The Apolytonian Thinkers Guild

DAVOUT · August 9, 2002, 07:05

The idea of a Thinkers Guild is as old as the Apolytonian Republic; it was recently awaken by Chandragupta, and the considerable achievements of the War Academy and the Machiavelli Institute show that some crucial concepts of the game did not fall in their specialized areas (War and Diplomacy). This is the purpose of the Thinkers Guild: try to clarify what is not already analysed by other institutions.

Nobody will be surprised that thinkers have started thinking before the formal inception of the Guild! This will be regularized by this post.

Note that the Apolytonian Thinkers Guild is neither a political party nor a governmental office. Like the illustrious War Academy and Machiavelli Institute it is a place to discuss and learn from each other, not to decide. We will discuss various ideas, trying to extract from appearances and prejudices the hard core and potential consequences. This will be made available to the government and to everybody for their own thinking in preparing decisions. Members of all political parties are welcome as well as all other citizens of Apolytonia.

Four simple rules:

1 - Every citizen of Apolytonia has the right and is explicitly encouraged to take part in the discussions. Questions and comments are welcome.

2 - Every citizen of Apolytonia who agrees with the spirit of the Guild has the right to join the Guild staff.

3 - Every member of the Thinkers Guild has the right to open discussion threads. They shall be marked with the words "Thinkers Guild: (thread title)". So if somebody wants to discuss about Political issues, the thread title should be: "Thinkers Guild: Political issues" or similar. They will take care not to duplicate threads already opened.

4 - We expect our members and visitors to keep seriousness. Spam posts like "The Banana thinks for you!" or "Kill them all before they think!" or similar and off-topic posts are unwelcome.
(This is a shameless plagiarism of the War Academy post : Thanks Sir Ralph!)

And now, citizens of Apolytonia : Think fast, think deep, think always !

All citizens who have already posted in threads under the Thinkers Guild heading are considered as members, unless they disagree.

Guild staff
ThePlagueRat (Founder)
Chandragupta
DAVOUT (Secretary)
Godking
UberKruX
GePap
Spiffor
UnOrthOdOx
Aro
Aggie
Robber Baron
Sir Ralph
Papa Chubby
GoodFella
Panag
Jdjdjd
Epistax
Jonny
Carpathia
Vlad Antlerkov
adaMada
MrWhereItsAt
SwitchMoO
Kickbooti

Threads library

Topic Author Date
What does it means to be a builder ?DAVOUT 02/08/2002
Which victory ? DAVOUT 08/08/2002
How to discuss in a Civ3 Demo game? DAVOUT 20/08/2002
When should we have our Golden Age adaMada 25/08/2002
Still pop rushing ? DAVOUT 28/08/2002
Intellectual reports ThePlagueRat 18/09/2002

The Apolytonian Thinkers Guild

DAVOUT · August 9, 2002, 12:22

As I will be away untill august 24, citizens wanting to become members of the Thinkers Guild will just say so on this thread, and the members list will be updated as soon as I return.

adaMada · August 18, 2002, 11:16

I guess I might as well join, as I'm in all the other Guilds/Academies/Institutes/Foundations, and I'm sure I'll have some threads to post under the name of this one before too long as well

.

-- adaMada

MrWhereItsAt · August 18, 2002, 11:26

Why am I being ignored by so many? I have posted - why aren't I in the list?

Oh well, put me in. I hope not everyone has suddenly decided to put me on their ignore list.

El Presidente
MrWIA

DAVOUT · August 18, 2002, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Why am I being ignored by so many? I have posted - why aren't I in the list?

Oh well, put me in. I hope not everyone has suddenly decided to put me on their ignore list.

El Presidente
MrWIA

How could somebody believe one second that His Imperial Highness, El Presidente MrWhereItsAt Primero, has been ignored even by only one !

As I said in a post above, I was away a few days, which explains that I am only now able to celebrate the great honour HIH made to the Thinkers Guild.

DAVOUT · August 18, 2002, 18:53

adaMada,

You are welcome, and your threads as well !

Spiffor · August 18, 2002, 19:12

Good to see the thinker's guild back alive again. (not that i was an active member, but it's an interesting place of debate

)

I suppose the guild is here to think about "the big picture". My views on the big picture are :

- We will win against France and against America, because of our superior forces, tactics, and surprise.

- But we'll have a poor infrastructure and a corrupt land we'll have to correct by building, massively. If we want our great undertaking to be done before the end of Middle ages, we'll have to sacrifice everything for the sake of building (except our defensive troops).

- If we don't, we'll still have jungle and less than 12 pop. cities when railroads and hospitals come out.
Worse, we'll be outproduced by the "cheating" AI, namely Greeks and Germans : with a smaller and more worked country, Greeks and Germans will be industrial powerhouses during the early medieval era. With our barren land (except Apolyton and Termina), we'll be unable to match them.

- That's why I say we should avoid a knightwar at all costs. We simply can't be ready to face the pumped-up AI during this period.

- Once our great building undertaking is over (hopefully before military tradition), we would be ready to prepare dealing with the worst threat, which seem to be the Germans (industrial powerhouse with all these mountains, agressive gremlins)

- In the meantime, we should strive for good relationship with other countries, including France. Trading resources and luxuries would be a good way to go.

- Once the great building undertaking is over, we'll hve a choice between a war to expand our territory (Greece, Germany, France and Persia would all be likely targets), a war to prune the top power (probably Rome, Aztecs or Greece), or simply t build even more, in preparation of railroad.

DAVOUT · August 18, 2002, 19:38

Spiffor,

Our performance till now was made possible by our trait Industrious ; the building phase will be greatly helped by that trait, and makes me believe that we will not have to sacrifice everything as you said. The problem is that the Greeks will certainly not leave us alone, and after them, the Germans who are Industrious as we are. But they are also Scientific, and the management of the research will be of the utmost importance before the German war.
But we are Religious, and this trait can be utilized more than we did.
If we survive the wars against Greece and Germany, the future will be bright !

Aro · August 18, 2002, 21:14

The Germans are militaristic and scientific (One more reason to be aware. They will jump over us soon or later).
Btw, the Greeks are scientific and commercial.

Switch · August 18, 2002, 22:47

Despite my prolonged absence, I'm still here. I've been taking a vacation, and just got back. Count me for The Thinker's Guild

.

BTW, where can I find a recent map?

DAVOUT · August 19, 2002, 05:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Aro
The Germans are militaristic and scientific

Right. IMHO that makes the prospect slightly better.

DAVOUT · August 19, 2002, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by SwitchMoO

BTW, where can I find a recent map?

Youll find the Aro's wonderful map here :

Top: Term 3 Government and Forum Directory

Members list updated. Welcome !

Kickbooti · August 24, 2002, 01:12

I believe that once we gain knights we must engage in one more round of war-making.

I believe that after finishing off the Americans and emasculating the French we should take desirable portions of Greece (Argos, Sparta, perhaps Eritrea and the Ivory Coast) and if things go well, Hannover, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Cologne.

My rationale is such:

A) We have a large empire, we will need a sizable force of knights to secure our borders. The Germans, Persians and Greeks all pose potential (and considerable) threats. We will need units to contain them. Not to mention patroling the narrows to the Sub-continent; who knows what chaos Russians or Romans could seek to produce.

B) These wars would not only produce experienced units, but would potentially provide great leaders that could help rush the many desirable wonders that are available in the Medieval period.

C) Taking the eastern spur of Greece and/or the southern German teir would reduce their contries capacities both ecconomically, militarily and in terms of prodcution, while securing our borders and putting us in a position to threaten further attack.

If these campaigns are conducted sucessfully, I think that we should engage in a determined period of development that could expand our cluture and capacity.

But I believe these moves are necessary to secure the Great Basin and our rightful position of dominance in the world.

Always thinking,

Kickbooti:

DAVOUT · August 24, 2002, 04:38

Welcome Kickbooti.

It seems that the opinions differs mainly on the order each step should be made rather than on their nature.

DAVOUT · August 27, 2002, 13:43

Mistake

GePap · August 27, 2002, 15:08

I think that soon we will have to decide what long term goals we want to achieve. If we are to continue wave after wave of wars and war planning, then I say we might as well go for the whole thing and conquest, since as long as we continue sucha policy, many will ask that we retain a backwards form of government, which means that the A.I. will build a huge tech advantage. The age of buying our techs is wanning, so either we have to take our techs by war, or get them oursleves.

I prefer to get them oursleves, which means an end to all this warfare. The problem is that the bigger we get, the more the A.I., rightly, will try to prune us, just as we plan to prune others. The bigger we get, the less likely the AI will leave us alone, and the more costly the empire building will get. We have to try to strike a balance. This is not to say I I dont covet more lands. Primarily, I covet all of America, Greece's cities in the Great basin and their capitol, and all of Germany, while I see lands south towards Abananaba Minor and Persia not be worth the effort.

We also have to remember that there are 4 other civs missing. Unless we aim at conquest or dominion victories, these civs might also be future space competitiors. We can not forget that.

ThePlagueRat · September 17, 2002, 09:50

Hi, DAVOUT. (and everyboy else, of course) It's just me.
We Thinkers have always been here, and we will always be...
Why am I not on the staff list? - Of Course, you didn't know me.

It's been such a long time... Not many people know me.
Some few Thinkers do, perhaps.
I've not been visible lately, for I was conscending to an outer plane. I'm not shapeless anymore.
Allright, even when wearing my metallic purple robe, I'm not really that creepy.

Very well, I approve the renessaince of The Guild and your suggestions of new statutes.

It's good to see The Guild alive again!

- dr.PlagueRat, Founder of The Thinkes Guild,
(and "Rittmeister of Rituals)

DAVOUT · September 17, 2002, 12:41

The Ancestor returns ! Happy day !

You are right, I did not know that you initiate the Thinkers Guild, and I refered only to Chandragupta who started a thread on the idea.

You are most welcome, and in a few minutes you will be in the staff list, at the first place deserved by the founder.

I hope that you will not be desappointed that the Guild is so serious, but the Apolytonians have soon made an intensive use of their brain to overcome the difficulties resulting from their incredible starting position, and now they enjoy exchanging ideas and debating on subjects hard, abstract and philosophical.

This does not prevent the general mood to be oriented toward the fun, as you can see in going through the posts.

ThePlagueRat · September 18, 2002, 10:50

Oh thanks.

It's very very good to see that The Guild is into serious business nowadays.Our goal is to influence the society with the positive energies of our minds. And so to help the government out of wrong thinking. So these threads better keep running.

It's nice to feel that I can relax and attend our jolly meetings at the Drinking Philosopher Subguild, where we sing our songs and solves the problems of the world. Maybe we can have our "loudthinking citywalks" again.
Ahh, it's so good to be back in The Guild !
Now we have business to attend to...

Ritual Of The Free Thought:

*Laying an old wooden stick upon DAVOUT's head *

"By the Stick of The High Counsiousness...
I, The Ancestor of Thoughts, hereby grants DAVOUT the title of
Guildmaster of The Infinite Equation (*), and also proclaim him Defender of The Free Thought. This means DAVOUT will be Guildmaster hereafter with the duties such a position demands. May we all celebrate the continued arise of The Thinkers Guild. Blessed be the free thought! We may all meditate now... "

*eyes closing*
(aaooohm... aaooohm)

(*) "The Infinite Equation" is a 15ft. tall bottle of holy Notylopian thought-serum, stored in the caverns below the guild hall...

Drink a sip, if you dare...
Good day!

ThePlagueRat · September 22, 2002, 15:09

In these times of war and expansion, I encourage all fellow Thinkers to look for peaceful options that will still allow us to expand. Our culture rating might suffer, and there is uncertainty to whether we can fight our neigbours or not.

Those of you who can, should run for official positions.
- Reinstate right thinking among our federal administrators!

Ok,
See you around.

Zero · September 23, 2002, 00:58

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

The problem is that the bigger we get, the more the A.I., rightly, will try to prune us, just as we plan to prune others. The bigger we get, the less likely the AI will leave us alone, and the more costly the empire building will get. We have to try to strike a balance. This is not to say I I dont covet more lands. Primarily, I covet all of America, Greece's cities in the Great basin and their capitol, and all of Germany, while I see lands south towards Abananaba Minor and Persia not be worth the effort.

We also have to remember that there are 4 other civs missing. Unless we aim at conquest or dominion victories, these civs might also be future space competitiors. We can not forget that.

1.We should never stop acquiring more lands as long as it impedes the following:
Development of the empire already in possession
Conflict with the neighbors
other than that I see no reason why We stop the expansion. AI is gonna pick on us at one point anyway.. if that happens we could use the opportunity to gain strategic and rich resource teriotry and keep the warfare to minimum.

2. I think you're underestimating Rich Persian soil... they have a very large cities and we have spotted some nice fatten cattles and gold deposits in their land. Not to mention bonanza of sweet smelling incenses....

3. Point very well taken... We must keep in mind the civs in 'unfound' continent. And in order to keep ahead of them, we must limit ourselves the war we're in by finsihing the current war w/ persia as fast as possible and settling good terms with neighbors by trading and getting rich off them.

Epistax · September 23, 2002, 09:25

hmm this guild needs an arch rival. Anyone feel like starting the Impulse Guild?

The civs on the other continent are invariably less technological than us-- it's simple. We have x amount of civs on our continent, they have y on theirs, x is much larger than y, more chance for tech trades, less tech needs to be researched by each civ. The land would have to be ultrapremium on their continent to have a chance to be at equal tech.

Is there anyplace online where it is documented how the AI reacts to different kinds of player empires?
(I wish just for once they'd make a game where the AI can't tell the difference between the player and another AI)

ThePlagueRat · September 23, 2002, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Epistax
hmm this guild needs an arch rival. Anyone feel like starting the Impulse Guild?

Hmm...
You can join the Drunken Philosophers Subguild. Those are quite
impulsive... and it's fun!