Ministers / Advisors

[GeneralTacticus]

Maybe for a few minsters we should use the SMACX designation, e.g. the military minister would be Operations Director, etc.

[Darkness' Edge]

I think we should follow the tried-and-tested system from the Civ2 game, with all posts directly elected, and the community being polled on every single decision. It's worked beautifully there, and I can't see the point in taking the power out of the citizens hands...

[Pandemoniak]

EXECUTIVE MEMBERS :
- Faction Leader [/B]: plays the game, five turns every two days. He can call for a High Coucil Poll, or for a Citizen's Poll. He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.


HIGH COUNCIL :
- Prime Minister : assist the Faction Leader, advise him.
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department

- Minister of Colonies : his duty is to explore Planet, and to colonize it.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

- Minister of Terraforming : his duty is to make Planet a better place to live.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

- Minister of the Economy : His duty is to deal with economy.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

- Minister of the Military : his duty is to care about military things.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

- Minister of Science : his duty is to deal with sciences : what should be researched.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

- Minister of Foreign Affairs : his duty is to choose who are our allies and ennemies.
He can ask for High Council Poll, and for a Citizen's Poll, for something concerning his department
He can vote in Citizen's Poll, and in High Coucil Poll.

COUNCIL
- City Planner : his duty is to plan what must be built in bases.
He can vote in Citizen's Poll.

- Historian : his duty is to keep the forum in knowledge with what is going on. He also write fictions, etc...
He can vote in Citizen's Poll.

SOCIAL ENGINEERING
The president cannot change the social engineering without consulting either the High Council or the Citizens.

MISCELLANEOUS
SP must be built with agreement of both City Planner and related Minister. If they cant agree, the Minister can call for a High Council Poll, or for a Citizen poll.


Does it sound good as a constitution ?

[DeathByTheSword]

Pandemoniak this rulez.... i concur. but perhapse we can give SP to a minister/ director that hasnt much to do.....? and I still like the idea that someone thinks about covert-ops minister/director.........and I also agree with Darkness' Edge that ever minister/ director be elected directly. the extra power that the leader has is that he plays the game and all the things that are not planned not in those 5 turns (Pandemoniak`s idea) he deals with by him self....if he does that badly he will not be elected again............what about it?


i taught of putting this in a seperate thread and if that is what people want I will do it but i made a sum up from everthing I could find. i put it in one file....read and modify if you want but it is also found on all this threads......

[DeathByTheSword]

here it is

[Vlad Antlerkov]

If no one else wants it, I'm in for Foreign Advisor...

[Maniac]

I still prefer the old idea on the second page, perhaps with some name changes:

High Commissioner: plays the turn

Alpha Talent: Vice-Commissioner, organizes elections

Operations Director: controls military units and unit design

Intelligence Director: controls probe teams and exploration units

Economy Director: base production (all facilities and SPs), energy and trade

Social Affairs (or SE) Director: income division, specialists, drones, organizes polls on SE

Foreign Affairs Director: Contacts with other factions, Planetary Council stuff

Colonization and Terraformation Director: controls Colony Pods and Terraformers

Research Director: tech rate, research goal

Librarian: his duty is to keep the forum in knowledge with what is going on. He also write fictions, etc...

My first problem with Pandemoniak's idea is that the Economy Minister has nothing to do if the City Planner decides what to produce in the bases. My second problem is that the Colonies minister will have nothing to do after the first 100 years. Therefore I would split that office into Colonies (to Terraformation) and Exploration (to Intelligence).

Other ideas are that the function of Intelligence Director could be merged with Foreign Affairs when most of the map is explored and we have frequencies of all factions. Another idea is that the Colonization Director will stay and keep both functions, and that probe teams will be in the Foreign Affairs Directorate from the start, but that this Colonization directorate will simply be abolished after the first 100 turns or so.

Edit: all buildings to Economy

[DeathByTheSword]

you give SE the anti-drone buildings but no you split buildings up I think it is better to give one minister all the buildig thingy

[DeathByTheSword]

i agree that we can abandon some ministers and alway create some new ones if it is needed.......minister of planetbusters and native-life-warfare.....something like this

[DeathByTheSword]

damn 3rd post in a row :S but ok how are we going to call them? i wanted to put it in a poll but is works also.......

ministers/directors/advisors/commissioners/other

EDIT: he got Warlord status cool

[Kassiopeia]

Pandemoniak, how do you plan to isolate the polls so that only the Directors can vote in them? Maybe we could arrange it with a PM ballot of some kind.

I'd rather prefer M@ni@c's suggestion (after all, it's based on mine ).
The title of the job is pretty irrelevant, but for PK's directors is fine for me.

[Lemmy]

what minister would handle the unit designs?

[DeathByTheSword]

minister of defense probebly

[DeathByTheSword]

the commissioner will say when the ministers will be elected and stuff right? are we going to start the game in aug. or do we wait and organize first and start some where in sept.? because at this rate we can be ready very soon (I thinK)

[Method]

1)Do we have a final list of positions to be held yet?

2)Does the commissioner's vote for ministers carry any more weight than anyone else's?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by TKG
1)Do we have a final list of positions to be held yet?

2)Does the commissioner's vote for ministers carry any more weight than anyone else's?

I say no. This is a democracy game, people! Its for the people because its democratic!

[Kassiopeia]

1) I don't think we have any final list yet. There's Pandemoniak's suggestion, and M@ni@c's suggestion. I might try to refine a new list from these two though.

2) The Commissioner should have as much influence over them as any other citizen, i.e. one vote.

[Nubclear]

- Historian : his duty is to keep the forum in knowledge with what is going on. He also write fictions, etc...
He can vote in Citizen's Poll.

Ya know, I don't think Historian should be an official position. There is no need for it to have elections because there will probably be many historians out there anyway. Unity News Network (which may be renamed.....special reward for someone who can guess what the next name will be) is a means for which myself and other people can become their own historians. I can look back at past issues and see what was the current buzz and all that, so...To me, it seems un-nesisary (sp please)

[Kassiopeia]

Besides, I think we should and could have several Historians. And I think it should be a communal duty that you aren't voted for, instead you volunteer to keep record of things.

[Anodyne]

Tassadar> Unnecessary

And I'm also interested in the position of Foreign Affairs Director...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ade
Tassadar> Unnecessary

What do you mean?

/Edit: Oh! Thanks.

[Andemagne]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Hmmm, I think the 'moral outcome' should be on the shoulders of the Minister himself. I don't think we need a specific person to advise him in his actions. We have the Commissioner for that. If the people disprove the Cabinet's actions as immoral, they may vote for new Ministers in the next elections.

first of all, the people do not deside what is immoral and what's not. they only deside what do they hold as immoral act. and that goes by the whole consept of morality. morality is an objective thing, given to humans by God or something else. so we need priests and philosophers to interpret this objectivity to the people.
second, ministers rise from the public, so they are just normal human beings. and they do not possess the same insight as priests or philosophers. so we a "religious advisor" to tell the other ministers what is the morally right course of action. or it can just be called philosopher.
third! WE DO NEED A RELIGIOUS ADIVISOR! 'cos with out being a moral agent human cannot achive happy life (eudaimonia) which is meaning of our lives.

Heh, so this really is the stage where the ship crew have their rows and separate? But we should be one faction only!

multi-player demo game

[Mr. President]

I'll express interest for the Foreign Affairs post, since it seems like the one I'll be most able to do.

[Anodyne]

MrPresident> That' makes three of us

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ade
MrPresident> That' makes three of us

Actually, it only makes one of you. Nobody else has posted in the thread, so....Plus, he never said he was RUNNING, he just said he was 'interested'

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...postid=1186464

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Andemagne
first of all, the people do not deside what is immoral and what's not. they only deside what do they hold as immoral act. and that goes by the whole consept of morality. morality is an objective thing, given to humans by God or something else. so we need priests and philosophers to interpret this objectivity to the people.
second, ministers rise from the public, so they are just normal human beings. and they do not possess the same insight as priests or philosophers. so we a "religious advisor" to tell the other ministers what is the morally right course of action. or it can just be called philosopher.
third! WE DO NEED A RELIGIOUS ADIVISOR! 'cos with out being a moral agent human cannot achive happy life (eudaimonia) which is meaning of our lives.

I understand. But. Then the religious advisor would have to be selected in some other way then a public ballot, as I think it's quite clear that it would be silly... that would mean that the moral grounds of the RA are dictated by the voting populace.
Therefore I suggest that none is selected, and that those who wish to become these priests and philosophers can do so on their own might; so, we do not need an RA, but some citizens acting voluntarily and freely as such counsellors would be more then welcome. They could hold their objectivity if this position is given by none but instead taken by them themselves, by their own calling.

[Crisler]

Originally posted by Andemagne
WE DO NEED A RELIGIOUS ADIVISOR! 'cos with out being a moral agent human cannot achive happy life (eudaimonia) which is meaning of our lives.
multi-player demo game

Brother, it is nice to know I am not alone in my struggle to provide a rudder in the sea of immorality, you are welcome to join the Fundamentalist Faction and help "fight the good fight".

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

[Anodyne]

Kass> You're right.
The UNP always has room for Philosophers.

[Andemagne]

OK forget what I said in my last post. that's true in real life but this is a game.




My Suggestion:
Commissioner - plays the game, overseas the Ministers
Vice Commissioner - Commissioner's Aide, does everything Commissioner forgets
Minister of Exploration and Intelligence - initial exploration (scoutrovers and patrols) and probe teams
Minister of Terraforming and Colonization - controls colony pods and terraformers
Minister of Energy and Industry - SP's, base structures, crawlers, worker placings, energy, .....
Research Manager - labs rate, research goal
Minister of Social Affairs - psi rate, specialists, drones, .....
Diplomat - contacts with other factions, planetary counsil stuff
Unit Engineer - designs new units
General - controls land military units
Admiral - controls naval units
Air Force Commander - controls air units, missiles and orbital satellites
Librarian - tells the story
(Commissioner + 12) (ministers can also be called advisors/directors/secretarys/something else)

citizens choose ministers in elections. ministers make desisions of their own area withOUT consulting the public (thats what they are there for). ministers tell their decisions to "president", who plays the game and makes the final desisions. only in major issues (war/peace, sosial engineering, etc.) the people is asked their oppinnion. OR we just could poll every decision in the game.

[Andemagne]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
I understand. But. Then the religious advisor would have to be selected in some other way then a public ballot, as I think it's quite clear that it would be silly...

...for a demo game

Therefore I suggest that none is selected, and that those who wish to become these priests and philosophers can do so on their own might; so, we do not need an RA, but some citizens acting voluntarily and freely as such counsellors would be more then welcome. They could hold their objectivity if this position is given by none but instead taken by them themselves, by their own calling.

yes this is lot better idea... ...for a demo game.
I was about to make suggestion my self but you read my thoughts.