AU102: All we're sayin' is give peace a chance - Page 2

alexman · July 30, 2002, 20:24

It was crashing the first time it had to ask you what to build (and suggest a defensive unit to you).

If you clicked the "always build previous unit", it never had to ask you what to build after you built a scout.

The new map is almost ready...

alexman · July 30, 2002, 20:42

OK, I replaced the savegames. Sorry about the screw-up...

I changed the Legionary into a very expensive Warrior, available only to America. Please don't use it as a pre-build for Wonders!!

Theseus: There is no simple way to make barracks unavailable to Americans but still available to others.

Theseus · July 31, 2002, 00:50

Man, this new start is a tough decision... I spent 5 minutes thinking about what to do. For once I wish I knew the capitol were at least somewhere near a coast.

I'm gonna do the first few turns, and go to bed.

Thank god we chose expansionist though.

alexman · July 31, 2002, 02:56

Hmmm... I'm playing standard AI and it's pretty easy so far. The Yanks rule when there's room to expand!

*SPOILER*

It's 570 B.C. and we have the highest population, the greatest land area, access to 4 luxuries, and are just switching to Republic. Still haven't found India, China, Germany.

Harovan · July 31, 2002, 03:16

I hope this works for me. I can check it only at evening. I always have trouble to get replaced attachment files and always get the old version

, there seems to be a very annoying proxy on the way from me to Apolyton.

FrustratedPoet · July 31, 2002, 07:34

This is a very interesting game.

I'm playing the 'Killer AI' version. It's going quite well so far.

I was struggling to keep up in the tech race early on, but I've recently changed to Republic and now am in a much stronger position.

I'm nowhere near the biggest Civ of course, since I'm not allowed to conquer the three civs to the north on my continent. In a 'normal' game I would be fairly dominant now I think.

Nevertheless, I'm catching up in tech and score all the time, all the other Civs are either Polite or Gracious towards me and I think that if I stay peaceful a diplomatic victory is very possible. Staying peaceful is the real trick of course ...

I don't have any of the wonders so far, which is pretty poor I think and may cost me (I've had one city flip to those damn Egyptians!). I'll have to make sure I build the UN, because I'm not sure I'll qualify for election otherwise. Tricky...

I've attached my score table in 510AD, I'll move ahead of China soon because I've been catching them quickly since I changed to Republic. India's isolation and France's awesome culture will prevent me from over-taking them, I think, so the victory is gonna have to be Diplomatic.

FrustratedPoet · July 31, 2002, 07:35

Addendum:

I'm running Luxuries at 30% on the slider and have Spices, Gems, Incense and Furs (IIRC). I have had no problems with city uprisings (except when changing government of course).
I'm also making 20+ gpt and haven't built all the marketplaces yet, so between that and the luxuries I have a lot of stuff to trade for tech.

The game hasn't crashed on me at all. Thanks for fixing that alexman.

Harovan · July 31, 2002, 12:20

Alexman: Could you please repost both savegames in a new post? I keep to download the old versions, when attachments are overwritten

. Or, if you don't want to repost them, could you send them by email to sirralphSPAMTRAP@gmx.com (remove the SPAMTRAP, of course).

alexman · July 31, 2002, 12:26

I just sent them. No need for everyone to flood Sir Ralph with e-mails

Harovan · July 31, 2002, 12:29

Thanks, that was quick

. I'll take a look later this evening. Now going out minigolfing with my colleagues. Ought to be fun, as there seems to be a huge storm approaching

.

Aeson · July 31, 2002, 14:20

I just had a city culture flip to me. I take it that the free legionaire should be disbanded outside of a city?

My game is going well so far, got a Settler from my second hut, so tried to nab all the wonders I could. I missed out on the Lighthouse and Great Wall, have all the rest.

I'm a little worried about my silk city, as it's pressing up against an Egyptian one... I may just give it to the Egyptians if their city doesn't flip to me soon. I can always trade for the luxury, it's not worth risking a war over. Right now I have 3x the culture of anyone else, in a Republic, and have a 1 1/2 tech lead.

Of course all of that could change very quickly if the Iroquois or Egyptians declare war.

dawidge · July 31, 2002, 14:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
I just had a city culture flip to me. I take it that the free legionaire should be disbanded outside of a city?

No. The rules state that they should be immediately disbanded in place. If "in place" happens to be in a city, so much the better

Theseus · July 31, 2002, 14:39

Actually, there are no stated rules that apply in this situation (at least not in English).

Sir Ralph reported that the guy in Germany, Penfold, immediately disbanded Warriors from goody huts, but that's all.

I would comment that if you've done well enough to get an AI city to flip to you:

1. Don;t tell Coracle.
2. The added benefit of x number of shields from disbanding units is minimal, and should be considered part of the success of the flip.

I haven;t gotten that far on the fixed SAV... sounds like Aeson is kicking ass and taking names... errr, maybe that's the wrong image.

alexman · July 31, 2002, 14:46

Sorry guys, I screwed up with the legionaire thing. If you disband it in the city you will get 250 shields!

Please disband outside the city.

[Edit: After thinking about it more, I actually I like it! It's kinda like getting a poor-man's peaceful leader for rushing expensive improvements! (you can't build Wonders and the 1-1-1 stats are not quite the benefit of an Army, LOL)]

Arrian · July 31, 2002, 15:00

That's funny. No big deal, we just won't disband them in cities.

Aeson, as usual, is gonna put us all to shame.

-Arrian

Theseus · July 31, 2002, 15:23

Group decision time:

All in favor of allowing 250 shield disbands, vote aye!!

AYE!!!

alexman · July 31, 2002, 15:25

AYE!!!

Arrian · July 31, 2002, 16:19

Hmm... ok then. Culture flipping another civ's cities is now something to really shoot for.

Point of clarification: can you move this uber warrior to another city and disband it, or must it be used in the city that flipped?

-Arrian

alexman · July 31, 2002, 16:35

I like it more and more. If you try too hard to get a culture flip, you will be pressing hard against their borders and they will be more likely to get mad and declare war. If you manage to pull it off, I say do as you please with your pseudo-leader.

I still think we shouldn't be allowed to use this unit as a pre-build though.

Killerdaffy · July 31, 2002, 17:47

Oops, I should have read the rules better. I didn't disband the three legionairs I got through flips - never mind I can still use them now. The only problem is, that I pressed to hard on my friends in yellow and they declared war. The silk city, I guess... Well, I have alliances with the other civs on the continent and hope they crush them before I get crushed. Only two cities lost so far, not too bad but my trade routes all went to hell and that might cost me my neck later on...

Killerdaffy · July 31, 2002, 17:53

Oh and I am playing Killer AI.

One more question: I suppose it is against the rules to pillage with scouts?? I mean that might just convince the AI to cut his losses.

Aeson · July 31, 2002, 18:01

I disbanded the 4 I got so far outside of the cities. Not really a big deal, as everything is built just about anyways...

I got beat to the Lighthouse by 4 turns... Great Wall by 3 turns... Magellan's by 1 turn... Shakespeare's by 1 turn... Leo's by 1 turn... Wasn't doing very well with timing pre-builds this game.

The rest are mine though

Are we supposed to finish up Diplomatically?

alexman · July 31, 2002, 18:08

Pillaging with scouts should be OK

I think that even keeping the legionaires without disbanding them should be OK. (The Army equivalent of our peacetime leader)

Basically, play this game just like any other game, except for using legionaires as a pre-build.

Finish any way you like. Just post the game before you're done so we can compare notes on what the AI did from the replay.

Catt · August 1, 2002, 00:01

I just downloaded the "standard" version since the "killer" version was leading in the downloads 7 - 2. I generally don't get to play much during the week (more on weekends) but my expectations are that this game should go pretty quickly -- very quickly if I can't keep the peace

. I will try to keep close to the pace of play (although I won't get anything done tonight).

One personal plea - screenshots! Everyone seems to have gotten pretty good at it, and I know it can be a pain in the heat of battle, but . . . how does that old saying go . . . a screenshot is worth two pages of rant . . cant . . ur, rant?

Catt

Robber Baron · August 1, 2002, 00:25

Aeson: any chance you could put together a game log? This sounds as epic as the Ice Continent game, and it would incredibly instructive to dissect your strategy.

Killerdaffy · August 1, 2002, 08:28

OK, I completed the game, Space Race and I sucked. The ZIP contains the last turn save and a (rudimentary) log. I might make it nicer with screenshots later but right now I'm simply embarrassed by my performance.

If I get around to it I'll play the normal AI version as well. It looked to me as if the the feedback loop worked great in the killer version. If someone want to take a closer look, I still have some of the earlier savegames.

Killerdaffy · August 1, 2002, 08:30

Oops, I should have included the file...

Arrian · August 1, 2002, 10:35

*Arrian's After Action Report*

I went the the "killer AI" variant for this one. I built Washington where we started and built an extra scout or two. Then a worker, then settlers. Lots of settlers. I beat our nothern neighbors to the chokepoint with silks - I built the city on the middle silk. I then backfilled like mad. A lot of our terrain was crap, btw. I managed to fill up the land south of the chokepoint, with the exception of three crappy coastal AI cities dropped from galleys (one French, one Iroquois, one Indian). I got very little from huts (warrior code, about $75 gold).

I traded tech aggressively early on. I was also able to purchase 2 Iroquois workers. Washington had just finished it's last settler and was down to 2 pop. I immediately added the 2 iroquois workers, and started on the Pyramids. This may have been my best move of the game.

I built the Colossus, the Great Library and the Hanging Gardens. The last one triggered my Golden Age, in republic. I was running 100% taxes and using every penny on rushbuilds. During my GA, I built my Forbidden Palace just south of the silk chokepoint. I figured building one to the west was pointless, as the terrain out there was horrible. I built the Sistine and Bach, but lost out on Copernicus (I had a choice between Bach and Cop's... chose Bach). I built Adam Smith's and Newtons, and went democracy. At this point I was all set. Trade relations with the other civs were great, I was making tons of money, and my cities were happy & well-developed. By this point, I had taken the tech lead, which I would hold through the rest of the game.

I built my railroads and factories (using my only flip-received "legionary" to create an instafactory in New York) and hospitals. I built ToE and Hoover. I raced for the Modern Age, at 100% science, still making several hundred gold per turn from my trades.

And then, in 1560AD, 4 turns from completing the UN, disaster struck:

The Egyptians called me up and wanted to renew one of our luxury deals (I think it was spices for 10 gpt). They were more than happy to keep paying, and were already gracious, but I figured "what the hell" and gave it to them for free, just to be nice. They had, incidentally, more than 300 gold in the bank.

I ended my turn, and...

"The Egyptians have declared war on us!"

I stared in utter and complete shock at that message for some time. Then I hit enter, to see an Egyptian Cavalry violate our RoP agreement to take Washington. Three other cities fell that turn, including my FP city, which they razed. I tried to salvage things. I got everyone in the world to ally with me. I starting building explorers, hoping to get in their way... to no avail. By the end of turn 2 of the war, the entire core of my empire was in Egyptian hands. New York was taken with 3 turns to go on the UN. All was lost.

I cannot begin to explain how awful this was to watch. It was agony. Bear in mind that this occurred around 12:30 am, after 6 straight hours at the computer.

The Egyptians did not attack me because they couldn't pay me for a trade deal. They had the money to pay for the spices. They had 300+ gold in the bank. They just wanted to hit somebody, and that somebody (despite them being "gracious") was me.

So I did want I think most anyone would have done: I reloaded the 1560 save, and signed an MPP with Egypt. Guess what: "The Egyptians have declared war on the French." Better, but still annoying, as France was far and away my best trading partner, and the top AI civ in the game (in terms of tech/money). I was never touched by French troops, completed the UN and won a diplomatic victory in 1580AD (4 for, 1 against, 1 abstention). Score in the low four thousands.

The reality is that I lost. But I just couldn't accept that - after all that work. To be FOUR TURNS AWAY! What is so frustrating is that I played smart: I never maxxed out an AI civ on a trade deal. I know for a fact that Egypt didn't run out of money and attack me for that reason. Every AI civ but the Germans was "gracious" with me. I suppose my only mistake was not having a line of explorers for them to have to plow through. I guess I got cocky. Everything had gone so well. There was no warfare at all on my continent prior to the Rape of America. ARRRRG!

More observations on the state of the outside world during this game in the next post...

-Arrian

Arrian · August 1, 2002, 10:49

The AI's performance:

France - Advanced, Extremely Rich (I sold them one Industrial Age tech for over 200 gold per turn)
Egypt - Advanced, fairly rich
Iroquois - backward, poor
Germany - very backward, very poor
China - mediocre tech, very poor
India - mediocre tech, occasionally had money

France was incredible. I couldn't believe how much money they had. The always had money to buy things from me. Every time. With the other civs, it was hit and miss - mostly miss with Germany, China and the Iroquois. Paris was also the #2 city in the world behind Washington, with several wonders.

I may have crippled the Iroquois with the early purchase of those two workers.

China and Germany fought at least 3 wars, with China slowly biting off pieces of the Fatherland. India joined in once or twice against Germany. They didn't seem to gain much from it.

I was able to make shocking sums of money, primarily off the French and Egyptians, by trading my luxuries, resources and old tech. I had accumulated over $10K by the end of the game - even though I rushbought TONS of stuff, including uneeded things like cathedrals and coloseums in size 2-4 cities just so I could keep my culture up.

I'm curious as to why China was so poor. Perhaps they built too many of those defensive units? Germany was doing ok until they got into the tussle with Mao... afterwhich they went into a slow, steady decline.

-Arrian

FrustratedPoet · August 1, 2002, 11:01

Ouch!

That sounds tough Arrian ... curse those pesky Egyptians!

France's performance sounds awesome. 200gpt? WOW!