How to dominate on the huge map with 16 civs

[Lord Merciless]

I'm playing Roman on the huge continental map. As expected, Legionary proves to very useful in kicking your neighbors's butt during ancient and early medieval age. My continent has 5 civs including mine, and they are: Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Americans, and Aztecs.

Also as expected, Americans used their Expansionist trait to spread out and built many worthless cities, and they had the guts to declare war against me when dozens of my Legionaries were already marching toward their cities. They got eliminated around 300BC. 1 GL was generated in my short war against Americans whom I used to promptly build an Army.

Now it's time to pick the next target. Greeks have Hoplites which can really devastate my Legionaries, and Aztecs were bottled up by me and had no access to either Iron or Horses. I can take both of them later on. The decision fell on the Egyptians who had actually created a quite sizeable Swordsman force. I started my offensive against around 0AD, and had to fight all the way until 500AD. But it was the Egyptian campagne which generated a whopping 5 GLs! I used 2 of them for Armies and the rest
for Forbidden Palace, Great Library, and the Sistine Chapel.

As a side note, the Great Library yielded 7 techs total.

Going after Aztecs was much easier since they didn't have any kind of decent resources. 2 GLs were generated during the fight and I used for Sun Tzu's and Leonardo's.

I resumed my offensive against Aztec island cities around 800AD and finished them off in 920AD.

Now I'm at 1000AD. The main continent with 8 civs on them is the problem. All civs there seem to be in harmony with each other. The tech rate was really fast, and 1.29f makes buying techs no longer profitable. I think I'll try the following approach: research techs as fast as I can afford, and then hope to find a buyer on the main continent. Then I can use their payments to finance even more research.

But I'm still faced with the question about how to get AI to fight each other. Any suggestions?



EDIT: the game is at Emperor level.

[Lord Merciless]

Here is the map of the known world:

I'm the red. The faint rectangle indicates the Forbidden Palace, and the faint circle indicates the Capital.

[Lord Merciless]

Here is my general economic situation:

[Aeson]

Declare war on someone on the other continent. Within a few turns the AI's will see how 'well' you are doing and want to join in. By 'well' I mean that you have more power than your opponent. Unless the AI are already at war, it's by far the cheapest way of getting alliances, you might even get something for it. Since you are in a Monarchy, you can stay at war for as long as you want, pick on the leading AI in a Republic (Germany?) if you can. By the end of 20 turns they won't be the leader any more. If you really want to cause problems, declare war with everyone in a Republic and just wait them out or make them switch governments.

From the looks of things, the AI couldn't reach you even if they wanted to yet anyways, so it's completely safe until Navigation or Magnetism. The only drawback is that it's sort of an exploit.

[Lord Merciless]

Thanks, Aeson. What's the chance of other Civs joining in an alliance with me? Despite my power, I simply don't have the means to carry out direct intervention on the mainland. I think I'll just start picking on someone to stirr the things a little bit.

[Arrian]

Hmm, Palace/FP setup is pretty good, but not exactly how I would have done it. Doesn't matter now, though.

As for the mega continent...

Aeson's got the right idea. I'd take it a set or two further. You have no WW concerns. Excellent. What you need to do is build up a large strike force and have it offshore when you are ready to pick a fight (set this up ASAP!). This force should include a settler, btw.

Your target is a coastal or near-coastal AI city with luxuries. If you think you can nab more than one such city, DO SO. Meanwhile, get the other AI's to pile on your target civ and destroy it. Meanwhile, scheme the next theft. This will increase your people's happiness and expand your trading possibility. The AI will pay lots for luxuries. You can drain their economies and beef up yours, or even use the luxuries to entice civs into alliances that will be their destruction.

Feel free to use the vast majority of your armed forces in this. You have a small border with Greece, which makes it very defensible.

Otherwise, you need to change over to democracy, PRONTO.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Hmm, I was thinking some more... I want more info:

1) What is your offensive capability (what units do you have, how many do you have, and what units are available to build)

2) What are the AI's best units (are we talkin' Cavalry/Riflemen here?)

3) Do you have magnetism yet? You need galleons to move 3-unit armies, and those armies will be a big help (I assume they are 3 legionaries each?)

Some more advice for the invasion:

-Bring some bombard units
-In your new city (built with the settler you brought along) rush the following, in this order: Barracks, Walls, *maybe a spearman or two if you brought over primarly offensive troops* harbor (now upgrade spears), temple.

-if possible, build this city on a hill

The AI will throw units at this city. Your cannon will hurt them, and your Cavalry will finish them off. I've used this many times. It can be a leader generation machine. Meanwhile, your allies are chewing the enemy to pieces.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I can always get an alliance by about the 5th turn of war, not sure if that's because of other factors or not though. The longer a war goes on (assuming that nothing happens on either side), the more the AI will offer for peace, and the better deal the other AI's will offer for alliances in that war.

Arrian's suggestion is the next step once you have Magnetism or Navigation and can safely transport troops. Keeping the AI's out of Republics (or at least viable Republics) with war weariness should make for a much easier conquest.

BTW, find the other 3(?) civs! Looks like they'd be south from your 'Florida'... your continent looks a bit like a fish-eyed US map.

[Lord Merciless]

My offensive capability is not all that great. I only have 9 Knights built so far and the bulk of my force is the Legionary.

The world is only one tech away from Magnetism, that means Cavalry and Riflemen are not too far off.

I don't think I'll have enough time to build a large enough force and get to the mainland before the AI built lots of Riflemen. I do plan to eliminate the Greeks first, they are technologically very backward(still using the Hoplite) and should be easy pickings for my Cavalry. Plus, they are building Atlanta(their neighboring city to my territory) like crazy and trying to borg my neighboring city Buffalo.

Three more civs are still unaccounted for: Persians, Babylonians, and Zulus. No other civs seem to have made contact with them either. They must be hiding somewhere in that dark unexplored map region. If any of these civs have nice luxuries, I'll go pick on them before taking on the mainland.

[Arrian]

Ah, ok. Take down Greece and then see if you can crush some of those other island civs you haven't met yet.

This does kinda illustrate the problem with Legionaries, though. Solid unit in it's age, but no upgrade path. Which is why I so prefer a horde of horsemen. Around the same time in the game I just finished, I researched Chivalry and *POOF* had 36 Riders. Then Cavalry.

You need to build a few more knights/cavalry. If you have about 15 of 'em, plus your legionaries and your armies, Greece should go down like a ton of bricks (well... do they have saltpeter?).

-Arrian

[Lord Merciless]

I plan to build an initial Cavalry force of 30 by 1150AD and to crush the Greeks around 1200AD.

I forgot to mention that I have 2 unused Armies available.

I should be able to get some turns tonight and see how my plan works out.

[alexman]

Originally posted by Arrian
This does kinda illustrate the problem with Legionaries, though. Solid unit in it's age, but no upgrade path. Which is why I so prefer a horde of horsemen. Around the same time in the game I just finished, I researched Chivalry and *POOF* had 36 Riders. Then Cavalry.

Very good point. That's probably why they're adding the new medieval infantry unit in PtW. It will really make for better game balance, if they do it right.

[Lord Merciless]

I played until 3 in the morning and got all the way to 1300AD. Here is what has happened:

I declared war on the weak and poor Iroquois, and quickly got all their neighors against them, too. The Iroquois went down a little too hard for my taste, with Chinese profiting the most. Also the Japanese and the French profited quite a bit. But the pot is stirred. After the Iroquois were eliminated, Germany also declared war against England and completedly whooped their ass in less than 20 turns. In a separate instance, the French went after the Indians and took several of their cities. It appears that 4 major powers begin to emerge on the main continent, making for some very interesting diplomacies.

My research has been going really well. Since the AI Civs focuse much their energies on war fighting, I was able to get ahead in tech and regularly sell them for cash. My extra income ranges from 300 to 600 gpt.

The Greek campagn was very easy. I started the offensive with 24 Cavalries in 1160AD. By 1270AD Greece was no more. The good news that most the newly conquered cities actually produce something. I have a screenshot about Atlanta 12 turns after its capture. Maybe the Commercial trait is really good on huge maps?

The last three "lost" civs, the Persians, the Babylonians, and the Zulus, have been found. Well, the Zulus are all but wiped out under the combined assaults from their neighbors. These civs are incredibly low on techs. The Persians has only begun to research the Gunpowder, while the Babylonians just got past Feudalism and Monotheism. In addition, Persians have the Colossus and many Spices around Persepolis. They will become the next target of my imperial expansion.

However, the challenge now is Germany, who has grown way too powerful after the annexation of England. There must be a way to get other mainland civs allied and to take on Germany simulaneously. Since the bulk of my force and transports will be used in the Persian campagn, I still can't interfere directly on the mainland.

What's next, guys?

[Lord Merciless]

This is the main screen:

[Lord Merciless]

Here is my military:

[Lord Merciless]

Next, the power graph:

[Lord Merciless]

Atlanta 12 turns after its capture:

[Theseus]

Good job getting them to mix it up.

Declare war on Germany, and purchase alliances with China, France, and Japan.

At some point, you should take part yourself. Does Germany have any juicy target cities on its west coast?

[Arrian]

Oh, I think you can interefere on the mainland. You now have a powerful strike force. 43 Cavalry will pack a serious punch. 2 armies of Cavalry, right? Those are your nutcrackers - please tell me you only have 3 cavs in each army (the Pentagon will allow you to add a fourth to each... but they won't fit in galleons then). Ok, so 6 cavs in the armies, plus 37 others... that's about 10 galleon loads. Add in the 3 cannon, a settler, and say... 16 riflemen. That's 5 more galleon loads.

There has been a lot of war on the main continent. I can see from the map that, as usual, gaps have opened up in the AI's cultural borders. Pick a good spot, close to something valueable like a luxury or resource, and stick a city there. Get it a barracks/walls/harbor/temple and pour in your entire army. If you haven't been attacked by the time it's assembled, pick the fight yourself. Looks like there is a nice coastal gap area where England used to be.

Call in allies. Whether the initial German assault on your "colony" and then counterattack - grab luxuries. Cities on the mainland will not be productive, so they have to pay for themselves in other ways: forward bases to continue beating on the AI, and sources of resources/luxuries for your people.

Clearly, you could decide to wipe the floor with Persia/Babylon instead.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

"My research has been going really well. Since the AI Civs focuse much their energies on war fighting, I was able to get ahead in tech and regularly sell them for cash. My extra income ranges from 300 to 600 gpt."

The other option, appealing to a child of the 60s, is to declare victory after a job well done and reload. This one's over.

[MJW]

What level are you playing on?

[Bambul]

How did you capture a Greek settler?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by MJW
What level are you playing on?

Settings:
Emperor level
Huge Map
16 Civs

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Bambul
How did you capture a Greek settler?

I didn't capture it, I built the settler in a city full of Greeks.

[Lord Merciless]

Here is the conclusion to this game. I failed to achieve the Domination victory by 2-3 turns and won through culture in year 1780AD. Some comments on this game:

- AI is too easy to manipulate if you have extra techs available. They will agree to anything ranging from MPP to ROP to Military Alliance. In the later stage of this game, the AI Civs should be GANGING up on me, but they didn't. I was always able to form military alliances on a 3:1 basis.

- Commercial civ is very useful for large empires on bigger maps. Despite my many newly conquered cities, the corruption didn't exceed 25% overall. In the end, I have 100+ cities.

- MAs are brutal. They cut through Infantries like knife through butter. In year 1776AD, France had 20 cities. By the end of that year, they were eliminated. With current MA force, I should be able to wipe our the remaining 2 civs in 1 turn.

- The end game was very tedious and micromanagement intensive. Moving all those workers to clean up pollutions was really painful. Another benefit of Industrious civs is that you need to move fewer workers later in the game.

- The advice several posters gave me are quite useful. The game was executed almost like a program.

[Lord Merciless]

I think the winning picture is really funny:

[Lord Merciless]

The corruption is quite tame:

[Lord Merciless]

The military has grown quite large and it takes forever to get them moved. Stack movements would be nice.

[Lord Merciless]

The second part of the military:

[Lord Merciless]

This game had been quite vicious. 13 Civs were destroyed in an endless war of acquisitions. I had eliminated 8 of them: Americans, Egyptians, Aztecs, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, Indians, and French.