Director of Base Production or not ?

[Juliennew]

Here is the work for the Director of Base Production :

Director of Base Production
The Director of BP has the last word on what goes into the build queues. He may not decide what exactly is being built, but he does have the power to allocate builds to other directors as he sees fit, and also has the power to abort any build that he deems unnecessary

In summary : He is the mediator of what should be built in the bases

The poll will last three days

[AdamTG02]

I voted YES; however, I prefer the proposed name Director of Industry and Energy.

Whoops! Has been edited to say Director rather than Minister which was what I meant to post.

[DeathByTheSword]

but we already had a DIRECTOR (! ) of I and E but with an other job?

[Juliennew]

I thought of an idea to equalize power between the Directors.

Each Director should take care of the buildings concerning his department

The Director of Research propose all demands concerning lab buildings (Network nodes ...)
The Director of Energy and Industry propose all demands concerning energy buildings (energy bank ...)
The Director of SE propose all demands concerning happinness building (Holographic theater ...)
The Director of PO propose all demands concerning military units

Finally, the Director of Base Production take care of the priority of all the demands.

[Method]

i'd rather leave it all to the director of I&E. who would suggest a fusion lab? (+50% econ, +50%labs)

[Juliennew]

who would suggest a fusion lab? (+50% econ, +50%labs)

The 2 directors. If the building have an effect linked with your department, you can propose it. It is very simple.

[Juliennew]

i'd rather leave it all to the director of I&E

The problem is that he is also taking care of the treasury so he won't be objective choosing the building queues.

[AdamTG02]

As I understand it, the two jobs are linked because the main use for funds is hurrying production.

What do people think? Would this bias production too heavily toward energy-increasing improvements? Personally, I think it's reasonable as long as the I&E Director works closely with the Directors of Science and Social Engineering. But I can see the other point of view.

[Leland]

Originally posted by AdamTG02
As I understand it, the two jobs are linked because the main use for funds is hurrying production.

Well, that could still be up to Director of E&I (DEI). I don't see a conflict between one person deciding what to build, and another person deciding whether to hurry it or not, especially since they will cooperate anyway.

Would this bias production too heavily toward energy-increasing improvements?

No... I don't think DEI has any special preference for energy production, any more than Director of Peacekeeping Operations necessarily has to be a warmonger. However, I am worried that one director might get too much power, and essentially be running the show. Consider the duties of old DEI:

- places workers
- sets energy rates (with Director of SE)
- hurries/cancels production
- builds special projects
- builds base facilities
- builds military units
- builds terraformers/crawlers
- builds probes
- is consulted regarding all pacts and treaties

Compare this to the Director of Exploring and Intelligence:

- moves probes
- what else?

See? I have no doubts that we can manage without the Director of Base Production, but I also think that it'd be much more balanced and entertaining if we don't have one big-ass Director of Everything.

On the other hand, I'm against subdividing the base facilities to Directors of Research, etc. That would be an overkill.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm very, very tired (been up for 18 hours straight) but how about having two equal Ds of BP preferrably from different parties? And get rid of the D of E and I and combine it to, dunno D of D?

[Juliennew]

Consider the duties of old DEI:

- places workers
- sets energy rates (with Director of SE)
- hurries/cancels production
- builds special projects
- builds base facilities
- builds military units
- builds terraformers/crawlers
- builds probes
- is consulted regarding all pacts and treaties

Please go read the constitution, it has been already changed and divided between the Director of Energy and Industry and the Director of Terraformation and Colonization.
Here are the duties I think the Director of Energy and Industry should do :
- sets energy rates (with Director of SE AND Director of Research ---> The lab rate concern him)
- Submit the demands of building special projects to the Director of Base Production (Like the base facilities, every Director can do this if the SP concern his department ---> For example, the Director of Energy and Industry can ask for the Stock Echange)
- Submit the demands of building base facilities concerning only energy production to the Director of Base Production
- Cooperate with the Director of Foreign Affairs when energy credits are part of a deal

On the other hand, I'm against subdividing the base facilities to Directors of Research, etc.

In my opinion, It would equalize the power between the Directors and make Democracy game much more sense because of the need of a consensus between all the Directors.
Concerning the Ecological buildings, I think it is up to the Director of SE to take care of them.
Concerning the Director of Exploration and Intelligence, please go read the Constitution :
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=1
It is the second one that is currently update, in the middle of the page.

[Leland]

Originally posted by Juliennew
Please go read the constitution, it has been already changed and divided between the Director of Energy and Industry and the Director of Terraformation and Colonization.

Uh, no it's not...

Anyway, I like what you suggested above, and everyone else seems to like it as well if this poll is any indication, so we should add Director of BP to the constitution.

About different directors being able to propose facilities relating to them... I just changed my mind. It could actually work, if the director of Base Production has the final word. All in all, I'd like the directorate to have rather clear division of duties instead of every decisions being made together and in consensus. Perhaps this will not lead to the best possible overall strategy, but it might make the politics more interesting.

[DeathByTheSword]

I am working on rewriting the constitution. it will take a while and maybe i will never post it but is has some serioes flaws right now. and has to change big time but that is where the first commissioner comes in he has to regulate all the wanted changes in the constitution.!

[Juliennew]

It could actually work, if the director of Base Production has the final word

Yes, the Director of BP would have the final word.

[Tactical Marine]

I have an idea dont know if it has been said or really where to but it put here it is:

We have our military, finaciale science leaders like normal, however here is where the fun come in. We have governers of either a) each base or b) a proveince like 3-4 cities or whatever. They decide what terrafrorming should be done and what to build in each base. They can consult with the differnt heads and decide on what would be the best thing to produce would be. They are also in charge of resource allolication. This will ensure we are getting the best out of our cities. These people can either be elected or placed by the Commissioner. Well it that the worst idea ever?

[DeathByTheSword]

i LIKE THE IDEA exept:

terraforming better make it factionwide control for one person

and can we get enough people for the job?

[Method]

could somone hold a director's and governor's position at the same time?

[DeathByTheSword]

i would say no confliting interest but if we do not have enough people why not?! but if this goes thru the directore has to be balacend out again

[Darkness' Edge]

This idea has my support.

[gopher]

Sure. This way we really justify that -1 Effic hit.

[MrWhereItsAt]

When putting my name down as a candidate for Director of BP, I saw the role as a mediator between the Ministers. This Director would appear in the threads started by the Ministers and let everyone know what the conflicts were, and if necessary poll on several proposed build queues that were assembled from the poll results in order to determine the peoples' will. I hope this Director would not have to actually mediate between warring Ministers, but as can be seen in the Civ3 game right now, that situation can occur. In this case I expect the Director would have the state of mind to be able to calm things and continue the game moving.

[Leland]

The way I see it, there are basically three different ways Director of BP can act...

1) Decide in advance which bases do what, and then assign bases to corresponding Directors so that they can build whatever they need (e.g. "Base A builds military stuff, base B builds terraformers").

2) Wait until other directors have come up with proposals regarding the production (e.g. D of PO wants missile squad, D of TC wants a terraformer), and then choose between conflicting proposals.

3) Take actively part in all threads and negotiate a consensus (this is what MrWhereItsAt seemed to prefer).

I can see that different people might want to use different ways of handling the office, and I believe we should let them have that chance.

[Juliennew]

Anyway, the poll is clear : The citizens wants this cabinet

[MrWhereItsAt]

/me dances a touchdown dance


YES!

And I'm running unopposed. I WILL be the first poster to hold posts in all three demo games.

Help MrWhereItsAt realise his dream. Vote for him in the elections, both Civ3 and SMAC.

[Maniac]

I think the directorates of Energy & Industry has become a rather hollow directorate. Now he no longer controls base production, and now the control of supply crawlers has been transferred to Terraformation & Colonization, the only things left to do for E&I is placing workers , hurrying some production from time to time and crying to build an energy bank, the only pure-economy building in the game which can't be covered by another directorate. Therefore I would like to propose to merge this directorate with SE, who only has to organize polls from time to time on SE and is in charge of psych and drones. Merged together the SE Director has a decent portfolio as valuable as the other directorates:

Worker placement
Social Engineering
Drone Control
Production Hurrying (you need to talk to labour unions to get this done, thus social affairs )

The construction of energy banks can be left to the Director of Base Production, which could be recalled to the more important-sounding D of Economy. I know there are legitimate worries that D of Eco might abuse his directorate to build the facilities he wants in all bases, but with only energy banks under his control the danger is minimal so I believe...

Perhaps we could also merge the director of Foreign Affairs with Intelligence. When those are merged as well, I think every directorate has a decent and lasting portfolio. Now the importance of D of Intel would decline after the first hundred years.

What do you say. Just some suggestions...

[Method]

well if not to change the job, i'd like to change the name of industry and energy to economy. it just gets too confusing. when someone says director of I&E, you dont know if they mean industry and energy or intelligence and exploration.

[AdamTG02]

The problem with that is that the major task of the Minister of the Economy in the Civ 3 game -- adjusting the slider -- falls under Social Engineering here. So, without the ability to set the economy/science/psych rate, what will the Director of the Economy do? Keep track of income and expenditures, but he won't be able to spend money (that'd be base production or foreign) or invest in energy banks (base production again).

The one thing that the Director of the Economy would be able to do would be assigning workers and specialists -- which hardly seems, in my mind, to justify a separate Directorate.

{edit: I was confused at the time I wrote this post. Se my later post on this page.)

[Maniac]

Exactly what I meant. So throw the whole directorate under SE.

[Leland]

What the heck are you guys talking about? Director of Energy and Industry has power over base facilities (at least energy/minerals related) and special projects, as well as hurrying production. If you add worker placement and negotiations with everything energy related into the mix, he's got plenty of things to do...

[Maniac]

Ah yes of course! I forgot about mineral-improving facilities! My mistake. Yes that might give him a decent portfolio after all.

Btw, is assigning specialists under SE or E&I?