Revolution.

Inverse Icarus · August 6, 2002, 16:47

This is not a joke in any way shape or form.

Forget political parties. Forget everything you know about me and anyone else in office.

Just know that in an hour Timeline only got through 1 turn, and then started screaming "I Resign". Ninot was screaming too.

Also note that there was plenty of useful chat / ideas floating around, that they chose to do nothing with and scream about resigning.

Ministers Room:

Quote:

[16:16] (UberKruX) SirRalph: why
[16:16] (UberKruX) SirRalph: apolyton builds them in 2 turns, so does termina
[16:16] (SirRalph) We need the galley in 8 turns
[16:16] * Timeline23 thinks it snot his fault turnchats take so long

[16:17] (SirRalph) In this time, Poly can build 8 warriors
[16:17] (Timeline23) Ninot?
[16:17] (Ninot-) uhhh... errr... i resign! lol, j/k
[16:17] (Timeline23) LOL!!!!!!!
[16:17] (Timeline23) ME TOO, I RESIGN
[16:17] (Timeline23) see ya
[16:17] (Timeline23)

[16:18] (SirRalph) whatever
[16:18] * UberKruX gives up with you all.

Regular Room (from same time):

Quote:

[16:17] (UberKruX) OPD: what tiles are you working
[16:17] (OPD) do the hell
[16:17] (Gepap) If you make a good suggestion, they will tae it into account
[16:18] * UberKruX gives up with you all.
[16:18] (Gepap) I pushed hard enough to get two embassies started..it can be done
[16:18] (Trevman85) Ninot and Timeline just resigned
[16:18] (OPD) UK: take the 2 shield tile form termina and get poly to work it then get poly to work the 2 forests aswell
[16:18] (skywalker2588) uh... NO
[16:18] (Timeline23) no we didnt
[16:18] (Timeline23) it was a joke man
[16:18] (Gepap) I WILL BE PRESIDENT! MUWHAHAHAHA
[16:18] (Timeline23) lol
[16:18] (Timeline23) Ninot and Timeline Declare martial law
[16:19] * Gepap sees they didn't, scales back plans for coup... I mean, ice cream party!
[16:19] * Epistax practices his martial arts
[16:19] (Timeline23) lol...
[16:19] * UberKruX says f*ck this. Good work with this turnchat linney.
[16:19] *** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Aug 06 16:19:34 2002

The Government you elected is inefficient, slovenly, and not mature at all.

I've been known to fool around a bit, but I never devistated a turnchat to such a degree.

It is time for action. Something must be done. I reccommend a complete upheval of the game, and New ministers to be installed immediately. This term should be considered over as of now and elections should be held immediately for officials that actually DO something, not just sit there and scream about resigning, kidding or not. They chose not to take part in the relevant discussion, and actually chose to undermine it with their immaturity. It was sickening.

I am hereby starting a revolution with the stated goals of overthrowing this decadent regime and electing a competent executive branch. I am also for restructuring or current system to include Provinces (I prefer the term Sector). Our current system no longer works. I am also working on ways to restructure the turnchat itself.

EDIT: the > < tags changed to ( ) so you can see names

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 16:59

Uber, I support you (even though you hate me to no end), but only if you're planning on using my proposed model: President, VP, War Minister (war, expansion,), Domestic Minister (city planning, public works, finance,science), and Foreign Minister (foreign, trade). Each minister has a sort of helper: Generals for War, Governors for Domestic, Ambassadors for Foreign. The Court is unchanged.

Spiffor · August 6, 2002, 17:00

What we need is to appoint replacements for those who are abssent to the turnchat. After you left, the turnchat became much more efficient, without superfluous chatting among the ministers. It's not your fault at all : you left at the worst time, when we didn't adapt ourselves to the plannerless situation.
That's why some people (OPD, Sirralph, myself, then Ninot) were seriously discussing the city planning issue, throwing everybody else in boredom. We now know that we MUST get temporary replacements for those who're not here on a chat. Debate on every single matter is ****. It wastes debate on important matters.
After this, we've done 2 more turns without problems, and without spending too much time.

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:04

Spiffor - even after he left, the turnchat was HORRIBLE. Timeline gave misleading and often incorrect orders, the ministers took all eternity to debate things, and the citizens were largely ignored.

Epistax · August 6, 2002, 17:06

Where I do agree that those in charge are not doing what they could to help the consistency of the game, I do not think that should be a cause for revolution. At worst, nothing will become of turnchats until the irresponsible officials are removed from office at the next election.

I will admit that I say very silly things during turnchats sometimes, and it is usually out of boredom for an order. However if the long delay comes from actual thinking and planning, I don't mind at all.

We should never, ever, have a delay because of an absence, short of a birth or death/injury in RL. You can always have your latest plans explicitly posted. You can always have a backup.

UnOrthOdOx · August 6, 2002, 17:06

I think we all need to seriously sit down and take a look at how chats are handled all together.

Sorry I cannot go into detail at the moment. I have something to go and work out...

Inverse Icarus · August 6, 2002, 17:07

i didnt even mention the fact that timline got several orders incorrect, which caused "official mistakes".

Whats the point of debating strategy if the officials cant even get the orders right?

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:08

Really, his incorrect orders slowed the game down a lot.

Nubclear · August 6, 2002, 17:11

Uh oh, maybe I should stop citing the Civ3 Demo Game as something to model after in the AC demo game....

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:13

Ok, I've changed Science to fall under Domestic, at Uber's suggestion.

Timeline · August 6, 2002, 17:13

Lol Uber, you make it sound so serious. Yeah I made one slip up with a galley, moving it the wrong way ONCE.

This was a not a serious mistake because the Galley is not needed anywhere at the moment, and even now we have ordered it to just sit and wait.

This thread is completely useless, things went great after you left.

Inverse Icarus · August 6, 2002, 17:14

later tonight i shall produce my complete plan for the restructuring of the government.

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:15

Actually, you made A LOT of slips. Worker/Settler pair. Stack of 4 workers. Orders that were unclear, imprecise, and/or just plain WRONG.

Nubclear · August 6, 2002, 17:16

I can see it now...

"And then the Unity launched. It launched away from all the war, disease, hunger that plagued Earth. It launched away from the revolutions and unstable governments. Away from the corruption. It launched away from the failed experiment that was the Human Race.

But in forty years, that experiment would begin again. And the crew of the Unity will not allow the same tragic mistakes to be repeated." - Tassadar, Some Future Edition of UNN

In other words, this government is so unstable and so divided that I doubt anything will help us at this point. Whatever officials may have did in the turnchat is bad (Although I wasn't there..) of course, but now people are calling fo revolutions?

If we continue to act THIS WAY, the Civ3 Democracy Game will surely come to a loss...I only hope that Alpha Centauri does not share the same fate.

Spiffor · August 6, 2002, 17:16

skywalker :
once the city planning thing has been settled, ministers didn't discuss for more than 1 minute per matter anymore.
We gave orders with authority, consistent with what has been done, even if we didn't have the ministerial post (for example, I ordered Apolyton-produced warriors to go to Termina, as Uber has always done)

The only "debate" was about ending the turn in 670, but it was settled in 2 minutes.

Re the ignored citizens : I'm sorry, but I looked at the public chatroom very often. The public said nil. Please explain me how to listen to a mute public (you'll notice the only constructive suggestion from the public forum this turnchat, OPD's city plan, has been followed).

I think we don't need stronger team-leaders. We need some strong team members, who can issue menial orders without having to discuss with the colleagues. We should let debate (with everyone) for important matters, such as a general strategy, a techwhoring plan, massive poprushing etc.
Debating on whether Apolyton should work on grassland or forests should not happen again. For this, we need an active city planner, or a true city planner replacement.

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:16

Also, manually add +1 to YES.

Spiffor · August 6, 2002, 17:22

Let me take n example on how replacements can work well.
Almost nobody noticed the lack of our FAM. Why ? Because he had a replacement (myself) who issued orders. For example, there was an unplanned mishap in the techwhoring project, which forced me to give more money to the Brits. It took some time to work the deal with the Brits, but once I gave the order, it has been followed (and it would have been muuuuuuch debated if I hadn't the authority to do this)
I also bought a worker from Greece for 28 gold. This decision was taken quickly, and there was no need for discussion. Overall, the Foreign aspect of the turnchat went smoothly, because there was an active replacement.

Other example : GoddFella left before the end of the turnchat, but he gave precise orders for the turns to come. Same thing : we had no problem with public works.

DAVOUT · August 6, 2002, 17:22

1/ If anything, make the decision process clear :
- Tell which subject are decided by the ministers
- and which are decided by the people (if any) by polls creating obligations to the ministers. No more polls just for show.
2/ Do not create a job without the power to do something officially. All aides can be freely chosen, but have no power at all and no confusing titles.
3/ And find your way to have the game played smoothly.

Best wishes.

Ninot · August 6, 2002, 17:22

This is the funniest thread ever

nice way to humor up the forum Uber!

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:23

This is completely serious.

Ninot · August 6, 2002, 17:26

the hell its serious. ubers quotes and his statements contradict each other.

the ideas are good... but there is no fault with either myself or Timeline in truth.

And, having 1 turn done in an hours time, THAT is to blame on ministers not producing propper plans before the turnchat starts.

its good for a laugh, the first post I mean, but feel free to chatter on how we can streamline the government. All it will come down to his how can we elect ministers who will actually do their jobs.

Ninot · August 6, 2002, 17:30

When Timeline and I were goofing around, Spiffor was already communicating to me informations on how I could do the City Planners job (which i was not elected to, just the City Planner neglected to DO his job as of late)

When Uber left, we got some stuff done. But we couldnt get much more done, because we had to end the turnchat on something i presume we needed Uber to decide on.

Now, as i stated above, there ARE some ways we can think of streamlining the government, but when it comes down to it, the only way we are going to get more turns done are if the ministers are more responsible in what they have to do.

As far as the quotes Uber put up... and what he said about "screaming about resigning"... as the quotes show, i stated j/k when i said I was resigning (from temporary City Planners job) and Timeline said it was all a joke as well.

Spiffor · August 6, 2002, 17:31

Timeline : could you post the latest official save please ? I'd like to work on a short term city plan (before the French campaign), so that this whole mess doesn't repeat itself next time...

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:33

Also, the Ministers should do more discussion in the normal chat, not just the Minister chat.

Inverse Icarus · August 6, 2002, 17:35

it would help if we had a goddamned city planner now wouldnt it?

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:36

Yes. Punkbass is worthless.

Spiffor · August 6, 2002, 17:40

Uber : absolutely. But he's not here. It displeases me as much as you, but we have to cope with it, and find ways to make the game go smoothly.
I suggest we work on a short-term plan (until war with France) on this forum. I already have my idea, and I'm awaiting a save to work my project.
I also think we should elect somene through quickpolls at the beginning of each turnchat to have absolute power as city planner.

Lastly, I had a PM from punkbass 2 days ago, he told me he was about to set-up a thread to apologize for his 2 weeks absence (he was completel away from the internet), and hopes we had someone to replace him last 2 weeks.

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 17:41

Even when he is here, punkbass is worthless. Make him stay away.

Timeline · August 6, 2002, 18:03

I know one thing now for certain, I will be thinking twice before voting for Uber again.

Do we really want Ministers who are this easily upset and storm out of turnchats? Because of Uber, we had to stop the turnchat short 2 turns later because we needed orders on our units.

Kuciwalker · August 6, 2002, 18:05

The chat needed to end anyway. Do to some of our ministers' incopetence, it had gone on too long.