Psychotic Wonder Building - Page 2

Lord Merciless · August 9, 2002, 16:28

For all horse-based units, I rename them to 1st Cavalry Division, 2nd Cavalry Division, and so on... For non-upgradable units such as Legionary and Immortal, I just use the unit name. For example, Legio I, Legio X, and etc..

Theseus · August 9, 2002, 17:39

I would find that confusing too, as I will often have mixed forces of elite Knights and vet Cavs.

HazieDaVampire · August 9, 2002, 18:23

in my first ever game i got all the wonders, i was dead chuft!

Theseus · August 9, 2002, 19:49

Chuft?

Gen.Dragolen · August 13, 2002, 10:17

Aeson,

Thanks for the lessons in game analysis and strategy. I have been trying to get all of the wonders before the AI. I have one question: how do you max out your cash flow ?

The reason I ask is that I never have enough coin coming in to pay for a large military or to buy allies. Admittedly, I don't time the GA well, but it there anything you on top of selling luxuries and resources (with the occasional technology) ? I usually build the improvements in the following order for the cities between combat units: temple, walls, library, marketplace, aqueduct, granary,harbour, then courthouse if needed. Just keeping a 5/5/0 tax rate is problem.

This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me. I would love to be able to use Espionage to check out the AI Civ's cities that are producing Wonders or just to scout targets, but with only 50 gold in the Exchequer? The AI civ's will pay for luxuries, but most of the time, if they need it, they haven't a floren to their name. It's like the stock markets these days: where did all the money go?

The latest campaign has been productive: Monarch level and I have missed the Colossus, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, and Leonardo's due to cascade. As usual, The Pyramids were 4 turns from completion and the the others were all off cascades. I would love to be able to mod it so that you always had to start from scratch with wonders. Prebuilding Coloseums helps but with out the technology for the next wonder, I just have some very happy citizens.

I did luck out and get a leader (from the Bloodguard Swordsmen) and was able to put my Forbidden Palace in my first conquest's old captial (Rome and it was the first time I've every been able to do that: always had to build it the hard way before) and then put settlers at their old town sites. I added several of my own workers to Rome to prevent flipping while finishing off the rest of the Roman towns, and then added some of their captured workers to my core cities to bring them back up to 12 population. (nice multicultural look to them now) That gives me 6 out of 17 cities that can produce 20+ shields per turn, and from what I have seen of the AI cities when I setup embassies, they don't get much over 15 shields per turn. Now to just keep abreast of the latest technologies... It's nice having the Tiber running through it so Rome build Copernicus' Observatory, and I'd love to put Newton's University there too.

This leads to my other favorite headache: the AI will not trade technologies for gold or luxuries. I have been building the REEF (Royal Egyptian Expeditionary Force) in preparation of a campaign to LART the heck out of Bismark and Mao, who have been gaining ground against the hapless Japanese and repeatedly stiffing me when I ask for technology in trade. Island hopping is a nuisance with caravels, but I'm hoping that I can get another leader out of the deal.

In my experience with using the Egyptians in past campaigns, leaders have been very rare. Getting one this latest game was a pleasant surprise. I'm beginning to see just how much the game requires constant combat for us to moderate the combined research might of the AI civ's. I'm already a couple behind, and even with getting Astronomy and Navigation first, no one would trade anything for them. Most of the other AI Civ's had Banking and Chemistry, and all refused a trade that involved them giving any technology.

One last point: any suggestions on how you time your GA in this strategy? Playing the Egyptians it would be tempting to using to go after the GL and HG, but I've been holding off until the Middle Ages in hopes of using Bach's Cathedral to trigger it.

Anyway, it should be interesting to see how far behind I am in techs when I start the invasion: I have seen railway tiles on a couple of tiles already, and I've just gotten Economics. The race to Smith's Trading Company will be critical for me if the 30 units (10 Longbowmen, 10 Musketmen, 10 Knights) of the REEF get beat up.

Aeson, thanks for your counsel, and I look forward to checking out your saved game when I get home tonight.

D.

Arrian · August 13, 2002, 10:25

Gen. Dragolen,

Though I'm not Aeson, I think the best time for an Egyptian "builder" GA is one triggered by completing the Hanging Gardens (Colossus first, then the HG). If you have another city working on the Great Library, your GA ought to polish it off (it gets built late in v. 1.29) and you can start prebuilding in at least one city for the medieval wonders. You can crank up science to get feudalism, prebuild the Sistine with a Palace and build Sun Tzu straight-up. Your GA will give you a HUGE head start. Some of this depends on how the tech race is going. If you are ahead, slow down and earn some cash. You don't want to assist the AI's research. So long as you discover Theology before your "palace" is due to be finished, you're all set. If you build them both before the discovery of Invention by the AI, you've killed the cascade.

-Arrian

Gen.Dragolen · August 13, 2002, 16:02

Arrian,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will have to try that the next round. I have yet to trigger the GA in the current game and it's already around 1400 AD. Don't know how much of a chance I have if I need to use a War Chariot. The race for JS Bach's is going to be tight. I keep loosing a turn's production when the trade deals for luxuries end, and the AI Civ's have yet to notify that the deal is ending like they usually would.

That is one component I wish they had included: a summary of all your current trades. The existing Trade Advisor window is pretty... and useless to me. I like working command line on the servers at work and it annoys me when a program offers only a GUI with little or no functionality.

And I have one fear with the strategic resources in this game. They have a bad habit of diappearing on me, just when I really need them. Last game I had finished the Apollo Project and have queued up your spaceship parts, only to have my only source of aluminium go "PooF"...

It was down to me and the Russians. I had lots of Infantry and Artillery and some tanks, they had 3 MA armies that I could see, and lots of single MA units. A graceful retirement was in order, despite the fact I had a higher score (500 points higher and they had conquered the rest of the world) than the Russians at the time.

A man's got to know his limitations...

D.

Aeson · August 13, 2002, 19:38

With the Egyptians, in a game specifically to build every wonder, I would of course trigger the GA with the Pyramids. For the Egyptians, timing the Collosus, Oracle, and Pyramids for the same turn is the holy grail IMO, it can completely cut off the first tier of AI spillovers. The Pyramids can be delayed for a few turns though. A beeline for either Republic or Monarchy can be done by that time. I would probably go for Monarchy (Oracle is on the way, trade for Bronze Working) and do a little early conquest, then once a few (2-3) luxuries are hooked up, switch to a Republic.

For a more 'power' approach, leaving out at least some of the wonder building, Arrian's suggestion is good for the timing. Using WC's about the same time if you don't want to build the HG.

Gold is going to be rare until the Middle Ages when the AI start paying gpt for tech deals. Selling world maps is a good income source in the Ancient Era, depending on the number of AI and landmass size of course. Even simple things like new terrain improvements will get the AI's to pay a couple gold per turn for the maps.

Try to keep all the AI's about evenly advanced, so 'old' techs can keep their coffers dry. The Ancient Era techs after you are in a Republic should be 4 turns at less than 100% research. The Pyramids save shields (if you have 6+ cities) and gpt on their own, cutting out the need for Granaries.

Gen.Dragolen · August 14, 2002, 00:42

Aeson,

I can see how it should work, if everything goes well.

This game approximates one fact of combat all too well: if anything can go wrong, it will. I have lost Elite Swordsmen attacking regular warriors and archers on open ground on a regular basis, which tends to really put a damper on troop morale at times. One of the worst cases was loosing two veteran swordsman trying to take out an archer who had only one hp left when I attacked. It took a third elite to finish him... and not even a GL for the trouble... sheesh.

I just prepare for high casualties on any campaign which is one reason I tend to fall behind in the Wonder Races.

D.