Civs, and a builder strategy can seem viable, even if weak. Are we sure not to be big enough already ?

Should we have a next Target, who should that be ? France, who are our only friends with the Aztecs ? Germany, which will make us a far fetched empire once settled ? Persia, and their mighty immortals ? The answer is not obvious... Diplomacymongers wouldn't like killing our only friends.

If we are to attack foreigners, when will we do that ? Will we try to attack with archers once again, or do we wait for our Iron, meaning we'll have to road all the way to Ubergorsk ?

If we are to attack with swordsmen, what will we do in our cities meanwhile ? Temples ? Barracks ? Courthouses ? Wonders ? Galleys ? Again, this isn't a question to take lightly.

GePap · July 28, 2002, 18:14

Much like Greame's thread. I'll be egotistical and self-centred and say that my thread is already doing this

Anyway, to answer the question: we need several turns of internal improvments and growth, road building and so forth un til we can begin to think about our next war. Lets remember that the Germans and Persians are far away, the Greeks have hoplites and are #1, and the French have horses like we, (horsemen) and may get Iron much earlier than we.

Spiffor · July 28, 2002, 18:17

I don't know if we should attack next or not. With my own strategies, a 9 cities- sized empire will be enough for builder policies until lte medieval, but I don't play at emperor level.

But I'm sure we must manage peace until we have a swarm of swordsmen. Rome has Iron already, meaning the AI is beginning to buildup units. France and Persia will have Iron in very little time, and France already has fewer places to settle (ie, they're more oriented towards building units).
So, we should road to Ubergorsk as soon as posible with our army of workers, but it will take quite some time. In the meantime, I sugget we build temples everywhere : we need a good border continuity, and we need culture, if we don't want be too late in the race. Our income allows building temples everywhere without problems.
In the cities where a temple has already been built, I suggest we build at least 2 galleys ASAP (in case one sinks). A quick settler would also be fine to fill the gap north of Munich (a cultural assimilation of Munich would be great long term)
A sure thing is that we need to stop producing archers and spearmen in our core cities : peace has made new archers completely useless, and spearmen won't be required until war is declared again. I don't think we should pay for spearmen now, when we could pay for temples, which must be built ASAP for the sake of culture.

kring · July 28, 2002, 18:23

Consolidate what we have, connect all cities with roads and any unconnected resources as well.

Spiffor · July 28, 2002, 18:25

About this, we could buy a worker from Abe for 28 gold. I strongly suggest we do this : we have 509 gold, and an industrious worker won't be too much in the undertaking that awaits us.

OPD · July 28, 2002, 18:30

Damn is there anyway I can move my post to this thread.

Instead I will just sumerize.
First may I say from the pic the empire is looking very fine.
ok priorities. This is only my opinion but
- get some spearmen to defend new cities.
- a few more workers to sort the land out (only a few)
- Uber isle
- attack the French.... best option I'm afraid and IMO we have to attack some one.
- and attack with horsemen not swords
- also I'd like to see some discussion about a possible palace jump.

GePap · July 28, 2002, 18:37

We should build a harbor, probably in apolyton, to allow for foreing trade, since we will have an extra dye around, and to get more food out of oue whale and fish.

trickey · July 28, 2002, 18:38

Great ideas everyone

. Temples are a very good idea. Expanding our border would let us know of any attacking force sooner, and could possibly get us a free city or two. I think internal defence should also be up near the top of our things to do list. We need to get roads connecting all of our cities, and get our cities well fortified, then begin a building stage. we should also have a stack of 5-6 horsemen for a quick and mobile counter-attack, should war be declared on us. I fended off a group of about 10 immortals with 5-6 horsemen and a few swordsmen, simply by using my horseman's speed to hit them, before then hit me. After this group of defenders is established, we should start a building process.

Im not sure if we have the income to accomplish this, but if we did, i think it would be a pretty decent stratagy.

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2002, 18:53

why did you black out the boxes? shoulda just hit the "delete" key above the arrows.

Epistax · July 28, 2002, 18:56

Lets use process of elimination. List everything that might be good for Apolytonia, and then strike down bad choices (such as attacking hoplites (sp) or immortals).

I am still all for sending a single settler accross the ocean to uber isle. If it is indeed an island, it would serve us well to claim the area before a rival does, due to its location. If not, then we can launch or continent into the age of global communication (Japanese, Chinese, Zulus [with cruise missiles]).

Of course the MOST immediate thing we need is roads.

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2002, 19:06

as i am not the city planner, i should not say anything.

but since we dont have a city planner, i can rant

We currently have 2 completely undefended cities (Philly and Atlanta) that need a spearman/warrior garrison at the very least.

There is a spearman en route to Philly, will be there in 3 turns. I suggest Philly start building a temple (it's not goign to grow too much).

Since we are at peace, a spearman can be diverted from our main army now having a victory party in Gaia. There is another Archer/Spearmen en route to Gaia, there in 2 turns. The spearman from that army could be used to garrison Gaia itself.

that puts all newly acquired cities with a spearman.

I suggest that Bananna HQ finishes it's spearman (2 turns), and fortifies it. We could send one warrior to Gaia or Del Monte for a garrison. (we have an archer in Del Monte that should rejoin his compatriots.

Apolyton should also complete it's spearman (3 turns) to use as a garrison.

Tassagrad now has a spearman in it, which will fortify next turn. It's garrison is completed and it's currently building an archer. It already has a temple as well, so the "cultural" portion of it's development is done for now.

that leaves us with the following possibilities:
Galley - Useful for exploring Uber Isle / transporting troops
Archer - Continue our current Army plans
Horseman - Fast Archers, more expensive
War Chariot - Fast Archers, same price, but useless against jungle ridden France
Harbor - Useful for trading with distant nations
Settler - Duh

Termina has a garrison but no temple. i suggest we build one.

OPD · July 28, 2002, 19:16

Just a small point
how about pop rushing the spearman in atlanta?
its a 2 w/o a unit so an entertainer is currently taking up all the food.

Aggie · July 28, 2002, 19:53

OPD personally I would save the pop rush for temples there in atlanta and philly( and maybe the other captured cities). As uber said we have sufficient force at the moment to garison these cities, and with joan I don't see her starting a war so 1 spear in phi will be enough. We have other spearman being built and by the timewe have finished this round we will have good garrisons. I would like to see us build a galley to see if uber island is worth going to also.
Aggie

Epistax · July 28, 2002, 19:55

I like territory being in our side of the line. I also don't like territorial gaps between cities. I'm not sure what my main beef with them is. A temple in every city is one of my primary concerns, and on this difficulty it's most important.

Spiffor · July 28, 2002, 19:58

I think we should wait for the spearman to arrive in Atlanta, and the second citizen will become productive. I also strongly suggest we make the citizen in Gaia work, because she doesn't need to entertain herself.

Edit : UberKrux :
I blackened the boxes, but I've done so on several screens (this picture comes from several max. zoom screenshots pasted together). I felt too lazy to make it look correect on sea

notyoueither · July 28, 2002, 20:05

Good job guys!

Jon Shafer · July 28, 2002, 20:14

What we need to do right now: develop our current cities, build up a defense, and explore new areas. Another war will be very risky unless we have Swordsmen, and in the meantime we can get more done at home.

July 28, 2002, 20:37

There are two main strategies we could follow here:
1) Build a hell of a lot of settlers, increase our military size, and expand before the other civs (such as Germany, Greece, and Persia) get their grubby mits on the good land.
2) Increase our military size, conquer another civ (probably France), and gain cities that way.
If we follow #2, we could follow it with #1 down to Abananaba Minor, and meet the Russians/Romans in their lands. However, the best strategy to get us into the early part of the Middle Ages is probably #1 (later followed by #2), so that we don't get too bad a reputation for constantly declaring war. Anytime we do implement #2, our first priority should be to finish off the Americans.

Epistax · July 28, 2002, 20:41

The only neighbors we have that are viable for attack are the Germans and French. Greece and Persians simply aren't options until later.

Last time I checked, germans did not have resources. They might actually prove to be a better target than the French, however expanding that way would give us the following borders: France, Greece, Persia, Aztec, (remaining Germans and Americans)

Ninot · July 28, 2002, 20:45

My personal preference is to clear this jungle. Once we do, we have a LOT of grassland, dont we? That will ensure much prosperence into the future.

As for more war.. war is all and good, but Persia would be a hard foe, and France is our #1 trading partner. I favor a nice period of peace for now

notyoueither · July 28, 2002, 21:05

Settler... settler... settler. Fill in those blanks before the Greeks and Germans do.

War with France later.

We should build a city right next to Chartres (just on the far bank of the river from Termina) ASAP.

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2002, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
I think we should wait for the spearman to arrive in Atlanta, and the second citizen will become productive. I also strongly suggest we make the citizen in Gaia work, because she doesn't need to entertain herself.

Edit : UberKrux :
I blackened the boxes, but I've done so on several screens (this picture comes from several max. zoom screenshots pasted together). I felt too lazy to make it look correect on sea

if you hit the "delete" button (under insert) the boxes go away

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2002, 21:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
My personal preference is to clear this jungle. Once we do, we have a LOT of grassland, dont we? That will ensure much prosperence into the future.

As for more war.. war is all and good, but Persia would be a hard foe, and France is our #1 trading partner. I favor a nice period of peace for now

to quote the alien frmo independence day...

alien: "peace? no peace."

president: "what do you want us to do?"

alien: "die... DIE..."

:: president doubles over in pain ::

Ninot · July 28, 2002, 21:41

... but in the end, the President helps to blow up a space ship! sure.. he loses his wife, but thats no big loss.

an immediate war now cant be very helpful, in comparisson with cutting down the jungles and getting more cities in time for a future war with future units.

and to quote another movie....

"E.T. go home"

and another movie...

"You must saaaaaaave us."

wait, do these have relevance?

Jon Shafer · July 28, 2002, 22:06

Ninney, we won't be able to clear the jungle until much later. If we focus on clearing the jungle (a big job, needless to say), then that will distract us from other more important matters, i.e. filling in the remaining space with cities, building up our armies, etc.

Ninot · July 28, 2002, 22:07

Tripper, we need the jungle cleared sometime, and cities filling up that space will be useless if we dont.

building up armies should take a back seat to development untill we hit the middle ages.

Donal Graeme · July 28, 2002, 22:14

I think at this point we should be concerned with a period of rapid expansion of our borders via culture and the founding of new cities. At this point our works should busy themselves with just connecting our cities, later we can clear the jungle.

edit: But clearing the jungle comes before a military build-up, until knights that is.

edit: Oh wait, did I just bump somebody else's thread, the topic of which I already addressed? Doh!

Jon Shafer · July 28, 2002, 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
Tripper, we need the jungle cleared sometime, and cities filling up that space will be useless if we dont.

building up armies should take a back seat to development untill we hit the middle ages.

If we don't expand somehow, then we'll be left behind by other cultures like the Aztecs and the Persians. Starting to focus upon clearing the jungle will allow other civs that don't have to clear any jungle to expand to gain a huge lead on us. We're on Emperor... by the Middle Ages we'll be a punching bag for any large civ that wants to come by and beat on us.

Ninot · July 28, 2002, 22:30

so you want another war? then what about the cities we have? they stay backwards. And there will always be another civ that is bigger untill the jungle goes down.

MrWhereItsAt · July 29, 2002, 00:21

I think it's time to REX and settle all the good city sites around, especially as many resources as we can get (Incense Valley, Ivory Coast). When they get the chance, make sure our current cities have at least temples, thus there is more of a chance that we needn't waste too many early settlers on the crap jungle - with some luck we can let the other civs take a little of it if they wish, and we should get a few with our culture, provided we're quick enough with building it up. With luck we can long term perhaps take Munich through culture - one of the only priority jungle cities should be near the dyes N of Ubergorsk (how DID we manage to get that Iron first?)

If we don't acquire such cities through culture, then they will be waiting just where we can easily reach them in a future war. Any cities they build there will be effectively useless until coal/rubber, and we just need to make sure we can take them one way or the other before then.

I do think that we need to keep improving our land - but starting with an emphasis on the new American lands, as we could groom some of these to be settler and worker farms - with them up and running early on, we can shift our strategy to building up what we have in Apolytonia itself, whilst repatriated Americans work better lands to the NW.

Or are the strategies that have worked for me somehow inapplicable here?

Remember our priority until now has been to survive by carving out a bit o' land of our very own. We now have the opportunity, we just need to take said land - in reality this is our priority now, as an extension of the objective of the American War itself!

Once we have cities and resources/land, we have options and can start the bickering. We have neither right now, so let's go get them so we can start arguing!