Neantherdals

[Hydey]

theory states that "Neandertals were not in fact a separate species, but interbred to a greater or lesser extent with the incoming Homo sapiens, whose genes eventually became dominant at the eventual expense of the genes delivering Neanderthal characteristics" (Caird 1994:150). This hypothesis comes from the fact that Neandertals and Cro-Magnons inhabited the same regions of Europe for thousands of years. It is not beyond a doubt that they did come in contact with one another, possibly even trading and communicating. Evidence from the site of Auxerre in France suggests that Neandertals, like their successors, were using pierced or grooved animal teeth and ivory rings as jewelry. According to archaeologist, Jean-Jacques Hublin, of the Musee de l'Homme in Paris, "Neanderthals were not imitating Cro-Magnon artisans but actively trading with them" (Begley 1996:61).

With the idea of interbreeding in mind, many scientists "see a more gradual replacement--not by people but by modern genes that spread viruslike around the world, slowly transforming populations" (Gore 1996:34). In this scenario, the genes of Cro-Magnon and the Neandertals would have blended together to produce modern Europeans. When viewing the "late," or "progressive" Neandertals and modern humans, there seems to be a transition between the two. The Saint-Cesaire skull, for example, has an absence of facial projection, which some anthropologists cite as evidence of a hybridization between the two races. Other instances include modern humans with more prominent brow ridges and low vaulted skulls, which are strong Neandertal traits.

[Ethelred]

http://www.archaeology.org/0007/abs...eandertals.html

Nice link. One of the better ones I have seen for human evolution.

[finbar]

On a different - but related - tack, I'd dearly love to know what happened to the Etruscans. As would a lot of people.

[notyoueither]

SPQR

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by finbar
On a different - but related - tack, I'd dearly love to know what happened to the Etruscans. As would a lot of people.

The Romans had some wars with them. Presumably the survivors became:

Refugees - moving to other cities in the area. Many of those would have been Greek colonies.

Dead

Enslaved

Joined in with the Romans to eventually become part of Romanized Italy. I suspect this was largest group.


http://members.tripod.com/~Centime/E.../history4.html

[Ecthy]

Please stop misspelling that word, AH

[finbar]

Ethelred - Yeah. I was pottering around Umbria last year, looking at a lot of the sites, reading a lot about them. Fascinating people. That link you posted points to a couple of popular theories.

[Hydey]

I believe that neandertols sent there circumsized sons off to all male schools run by marist brothers

[TheStinger]

One example is alive and well playing centre half for Arsenal and England

[reds4ever]

as for breeding out, no one has found any traces of neanderthal DNA in the genome of any modern human?? of course 'absence of proof' and all that....but i'm still skeptical

[Hydey]

The capital city of portugal (Lisbon) had 15% of it population in 1600 AD recorded as balack due to the slave trade, none of there DNA exists due to interbreeding, if that can happen in 400 years I imagine the neanderthol DNA could be gone by 20,000 years.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Hydey
The capital city of portugal (Lisbon) had 15% of it population in 1600 AD recorded as balack due to the slave trade, none of there DNA exists due to interbreeding, if that can happen in 400 years I imagine the neanderthol DNA could be gone by 20,000 years.

is that true? (and i'm not saying it isn't) thats some stat!

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Hydey
I believe that neandertols sent there circumsized sons off to all male schools run by marist brothers

I hate to break this to you Hydey but I suspect the marist brothers went the way of the Neanderthals about 20 years ago

[Hydey]

http://www.maristoz.edu.au/index.php

Oh did they, I must have made a mistake

[Dry]

Originally posted by reds4ever
is that true? (and i'm not saying it isn't) thats some stat!

Could be (I don't say it is). I've been answered the same kind of thing about Viking genes absent from American Natives.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by finbar
That link you posted points to a couple of popular theories.

Hydar posted it. I was quoting it.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by reds4ever
as for breeding out, no one has found any traces of neanderthal DNA in the genome of any modern human?? of course 'absence of proof' and all that....but i'm still skeptical

No. For one thing little DNA has been found that was intact enough for a test. The test was done looked like the stretch of DNA had been drifting away from what we have for much longer than the age of the fossil. However the Mung man in Australia shows a fairly similar amount of diference so it may simply be that the theory was overestimating how little drift there should be if Neanderthal ever interbred viably with Sapiens.

In other words, at present it looks unlikely but it remains possible. Prior to the Australian test it was though to fairly good evidence that there was no interbreeding. The DNA evidence at the moment is ambiguios.

[Caligastia]

Adam's blood has been shared with most of the human races, but some secured more than others. The mixed races of India and the darker peoples of Africa were not attractive to the Adamites. They would have mixed freely with the red man had he not been far removed in the Americas, and they were kindly disposed toward the yellow man, but he was likewise difficult of access in faraway Asia. Therefore, when actuated by either adventure or altruism, or when driven out of the Euphrates valley, they very naturally chose union with the blue races of Europe.

The blue men, then dominant in Europe, had no religious practices which were repulsive to the earlier migrating Adamites, and there was great sex attraction between the violet and the blue races. The best of the blue men deemed it a high honor to be permitted to mate with the Adamites. Every blue man entertained the ambition of becoming so skillful and artistic as to win the affection of some Adamite woman, and it was the highest aspiration of a superior blue woman to receive the attentions of an Adamite.

Slowly these migrating sons of Eden united with the higher types of the blue race, invigorating their cultural practices while ruthlessly exterminating the lingering strains of Neanderthal stock. This technique of race blending, combined with the elimination of inferior strains, produced a dozen or more virile and progressive groups of superior blue men, one of which you have denominated the Cro-Magnons.

For these and other reasons, not the least of which was more favorable paths of migration, the early waves of Mesopotamian culture made their way almost exclusively to Europe. And it was these circumstances that determined the antecedents of modern European civilization.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Neanderthals awere human as were all member of the genus "Homo". It is still under debate wheather the were even a different species than modern humans or a different sub-species or race.

[Caligastia]

THE NEANDERTHAL RACES
The Neanderthalers were excellent fighters, and they traveled extensively. They gradually spread from the highland centers in northwest India to France on the west, China on the east, and even down into northern Africa. They dominated the world for almost half a million years until the times of the migration of the evolutionary races of color.

800,000 years ago game was abundant; many species of deer, as well as elephants and hippopotamuses, roamed over Europe. Cattle were plentiful; horses and wolves were everywhere. The Neanderthalers were great hunters, and the tribes in France were the first to adopt the practice of giving the most successful hunters the choice of women for wives.

The reindeer was highly useful to these Neanderthal peoples, serving as food, clothing, and for tools, since they made various uses of the horns and bones. They had little culture, but they greatly improved the work in flint until it almost reached the levels of the days of Andon. Large flints attached to wooden handles came back into use and served as axes and picks.

750,000 years ago the fourth ice sheet was well on its way south. With their improved implements the Neanderthalers made holes in the ice covering the northern rivers and thus were able to spear the fish which came up to these vents. Ever these tribes retreated before the advancing ice, which at this time made its most extensive invasion of Europe.

In these times the Siberian glacier was making its southernmost march, compelling early man to move southward, back toward the lands of his origin. But the human species had so differentiated that the danger of further mingling with its nonprogressive simian relatives was greatly lessened.

700,000 years ago the fourth glacier, the greatest of all in Europe, was in recession; men and animals were returning north. The climate was cool and moist, and primitive man again thrived in Europe and western Asia. Gradually the forests spread north over land which had been so recently covered by the glacier.

Mammalian life had been little changed by the great glacier. These animals persisted in that narrow belt of land lying between the ice and the Alps and, upon the retreat of the glacier, again rapidly spread out over all Europe. There arrived from Africa, over the Sicilian land bridge, straight-tusked elephants, broad-nosed rhinoceroses, hyenas, and African lions, and these new animals virtually exterminated the saber-toothed tigers and the hippopotamuses.

650,000 years ago witnessed the continuation of the mild climate. By the middle of the interglacial period it had become so warm that the Alps were almost denuded of ice and snow.

600,000 years ago the ice had reached its then northernmost point of retreat and, after a pause of a few thousand years, started south again on its fifth excursion. But there was little modification of climate for fifty thousand years. Man and the animals of Europe were little changed. The slight aridity of the former period lessened, and the alpine glaciers descended far down the river valleys.

550,000 years ago the advancing glacier again pushed man and the animals south. But this time man had plenty of room in the wide belt of land stretching northeast into Asia and lying between the ice sheet and the then greatly expanded Black Sea extension of the Mediterranean.

These times of the fourth and fifth glaciers witnessed the further spread of the crude culture of the Neanderthal races. But there was so little progress that it truly appeared as though the attempt to produce a new and modified type of intelligent life on Urantia was about to fail. For almost a quarter of a million years these primitive peoples drifted on, hunting and fighting, by spells improving in certain directions, but, on the whole, steadily retrogressing as compared with their superior Andonic ancestors.

During these spiritually dark ages the culture of superstitious mankind reached its lowest levels. The Neanderthalers really had no religion beyond a shameful superstition. They were deathly afraid of clouds, more especially of mists and fogs. A primitive religion of the fear of natural forces gradually developed, while animal worship declined as improvement in tools, with abundance of game, enabled these people to live with lessened anxiety about food; the sex rewards of the chase tended greatly to improve hunting skill. This new religion of fear led to attempts to placate the invisible forces behind these natural elements and culminated, later on, in the sacrificing of humans to appease these invisible and unknown physical forces. And this terrible practice of human sacrifice has been perpetuated by the more backward peoples of Urantia right on down to the twentieth century.

These early Neanderthalers could hardly be called sun worshipers. They rather lived in fear of the dark; they had a mortal dread of nightfall. As long as the moon shone a little, they managed to get along, but in the dark of the moon they grew panicky and began the sacrifice of their best specimens of manhood and womanhood in an effort to induce the moon again to shine. The sun, they early learned, would regularly return, but the moon they conjectured only returned because they sacrificed their fellow tribesmen. As the race advanced, the object and purpose of sacrifice progressively changed, but the offering of human sacrifice as a part of religious ceremonial long persisted.

[Ethelred]

Caligastia

What crackpot site did you get that ridiculous nonsense from?

Its heretical even for a Creationist. It ignores all physical evidence and for the Creationists it ignores the only source of the Adam story. Its unbiblical and unscientific. Its a crock no matter how you look at it.

Neat trick that.

I will say this for it. It is free of any signs of thought, reality, or even any well known religion. Its some of the purest crap I have ever seen.

[Caligastia]

Who says Im a creationist? How is it unscientific?

[Dry]

Originally posted by Ethelred
What crackpot site did you get that ridiculous nonsense from?

To paraphrase the Boat Anchor:

Two questions:
- What did the guy smoke?
- May we have some?

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Who says Im a creationist?

I don't know. I sure didn't.

How is it unscientific?

Its crap. Dates are wrong by hundreds of thousands of years. What are Blue men and where did the author get such an idea. There sure isn't any evidence and without evidence its not scientific.

Thats enough since you did not answer my question you really have no business asking any. You marked that fertilizer as a quote. I asked what your source was and you have refrained from answering.

Again what is the source?

Inquiring minds want to know. That way we can have a ready source of manure for the crops.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Again what is the source?

The author is unknown, but a link to the book is in my sig.

[Alexander's Horse]

I find it hard to believe that Neanderthals and humans interbred after I saw a program that went into a lot of detail about their physiology. Superficially they were similar to humans but physiologically they were very different, by which I mean very unattractive breeding partners. Breeding with captives perhaps but not by choice on either side I suspect.

One interesting thing is that human technology keeps getting more sophisticated in the overlap period but Neanderthal technology remains pretty static. Climate change is also thought may have been a factor in their demise. They don't seem to have moved around much.

But the thing is the Neanderthals were stronger than humans so it may have been a brains over braun thing in the end.

The last place Neanderthals survived was the Iberian peninsula, which makes sense when you consider Spanish waiters.

[Caligastia]

So interbreeding was impossible because female neanderthals were so ugly that arousal was impossible?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Caligastia
So interbreeding was impossible because female neanderthals were so ugly that arousal was impossible?

Ho ho, very droll

It may have been possible but is unlikely to have been widespread because they were so different, physiologically, culturally and so forth.

Actually one of the definitions of another species is the inability to breed successfully.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Caligastia


The authors unknown, but a link to the book is in my sig.

The authors are known. They just lied or were delusional. Both is definitly possible.

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.

Thats as credible as the Book of Mormon. In other words not at all.

Oh this one is really good.



Where Did The Urantia Book Come From?

In the early 20th century, a physician practicing in Chicago became the head of a group known as the Contact Commission. This small group was the focal point for the production of, and the primary custodian for, the final text of The Urantia Book. They were sworn not to disclose details about the transactions in order to preclude future generations from venerating the participants. It was considered important that no individual might be exalted through their association with The Urantia Book. Because of its revelatory nature, the book stands on its own merit, nature and content.


So that way no can ask or even check to see it was a doctor or someone in an Asylum. Very good. Even Von Daniken could be asked questions.

Such a source. Right up there with Edgar Cayce but at least you could check on him.

[Caligastia]

Fine, dont read it then. Your loss.