What does Infantry represent? - Page 2

Panag · August 6, 2002, 09:43

hi ,

the infantry unit they have now is good , ..... to fill the time period between 1917 and lets say 1950 , ...

after that they need a footsoldier for the "vietnam" era , and last but not least a modern 1985 + guy

have a nice day

Ethelred · August 6, 2002, 10:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Barchan
Nevertheless, I can't help but think you're missing the point.

I am trying to help you think otherwise. I am afraid it was you that missed the point.

Quote:

Oh, I have a sense of humor. Perhaps your insults weren't all that funny? Anyway, maybe you should try using smilies more often to indicate you're just kidding.

That's as may be, but they at least let us know when they *are* jokes....

See you missed another point. A joke need not also be kidding. I said it was funny. I didn't say I was kidding.

If you found what I said so insulting ....

A breech loader is loaded from the rear of the gun. That is what I was talking about. I don't think anyone but you had a problem with it nor do I think any lurker was confused. You were being a pedent. So you got my grammer nazi award. Its supposed to be annoying AND funny. I don't expect the reciever to laugh. So a smiley would be innapropriate even beyond my usual reticence in using them except when being silly.

=DrJambo= · August 6, 2002, 10:30

ethelred and barchan, could you stop this childish bickering and post something constructive rather than filling up this post with nonense.

thanks

Ming · August 6, 2002, 14:13

Barchan · August 7, 2002, 03:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred
You were being a pedent.

*sighs*

It's pedant, but since it seems we're not going to progress beyond the "was not/were too" stage here, there's little point in trying to deny your accusation. Oh, and by the way, repeatedly calling someone a Nazi is generally not very well received. I'm not personally of the Jewish faith, but I have friends who are and would be grievously offended to be labeled any sort of Nazi, grammar or otherwise.

But this has gone on long enough, and in deference to DrJambo and others (Ming in particular *bows respectfully*), I'm willing to let the issue slide.

So anyway, FWIW, I think the Infantry unit represents the basic ground unit from nearly every industrialized country from about 1900 onward to the mid-1960's. In the latter quarter of the 20th century the advent of fully-automatic weapons, squad-level machine guns (such as the M-60 and SAW) and widespread use of armored personnel carriers made most bolt-action/semi-automatic foot-based infantry units obsolete. Not totally ineffective, mind you, but obsolete. Swords are obsolete, but someone can still kill you with one if they get close enough.

Maquiladora · August 7, 2002, 06:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Barchan

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred

You were being a pedent.

*sighs*

It's pedant...

Capt Dizle · August 7, 2002, 07:13

Thats pretty funny. Pedant. Pedent.

Anyone want to come up with a noun or a few appropriate adjectives to describe Ming's showy graphic?

Ming, no offense, but you have issues pal.

Zachriel · August 7, 2002, 12:16

-

N. Machiavelli · August 7, 2002, 14:35

Ming knows how to make an entrance. Oh well, no more SPAMMING for me. Hopefully others will take it to heart.

Panag · August 8, 2002, 10:32

hi ,

there is room for a range of other "infantry" jobs aswell , commando , combat diver , sniper , etc , ....

have a nice day

N. Machiavelli · August 8, 2002, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

there is room for a range of other "infantry" jobs aswell , commando , combat diver , sniper , etc , ....

have a nice day

Sniper? How would you implement this in game mechanics? The only way I can see it done as a standard unit is to have a foot soldier able to lethal bombard a single square away without the ability to effect buildings or improvments.

Panag · August 8, 2002, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli

Sniper? How would you implement this in game mechanics? The only way I can see it done as a standard unit is to have a foot soldier able to lethal bombard a single square away without the ability to effect buildings or improvments.

hi ,

if we start from this viewpoint , then we cant put anything in the game , ....

if we put our shoulders under something , we nearly always arrive at the place we want , ....

not a bad idea you have btw , intresting

its always possible that Firaxis assigns more unit options , ...

have a nice day

N. Machiavelli · August 8, 2002, 14:19

They are off to the right start including new units such as "Medieval Infantry" but I think that was a sort of 'consession' on their part. The fewer units they make, the easier, simpler it is for them to worry about balance. It's not like Firaxis has major problems or that creating new units are beyond the competance of the company that spawned the originals. But any new units in the near future are reliant upon the fans to create, not Firaxis.

Panag · August 8, 2002, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
They are off to the right start including new units such as "Medieval Infantry" but I think that was a sort of 'consession' on their part. The fewer units they make, the easier, simpler it is for them to worry about balance. It's not like Firaxis has major problems or that creating new units are beyond the competance of the company that spawned the originals. But any new units in the near future are reliant upon the fans to create, not Firaxis.

hi ,

they should create more units , not the players , .....
and what is the use to let the players create when the game itself is unstable , .....

they have to fix balance and other stuff first , then the players can start to work on the creation of mod's and scen's , .....

have a nice day

N. Machiavelli · August 8, 2002, 14:53

But every unit they introduce changes the gameplay and strategy of the game. Every unit would have to be seriously play-balance tested and both it, and many other units would have to be adjusted accordingly. If they give the players the proper tools to do what they could do in CtPII, such as unit and event scripting, or flags like the unit-only bombardment, then *we* can adjust the game as we see fit. It's better that way. The players themselves are the best beta-testers, not the company's in-house team.

Panag · August 8, 2002, 14:59

Quote:

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
But every unit they introduce changes the gameplay and strategy of the game. Every unit would have to be seriously play-balance tested and both it, and many other units would have to be adjusted accordingly. If they give the players the proper tools to do what they could do in CtPII, such as unit and event scripting, or flags like the unit-only bombardment, then *we* can adjust the game as we see fit. It's better that way. The players themselves are the best beta-testers, not the company's in-house team.

hi ,

if it does bring to many changes , then why did they give us the editor , .....

have a nice day

N. Machiavelli · August 8, 2002, 15:02

For exaclty as I say: For *us* to do the work on our own terms. One person making a mod for personal us is much less critical and cautious than a gaming company who has to take the critique of it's entire customer base.

Panag · August 8, 2002, 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
For exaclty as I say: For *us* to do the work on our own terms. One person making a mod for personal us is much less critical and cautious than a gaming company who has to take the critique of it's entire customer base.

hi ,

but what you claim cant be true , you say that if the add units it shall unbalance the game , ...
and if we do it , it shall not be the case , ...

agreed people like Gramphos and some others have done a large part , and they can even do more , ...
but there is a limit , .....

and there fore they , the company should do more , ...
and that is exactly what they are going to do

have a nice day

Ethelred · August 8, 2002, 15:38

Quote:

but what you claim cant be true , you say that if the add units it shall unbalance the game , ...

Of course its true.

IF the players make changes that cause a mod to be unbalanced that is their problem. Some even do it intentionally and don't consider it a problem.

IF Firaxis does it for the basic game that will destroy the game for all of us that want to play the game unmodded.

An unbalanced mod is just an unbalanced mod and the original game can still be fine. If you choose to play a mod thats your risk.

N. Machiavelli · August 8, 2002, 16:05

Agreed Ethelred. Believe me, I think that the boys and girls down at Firaxis have done a awesome (not perfect, but few can pull *that* off) job on the game. The fact that they are adding a few more units to fill in the gaps that exist is a testament to them... but the talk of the specialized custom units that folks talk about, IMHO, should *not* be done by Firaxis, but by us. That way, we can all screw the game up ourselves. If *we* make play-balance mistakes, the only ones we have to answer to is ourselves, if *they* screw up, you can bet most of the community would be flamming the boards up ASAP.

Thrawn05 · August 8, 2002, 22:41

I always thought of Infantry as the D Day boys of WW2, and to reflect this, my edited game I chagned things around alot.

Amphibous Assaults now only have transports as a unit, the Infantry has Amph. Assault option, the Marines replace Mech Infantry (marines have the same attack defense as Mech Infantry, plus the amph assault option) and the Mech Infantry go along with Sythetic Fiber.

Now most of you are already saying I'm a jerk for this, but I think it's a good idea. Just think of it, you basicly will have two units, with the same attack defense, one has one movement, the other has three, and only the marine has amph. assault option. I did increase the price of the Marines to the same amount as Mech Infantry was, and I made the Mech Infantry cheaper, by 2 shields cheaper if I recall right.

Sorry if I never make any sense.

Ethelred · August 9, 2002, 00:14

The big advantage of Mechanized Infantry IS its defense. It not only increases mobility it increases the chance of survival in increasingly deadly open field battles. Artillery has made any attempt to cross open ground without armoured transport for the infantry a suicidal mission.

Broken ground still needs men on foot. Only men can go some places. Unless someone starts arming goats anyway.

Panag · August 10, 2002, 05:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred

Of course its true.

IF the players make changes that cause a mod to be unbalanced that is their problem. Some even do it intentionally and don't consider it a problem.

IF Firaxis does it for the basic game that will destroy the game for all of us that want to play the game unmodded.

An unbalanced mod is just an unbalanced mod and the original game can still be fine. If you choose to play a mod thats your risk.

hi ,

that is the main point , they > Firaxis should expand the game , with extra stuff , among it , at least a modern day infantry on foot , or a Vietnam era soldier or so
there shall be ancient infantry units , but they should not forget to add at least one extra infantry unit to EACH era , ....

have a nice day

Panag · August 10, 2002, 05:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred
The big advantage of Mechanized Infantry IS its defense. It not only increases mobility it increases the chance of survival in increasingly deadly open field battles. Artillery has made any attempt to cross open ground without armoured transport for the infantry a suicidal mission.

Broken ground still needs men on foot. Only men can go some places. Unless someone starts arming goats anyway.

hi ,

they and we should not forget that its not all mech. infantry in the whole world , ...

one thing they could do is to make a type of trooptransport or ligh mech infantry unit that could load one or two footsoldiers , ......

Firaxis , ...... what ya say , .....

have a nice day

edit ; typo

Thrawn05 · August 10, 2002, 09:29

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
one thing they could do is to make a type of trooptransport or ligh mach infantry unit that could load one or two footsoldiers , ......

Firaxis , ...... what ya say , .....

have a nice day

So far, the game engine dosn't support land units transporting land units. Don't know why (well, I can guess they forgot to add it in the game, or commented that block of code out and save it for PTW), but I would like that.

Optimizer · August 10, 2002, 11:28

You can make a land unit that carries land units, I haven't managed to make the AI handle them properly.

Panag · August 10, 2002, 17:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimizer
You can make a land unit that carries land units, I haven't managed to make the AI handle them properly.

hi ,

indeed , even when you give ten units to the AI at the start , the AI does not use them , .....

they should think about it , ....

have a nice day

HazieDaVampire · August 10, 2002, 17:28

He looks like WW2 British Infantry, we used the same helmets!

And it cant be american WW2 infantry, cuz the M1 Garand rifle could fire as fast as you could pull the trigger!

And i think the riflemen would look better if he looked like a British Empire troop, like the ones who took on the Zulus!
Not like Steve Mcween in a baseball cap and a red jacket!

Panag · August 10, 2002, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
He looks like WW2 British Infantry, we used the same helmets!

And it cant be american WW2 infantry, cuz the M1 Garand rifle could fire as fast as you could pull the trigger!

And i think the riflemen would look better if he looked like a British Empire troop, like the ones who took on the Zulus!
Not like Steve Mcween in a baseball cap and a red jacket!

hi ,

, actually he looks more like 1917 US army , in Russia or France

have a nice day

Ethelred · August 10, 2002, 17:43

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire

And i think the riflemen would look better if he looked like a British Empire troop, like the ones who took on the Zulus!
Not like Steve Mcween in a baseball cap and a red jacket!

That would look better anyway but I think the idea was to use one of the earliest massive rifle armed units. Of course Sid being into the Civil War could have a bit to do with it as well.