Very Huge Maps

[Gwylim]

What about playing very huge maps?
Is it easier or more difficult?
On what to pay attention?
This are questions i think we can argue a little...I-ve read some other postings about strategy and the quality of the special traits and would like to know some opinions.

[Ethelred]

Is it easier or more difficult?

Depends on your tolerance for tedium.

On what to pay attention

Patience and paying attention.

It makes some traits more powerfull. Military for instance as more battles lead to more leaders which means more Wonders can be rushed.

[Qilue]

Generally, your territory usually covers an area larger than standard sized maps and you usually have LOTS (60+) of cities. In effect, you have to be a master of logistics and planning unless you intend to play SimCiv3. You will need to coordinate the movement of 100's of units every turn in early game.

In late game, the numbers grow to the 1000's and all the time, you have to be aware of exactly what each and every unit is supposed to be doing. The recent patches with stack movement and wake/fortify all commands help, unlike the original release where these nifty commands didn't exist and units had to be moved individually.

While you can automate your workers, this generally yields substandard results as evidenced by AI cities. However, on huge maps, you will need many many workers to complete the improvements before modern era. Around 2 workers per city (3 per city is better, 4 per city for non-industrious) is needed, otherwise your cities will be generally useless for most of the game.

Huge maps also amplify the differences between industrious and non-industrious civs as well as between native and captured workers due to how much land has to be improved.

EDIT -

It also helps if you have an idea of how big you want all cities to be. While you can specialize with cities with small maps, on huge maps, it's less intensive to just build everything, everywhere. Also, the placement of the FP is extremely vital.

Of special note is air and naval tactics. Get used to building carrier groups because enemy territory is far beyond the operational range of even stealth bombers based cities.

An invasion involves sending enough units to secure a beachhead and survive the counter-attack because reinforcements wont arrive anytime soon.

[Knightblade pDM]

I took out the "Huge" map and renamed it "Ultra" making the dimensions 256x256 and so far I've played one game and made 4 maps. The game included 8 civs and by the time I met an opposing civ was late Ancient Times, and the three World Wars lasted centuries, and I was part of two of them. It requires a lot of patience, but if you work the tedium well, you're in for some classic games

[Bautou]

You'll also need a pretty good computer to keep up with all the units and moves, for me, with a 1.6ghz, AI turns often take 10-15 minutes by the industrial age.

[Robert Plomp]

I usually play huge, 16 players, emperor.

1. have a book to read in between the turns
2. automate your settlers
3. expand
4. diplomacy is VERY important. The tech-trade system is vital to keep up, since the AI's will trade their techs. If you won't, you'll be a barbaric civ with no knowledge.
5. Keep peace with your neighbours, and one by one destroy them, untill you took over your continent.
6. because of the 16, oftenly 10-14 of them are large, civs, it's a cool diplomatic game. Wars will become worldwars because of all of the aliances.
7. Never get into a war if you're not got the intention to. YOU declare war, if you feel like your enemies will if you disagree with them, agree with them, since they'll have 8 other civs who'll agree with them, and declare war on you as well!

Have patience.
much patience.

it's cool!

[star mouse]

Don't even think about playing a giant map unless you have a fast PC.

[Robert Plomp]

Don't even think about playing a giant map unless you have a fast PC.

or a good book

[Menkerios]

I keep hearing people talk about mega-, ultra-, and giga- maps. Theres bigger than huge? How do I use it?
Thanks

[FrustratedPoet]

you just need to create a map yourself in the editor, I think .... the 'Huge' map size isn't the biggest it is possible to build.

You would need a fast PC to run it at a speed that wasn't extremely boring (unless you have a good book to read ). I don't like playing on anything bigger than Standard because I prefer to play lots of shorter games rather than a few long ones. Your mileage may vary...

[Gwylim]

Much good advice, thanks, but i have to tell that looks like if i even didnt played the very huge maps until now - i thought this is the last option when you create the world, but i still think this IS a very huge map
i also like to play with all 16 Civs and i agree that the tech-selling strategy is essential, but i dont think that being industrious is SO important. I play russia and in the first age i was getting nearly all techs from my friends in the barbarian huts and after the early game you have enough workers to improve as fast as needed.
But it is frustrating, that the trait "expansonistic" is useless after the first age

you have to be a master of logistics and planning unless you intend to play SimCiv3
.......SimCiv3 is really boring.........

While you can automate your workers, this generally yields substandard results as evidenced by AI cities

this is very, very true.....

Question to all:
What is more effective?
A city lets say surrounded by grassland:
>ALL tiles around improved with mines, or
>1/3 to 1/5 of all tiles improved with irrigation

I dont see sense in a city growing bigger then 23 or 25...perhaps someone can explain it to me?

Wars will become worldwars because of all of the aliances

i also think that this is very challenging, especially to try to form strong aliances when you are at war with more than one other civ, ...but only if you are really in a strong position.

Wasnt the people arguing much about how "intelligent" the AI is? I think she is not to bad, but still very stupid, or how do you call it when a neighbor of you with whom you had war and who lost all but one city to you, is declaring again war at you...without that you provoke or wanted this???
Of course everyone here can imagine how (and how fast) this war ended

...ah, and a good book is really very important
...but the most important and boring is the SAVE and the LOAD buttom...

[Hagbart]

Don't play huge maps unless you have a pentium4 2 ghz!

[Ethelred]

I dont see sense in a city growing bigger then 23 or 25...perhaps someone can explain it to me?

I try to max out at 20. That results in every tile being worked and nothing going to feed specialists. I only go over 20 in cities that allready have everything mined that can be mined but have a large number of flood plain or food bonus squares.

However there is a good reason for larger city populations.

Milking the score. Just look at Aeson's high score games. Lots of happy people and specialists.

Very high scores and high levels of tedium go together.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Gwylim
What about playing very huge maps?
Is it easier or more difficult?

I like huge map with a lot of civs because It give me better deal in trade.

On what to pay attention?

Don't sign any Protection Pact with anyone or you may end up at war with all other players.

[Robert Plomp]

I dont see sense in a city growing bigger then 23 or 25...perhaps someone can explain it to me?

you get:
1. taxman / scientists
2. more points
3. entertainers to keep the city happier!
4. you can show of against your enemies

[alva]

Originally posted by Hagbart
Don't play huge maps unless you have a pentium4 2 ghz!

It's not the processor that's playing the most important role here.It's your 'memory' that is crucial here .
To play huge maps, make sure you have at least 256m or it really won't be fun

[Menkerios]

Still don't know how to do giga sized maps in the editor--
I click on generate map, and it gives me no other choice beyond huge, and no apparent way to specify a larger dimensions myself.
What is yer secret?

Posted by Gwylim:
.....when a neighbor of you with whom you had war and who lost all but one city to you, is declaring again war at you...without that you provoke or wanted this???

This happens when your peace demands cannot be met by conquered civ after a few turns.. only way to break treaties is to declare war. This is what they do when they can't front the goods you demanded.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Bautou
You'll also need a pretty good computer to keep up with all the units and moves, for me, with a 1.6ghz, AI turns often take 10-15 minutes by the industrial age.

Jesus.

That makes big maps PROHIBITVELY SLOW. Nope, not for me.

Remember, the game has been considered slow even with average size maps on PC's with a CPU at 1 gig last December. That is TOO SLOW. There was clearly something down wrong by Firaxis in design.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by CyberShy

Quote:

I dont see sense in a city growing bigger then 23 or 25...perhaps someone can explain it to me?

you get:
1. taxman / scientists
2. more points
3. entertainers to keep the city happier!
4. you can show of against your enemies

1. That net you a whooping 1gp/1 beaker per taxman/scientist.

Not worth the pollution problems.

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Coracle


the game has been considered slow even with average size maps on PC's with a CPU at 1 gig last December. .

By whom? You?

It all depends on your computer and how well it's maintained.

It just makes sense that the game will be slower on larger maps. There are many more decisions for each unit to make on where to go because there are more squares on the map.

[HAND]

In one review of Civ3 I read, the reviewer recommended 1Gb of Ram! That was last December though, when Ram prices were alot lower..But if you want run huge maps at speed i think Ram is the way to go, coupled with a fast cpu(1Ghz+)

[Catt]

The game slows down considerably for me on huge maps, less so on large maps. "Considerably" means 2 - 3 minutes per turm in the late industral / eaely modern age. But I play almost exclusively on an older laptop - P2 300 or 350 mz, 128 mg Ram, small hard drive (maybe 20 Gig). Tons of units late in the game, all at war, equals "break out the novel" time for me; otherwise, thre game runs fine.

Catt

[Robert Plomp]

Originally posted by Coracle


Jesus.

That makes big maps PROHIBITVELY SLOW. Nope, not for me.

Remember, the game has been considered slow even with average size maps on PC's with a CPU at 1 gig last December. That is TOO SLOW. There was clearly something down wrong by Firaxis in design.

1. can you stop swearing?
2. this is not the 'complain' topic. We know you don't like the game. Don't threadjack this (again)

1. That net you a whooping 1gp/1 beaker per taxman/scientist.

that's not true, it depends on some things, I think big cities should collect 5-10 gp/turn. In years it's not much indeed, but in the late game...... it works!

[Ethelred]

quote:

1. That net you a whooping 1gp/1 beaker per taxman/scientist.



that's not true, it depends on some things,

It is true. That it doesn't depend on anything is one of the more reasonable complaints some have. The production from specialists really should get the multipliers from improvements and they don't.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Coracle
Remember, the game has been considered slow even with average size maps on PC's with a CPU at 1 gig last December. That is TOO SLOW.

I play Civ3 on my notebook PIII 1 Gig without any problem. I have to turn off certain animation to speed up the game; that's all.

PS: Oh btw, I usually play on the huge map with 16 civs.

[kimmygibler]

I can't stand even standard size maps due to the tedium. My comp can handle them pretty easily but I hate all the clicking...

[Grumbold]

I upgraded to a P4 2.1 Ghz and actually lost performance because I dropped from 512 to 256 Mb Ram for a while.

[Flight]

i have a 1.4 athlon and playing on marla's map with 8 civs only took about 5 mins each turn, maybe less, maybe a lot more - but it didn't seem very long (this was in the modern age when 8 was reduced to 3, spanning most of america africa and eurasia)

[Deathwalker]

I've got a 1.9GHz P4 and even I get slow down some times. It reminds me of Birth Of The Federation

[fittstim]

I thought this was a thread about huge maps?

Anyway, I haven't seen any comment on the biggest limitation of HUGE maps. That is, the hard wired maximum of 512 allowable cities on a map.

Playing on a huge map (or bigger 256X256) with 16 civs, you'll be lucky if you can expand to 40 cities before the annoying *you can't build any more cities" window pops up. On average, you should be able to build only 32 cities.

This just happened to me in while still in the ancient era and over 3/4 of the map unpopulated. Arrgghhh!!!!

This, in my opinion, is the biggest drawback to playing on HUGE maps. But the exploring is fun...