How where and when to declare war

[red alert13]

Every civ3 player has gone through the crisis of war. Hopefully this will help newbies on the topic mentioned above.

Lets work on the first one: How.

First of all, Let me point out that Im new to Apolyton.net, so if any of this has been written before, i just haven't got around to reading it.

Before going to war, make sure that you MUST go to war. I mean for a good reason. Like taking an important resource/luxery/strategic choke point.

let's say that the americans have horses and iron. You have iron but no horses. Should you attack? Yes. No question about it . Yes. Horses will be your only ticket to fast non UUs through the first two ages. You have iron. all those useless warriors can be turned into valueable swordsmen. [even more valueable in the expansion pack.] if america is your neighbor,send about 4 swordsmen and 4 spearmen with them. Have the spearmen move in front front of the swordsmen like this:

Sw-1 move-sp

do this four abrest. move the spearmen around the city you want to conquer so they can cover the swords men who can attack the next turn.

Optional: land another group with only spear men on the other end of the empire a turn or 2 earlier as a decoy. The tips in the thread Surgical Wars can work in any era if used properly.

Also, decide what cities you want to gain and set yourself a time limit to perform.

When:
Some civs are better at warfare in different ages than others[i think each civ should have1UU per age]. this is my theory on this.

Aztechs: If your going to go to, do it right away.
Greek:Hopolites are a tough nut to crack, and make great Swordsmen escorts.
Egypt: I Dunno, maybe the middle ages. Their UU isn't to great.
French: You're goig to go to war as the French?!! maybe prehistoric, with a lotta luck
Germans: Those Panzers kick serious butt and are great with marines and infintry. Definetly industrial age
Zulu: Ancient No question.
Japanese: Those Samouri rock. Attack in the middle age before cavelry.
Chinese: I've heard the rider acclaimed, but I thik it should be used as a roads worst enemy in the middle ages
Persia: Immortels rule Hands down[thumbs up]. Don't even think about fighting them unless you have cavelry[just to be safe ] If you are persia cripple your foes in the prehistoric age.
Russia:Cavelry rule the late middle ages and cossacks provide the bost to a attack at that time.
America: F-16s are too little too late Try to avoid war with america
English:A UU boat ? get real! you better off throwing marshmellows at your enemies use knights/pikemen to destroy your foes.
Rome :Leigons are worth building from scratch. Nail your target once you get them
Iriquios: Mounted warriors are so-so hit em hard in the prehistoric age
Indians: What is the point of war elephant? Wait until cavelry
Babylon: I personally think you should avoid war with them

I know i'm missing one I just can't remember which one.

Where:

I touched on this earlier and now i'll dwell on it some more. namely Decoy attacks.

A decoy of four defenceive units[ie spearmen, pikemen, infintry,mech infintry] landed on the opposite end of the ai empire a turn or so before the main assult[ in a far away location] can be a very good well decoy. Once again I will reccomend Surgical Wars thread for more info.


Sorry about the typos and spell mistakes and remember try to stay out of war if possible.
Feel free to post or reply

[red alert13]

I'm looking here to telling what units should be used in different ages.

In the prehistoric age, try to establish an embassy with your opponent. This will enable you to look at the cities you want to conquer. Look at the units under garrison. Send over stronger units. Also, check what techs they have. Use this to your advantge. For example, Horsemen will hit your convoy of archers hard on the way to their cities. send spearmen over as an escort to counter the threat.
Personally, I'll always invest in horses and spearmen before i'll invest in warriors and Swordsmen. That gives you a constantly upgradeable army. I also try to avoid civs with UU somewhere along those upgrade lines[ie the russians]. Also personally i will wait ntil the middle ages to start a full scale world war.

That said, once in the middle ages go straight for chivelry. Then upgrade your horsemen into knights. Then go for military tradation. Your cavelry/musketman combo should be unstoppble if you went directly to military tradation. Try to take out 1 1/2 neighbor civs. Trade for the other important techs.

Industrial Age. Marines rule this age for assults. Load transports with marines and infintry, have the marines unload directly into enemy cities. Try to get peace as soon as possible. You must fight many battles to ensure a domination victory in this age. Don't trade off your techs. Any advantge you have must be used to its full extent. Try to make yourself alone on your continent. Launch amphibous landings on the other side of their empire and put a pinch manuaver on your foe. Get flight, attack another continent, and build airports in at least one of your captured cities. Airlift troops[edit:Tanks] in, and you could be sitting pretty

Wait for the Modern age. Go to space flight. Build ICBMs. They suck, but with them in your arsenal, you can get more if you sue for peace.

Well that about covers the ages. I'll add on later. Posts are 100% welcome.

[Theseus]

Ummm... Tanks?

[Lord Merciless]

Who the hell uses Marines? Tanks are just as expensive as them and far more powerful. Plus, you can upgrade Tanks for a few bucks to Modern Armor, the best unit in the entire game.

Your evaluation of Mounted Warrior is also wrong. I would go as far as to say that they are the best UU in the game. Playing as Iroquois, you could cleanse your continent much as faster than with Legionaries or Immortals. In addition, Mounted Warriors can be upgraded.

[red alert13]

Marines can be used to establish a huge beach head in one turn. I also forgot about tanks. I use marines to make a landing zone for tanks or I airlift tanks into the cities.

I compared the mounted warrior to the chinese rider. The warrior can be useful, but i wish it was a better UU.

But all of this is such a great thing about civ3. Different people use different strategies.

Keep the feed back coming.

[Lord Merciless]

Riders appeared way too late and are also expensive. I usually eliminate up to 2 Civs before getting to Feudalism. Mounted Warriors are essential to establish an insurmountable lead over other civs early in the game.

I agree with you on establishing the beachhead with Marines. However, I have rarely played on Archipelago maps and can usually find other ways to secure beachheads.

[red alert13]

In one of my games, I fought a foe who had the whole of a medium island. I captured all of their coastel cities with marines, reenforced them with infintry, Landed a transport of tanks into every city[5] and used the tanks to conquer the rest of their empire. Marines are useful in certian situations, and teamed with tanks can be lethal.
I then disbanded all of the marines.

[player1]

WAR CHARIOT IS GOOD UU.

Cheap, good as Horsmen, and with early age, you''ll build them every 3 turns.

Plus, as Industial you already have road network.

So you'll just,
SWARM your enemy with them.

Before they even get iron.

And if they get iron & horses, pillage it quickly.


P.S.
And avoid Greeks.

[Arrian]

When to declare war:

As Theseus has repeatedly said, any time you have relative strength. If you have a superior unit, superior numbers or both, start breaking things.

There doesn't need to be any compelling reason to fight (resources/luxuries), although that certainly will spur me on. War for war's sake works in CivIII. If you get the AI in to near-constant warfare, you will stunt their growth and make them easier to destroy. Add to that the awesome power of great leaders.

-Arrian

ps The Rider is a great pillage unit because of its 3 moves. But I'd rather just blitz straight through the enemy's empire in a couple of turns. Built enough Riders (or rather horsemen and upgrade them) and your wars will be short.

[dawidge]

Originally posted by Arrian
Built enough Riders (or rather horsemen and upgrade them) and your wars will be short.

and frequent

Kill early, kill often.

Declare war any time you think you can get something from your enemy. You don't necessarily need absolute superiority, just local superiority and the ability to defend yourself.

[Theseus]

Actually, there are two types of war in Civ3:

1. Direct engagement, which is mostly what's been discussed in this thread.

2. Machiavellian, which is a faux-war specifically for the purpose of getting AI civs to fight each other. This can suit a number of strategies, ranging from a re-direction of AI civ production capabilities, orchestrating the reduction / ruin of a killer AI civ, non-combative late-game luxury squatting, tricking AI troops into the wrong theatre, or just for fun.

This has been referred to a number of times... it's what got me into Vel's concept of the 'metagame.' I think the best example I've seen was Aeson's iceberg game - he couldn't have won without it. Makes gameplay into an art.

[Foolishman]

Originally posted by dawidge
Declare war any time you think you can get something from your enemy. You don't necessarily need absolute superiority, just local superiority and the ability to defend yourself.

Personaly, who needs defence?

If you can establish a MOBILE attacking force of OFFENSIVE units, the AI will be unable to make any counter attacks. Though I am somewhat new to this game, I have already found that making a bunch of defensive spearman is a waste when you can make horsemen and other offense units. As Sun Tzu said:
"Take what to thy enemy, and they can not take thy to you"

In General, making defence units is only useful in front line cities or newly conquered areas, instead, just focus all your attention on offence, cut off roads to your area, pillige tiles, and most of all, TAKE AWAY THEIR RESOURCES.

-Ronald

[Theseus]

Yeah, you nailed it, that's another bad leftover from Civ2... no need for units in inner-core cities, especially in Republic or Democracy.

Nice quote, btw.

[Foolishman]

Yea, I learned that when I was playing against the Americans on one of my Tournament Maps I made, they kept trying to send me attacks, but my knights would slaughter their swordsman before they even got within ten tiles of my nearest city, and, with a FUCNTIONAL and PRACTICAL road system, (gaurded by your own units of course) you can easly send offense units back in forth without the need of defence spearman.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Make sure you have enought units to take all of your objectives *on the first turn* If you don't have enough units, build more. If your objectives are too broad, then narrow them down. If by turn two, you still dont have the cities you wanted, then you've already lost. Use overwhelming force and CURSH the ai. Surprise, speed, and sforce (?) (the 3-s' ) are your tools to winning.

[Foolishman]

I have only found practical uses for my defence units in defending my road system, I use roads so much to send units to other civs in ancient times, that, they woudl often use that same advantage against me. FOr instance, I was playing the Romans, warlord, regular, 7 civs, and the romans sent a devastating amount of archers and legionary, ON MY OWN ROAD, to my undefended cities, I ened up losing because I had not defended my road system, a harsh lesson.

[Foolishman]

Lawrence, I had to learn that lesson the hard way, on one of my first agmes, I made a grueling long war with the Greeks, I sent a volly of kingts in, BUT, I spreaded them, and did not concentrate on any one objective, the Greek hoplite devisions were still able to defende against one or two knights (given they had defence bonuses and were fortified inside towns, cities). The moral of it was that I did not concentrate on one particular objective, I ened up losing the war and the game because their counter attack with swordsman was devesatting and I simply quited.

[Theseus]

Fm, you're ready to move up a notch...

Careful taking this theory to far though... on the higher difficulty levels, you will see significant stacks of AI attackers, and you'll need strong defending forces at times.

[Foolishman]

Yes, But, there is a key paradox in this, the more times they make an attack on you, the harder and faster you make it on them, I have learned the AI will communly strart "talkign with you if either you are RIGHT ABOUT to take their capital, or have waited 6-8 turns. At best, the AI will not make fast units (except for Zulu, aztec and other civs with fast basic units) and it will take them a while IF they are not close to you by using swordsman which thye almost certainly always use. I try and use this to an advantage, I tryed Monarch about an hour ago and quited because the AI expanded so fast, and I was playing a non-militaristic civ, which is obviously not the way to go. So, without roads, the AI will take so long to get to your civ, you will often ahve signed a peace treay and they will go home.

[Foolishman]

I have stumbled upon a most interestign fact, the AI will communly just "expand" and not defende itself as I said with the Aztec thought. BUT, when they are expand, they do it in the darndest way, they come closer to you, which is obviously stupid if they are trying to avoid my attacks. But, this leads me to a conclusion, they will try and sanction you from expanding, and they will really put vigor in it when you attack. This is exactly what people on here say to do, and it is a good way to win, simply saction them from expanding, but in a SMART way, not just rampant city making wherevr.
So, Their offensive is fuled by getting closer, or atleast that si what I think.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Foolishman
Yes, But, there is a key paradox in this, the more times they make an attack on you, the harder and faster you make it on them, I have learned the AI will communly strart "talkign with you if either you are RIGHT ABOUT to take their capital, or have waited 6-8 turns. At best, the AI will not make fast units (except for Zulu, aztec and other civs with fast basic units) and it will take them a while IF they are not close to you by using swordsman which thye almost certainly always use. I try and use this to an advantage, I tryed Monarch about an hour ago and quited because the AI expanded so fast, and I was playing a non-militaristic civ, which is obviously not the way to go. So, without roads, the AI will take so long to get to your civ, you will often ahve signed a peace treay and they will go home.

Or build plenty of cannons or artillery ( not really catapults) and put defender units on high ground, and deliver the good news to the enemy stacks. The wounded units will turn home, and those lonely walkers are easy meat to your mounted units.

[Foolishman]

ANother thign I noticed is that the AI after conquering one of your cities, will often want peace. I am not sure why but, they go for weak cities with no defence.(Which in my case is ussauly all because I rarely make defence units except for my road system). So, In theory, one could make a "buffer" city for the AI to conquer and raze, then it will sue for peace, and everyone will be happy, just aheive your objective fast.

[Foolishman]

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre


Or build plenty of cannons or artillery ( not really catapults) and put defender units on high ground, and deliver the good news to the enemy stacks. The wounded units will turn home, and those lonely walkers are easy meat to your mounted units.

Wow, that is pretty smart man, never considered it, you are right, the AI is too "smart" to attack with wounded units. Never even considered, I still aheva LONG way to go to become like you guys.

[Foolishman]

Sorry for all the mispelling guys, I should have tooken typing class,

[Theseus]

Well, bless my britches, you just came up with new one!!

If it's true, it's almost an exploit...

Regarding fast units, are you on 1.29f? If not, get it ASAP... Soren tweaked some of the settings, so the AI civs use a lot more fastmovers now.

[Foolishman]

Yes, I am on 1.29, I got it when you gave me the directory, or I think it was you.

[Foolishman]

Yea, one more curious fact I learned, when fighting with the UU unit, it can give you an extreme advantage to fight their UU with a warrior and lose. I think you said that Theasus, the Greek Hoplite for example, trigguring their GA instantly gets rid of their extra production and they are still expanding, so, they get no growth advantage, never thought of that oen either.

SO much knowledge from you people, unbelievable.

[Theseus]

Misspelling is fine, up until THEASUS!!

Have you not seen decent stacks of Knights, for instance?

Wait until Japan shows up in force... all of a sudden, the game gets INTENSE.

[Foolishman]

Yea, I have been scared to make Japan a foe, because I looked at what you people had to say about them, I am scared their Samuri will overcome my knights as well.

Sorry for the mispelling ***Theseus***

[Foolishman]

Most of the theories I consider spawn from you experts out there generous enough to even grace my threads.