August 12, 2002, 01:01
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#1
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War Academy: SMC Generalized Plan: The Persians
Persia may not be number one, but they're another civ we should be wary of.
As you can tell, they have no problem waltzing all over our territory, they have no reguard for our borders.
The Persians have very little culture of their own, and with any luck Tyre and Sidon will flip to us in the near future.
The persians do not have iron right now but they will realitevly soon. Their immortals are 4-2-1. A unit even a pikeman cant defend against with certainty.
One good thing about Persia is that most of the cities we would want are located on the southern pennisula (Presopolis, Bactra, Susa, Tarsus, Gordium). This could be a simple "divide and conquer" maneuver.
In fact, if we get ahead after destorying America and France, we may be able to crush ther Persians without even suing for peace.
Once the penninsula is taken, they're basically nothing.
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August 12, 2002, 01:02
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#2
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i hit enter and the damn thing posted. oh well.
heres the map.
discuss.
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August 12, 2002, 07:18
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#3
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I have to admit I can't stop drooling over that Peninsula, but we might want to wait until we have cavalry so we can roam into deep Persian territory as quick as possible without fearing that our force would be counter-attacked during its voyage.
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August 12, 2002, 08:01
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#4
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King
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If we wanted to be sneaky we could build a city next to thier iron as it is outside thier cultural borders. Without thier immortals they would only ever be a second rate nation.
But if we wanted to be really really sneaky we could build a city next to their iron and then give the city to the english so that the Persians couldn't culture flip the city and would be facing a tough war if they tried to take it by force.
If we could deny the Persians iron it would mean no immortals, knights or pikeman. Or inother words a complete walk over.
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August 12, 2002, 08:13
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#5
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Guest
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Getting that iron would require a settler/spearmen group be sent out NOW, as Antioch could expand any time now. Immortals have a defense of 2, so they're not really anything to worry about unless they start attacking too much. If we can cripple their military production soon enough (that is, make Antioch a primary target should they get the iron there), they won't be able to produce more Immortals and really won't have any advantage. The key is to overwhelm them right at the beginning so they won't have the ability to launch an effective counterattack. AFAIK, that one iron deposit is all they have, correct (I'm too tired to load up the .SAV right now and check)? Basically, if we ever hope to do anything to the Persians in the future, we need to get that iron now. No iron means no Middle Age military, at all. We could do this with Knights.
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August 12, 2002, 08:14
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#6
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I like your way of thinking! However I'm pretty certain the English are going to settle that spot before we do.
Nevertheless we should try settling it so we can give it to the English. Doing so would create us a much needed ally in the future.
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August 12, 2002, 09:14
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#7
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King
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I like OPD's idea. Don't we already have a settler in the field with a spearman.
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August 12, 2002, 09:57
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#8
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I like the OPD idea, but I never give any city to another civ... and I think we can't waste any settler by now.
By the other hand, could be funny to be sooo evil...
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August 12, 2002, 12:02
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#9
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Edrix
Getting that iron would require a settler/spearmen group be sent out NOW, as Antioch could expand any time now.
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yeah you're right i thought we had a spare settler but we built the city of memphis last time.
It'll probably have expanded by the time we build a settler and get over there.
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August 12, 2002, 12:06
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#10
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King
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at the very least, station fast moving troops near the Persian iron deposit, close enough that if war breaks out, we can cut the supply immediately, use the fast movers to pillage the rest of the roads around that city, so that it will be a dozen turns before they can reconnect, even if they kill our fastmovers.
or if we have pikes by then, pillage and sit on the source and hope their existing armies are not powerful enough to dislodge us quickly.
we use the time bought to rally our troops, hurrying whatever we must, and either reinforce the troops blocking their iron access, or to start taking cities, further cutting their production and cultural border. As long as they're without iron, we can win a war of attrition (even if they outproduce us, they'll only have archers!). Of course, we'd love to hit hard and fast enough that they'll beg for peace, but if they get aggressive soon, I don't think we'll have time to build an army big enough to meet the ideal.
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August 12, 2002, 13:36
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#11
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King
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I like the english idea -- give them the city, and in return, get them to declare war on the Aztecs with us (we're too far away from the Aztecs to actually have to fight). Cripple England, Persia, and the Aztecs all in one -- I think it's worth a settler.
On the other hand, we could just build and give England the city and get something else we want in return, such as whatever tech they have.
Just a thought.
-- adaMada
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August 12, 2002, 20:56
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#12
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Quote:
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Originally posted by adaMada
I like the english idea -- give them the city, and in return, get them to declare war on the Aztecs with us (we're too far away from the Aztecs to actually have to fight). Cripple England, Persia, and the Aztecs all in one -- I think it's worth a settler.
On the other hand, we could just build and give England the city and get something else we want in return, such as whatever tech they have.
Just a thought.
-- adaMada
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I don't think the comp has been willing to give you anything for cities (and vice versa) since several patches ago. It only accepts them as gifts, and will only give them away for a peace treaty.
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August 12, 2002, 22:50
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#13
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I think Persia would be better suited to be an ally/ subject nation than areas to take over. We can use them long term against the english, who are #2 in the world, and the Germans, who's territory is much closer and thus much more useful to our empire. We have to stop worrying solely about our neighbors and start looking at the overall situation, and the Greeks, English and Romans are shaping up to be our biggest long term competitors- to say nothing of the Chinese and Japanese- we have no clue how big they are , almost half the map is unknown, and we don't know what the four missing civs might be up to.
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August 13, 2002, 02:54
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#14
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-- OT --
That reminds me - if we could be the first civ to make contact with those civs, we'd be RICH!!
The civs living in the other continent(s) are probably technologically backward in comparison to us because all of the Abananaba civs have been trading techs AFAIK. Why, we could sell them tons of technologies for gold and gpt! We could also sell communications but I'd rather be the only civ with communications with civs from overseas.
We should therefore make it a high priority to research means of safely traversing ocean tiles.
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August 16, 2002, 16:08
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#15
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King
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Shiber,
Another good idea  . Again, might I suggest giving it it's own thread, so it can recieve the proper attention?
-- adaMada
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August 16, 2002, 16:42
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#16
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King
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Well, fine sirs, I myself must admit that the Persian threat is, in it's own way, quite staggering. Xerxes of Persia is known to be a hard man, and I believe his moral character to be quite low. He is not trustworthy in my opinion, so do not let the overly pleasant smile on his face full you. Something must be done in order to eliminate any chance of betrayal on the part of the Persian empire. Now, I am not a warmonger, so I see war as a last resort in this case. Yet, if he is allowed to build his fearsome Immortals in mass, we shall not be able to stand against him. Something must be done, and it must be done now. We must try and seek a way to deny him of his iron access, and so make sure that he can have no chance of arming his legions of Immortals. If he is able to have these Immortals in his army, Apolytonia will be on the way out. However, as I said before, war should be viewed only as a last resort, though I cannot stress to you how high the threat of Persia is.
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August 16, 2002, 17:01
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#17
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WE should keep a couple units roaming the border watching for immortals, especially buildups of immortals
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August 16, 2002, 18:02
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#18
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Quoting from another thread:
Here's what I think we should do (this is based on an idea I heard about a week ago, I don't remember who suggested it though):
Send a settler ASAP (if we don't have any spearmen available to send with him then send him unprotected, as this has to be done ASAP) and make him settle on the tile that contains the iron Persia is about to acquire (or if they will expand into that tile by the time we get there, the tile next to it).
Once we settle, give the town to the English. It won't be of any value to us since it's far away from our palace and is stuck between Persian and English territory but giving it to the English would mean preventing Persia from acquiring iron in the near and maybe far future. Heck, Persia and the English might even go to war over it.
Other than that, giving the town to England will improve our relations with this civ and we might be able to get some gold in return, but the main objectives of this move will be the ones mentioned above.
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August 17, 2002, 11:25
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#19
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King
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Shiber is exactly right. This is what we should do, and once again, I support and endorse this plan. I know I don't hold much influence, but if someone like Uberkrux or Sir Ralph or Captain would care to endorse the plan, I think it'd serve as a great service to our civilization.
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August 17, 2002, 11:28
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#20
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hi ,
we should prepare to get them , while they are at war with an other nation , ....
and cav might not be bad , ....
30 vet units could do the trick
have a nice day
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August 17, 2002, 11:32
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#21
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on Shiber's plan:
in my expierences civs never pay gold or techs for a city (they're too stupid to comprehend the value of a city. go soren)
sure, we could just "give" the English Iron, but why? They're bound to be enemies at soem point, why would we give them swordsmen / pikemen / kinghts / railroads?
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August 17, 2002, 12:10
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#22
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Brits already have Iron connected (next to Canterbury to be precise).
Giving them Iron won't change anything stratgically, except hindering Persia to go past spearman until at least gunpowder (and Persia's chance to get saltpeter is little, with their grassland / jungle territory).
It seems giving Iron to England will be a loss of a settler : we don't want England to be overpowered. If Persia only has spearmen when cavalry is around, then it will be a breeze for Liz to conquer it.
Plus, we have no guarantee at all Antioch won't expand until we arrive, or that the Brits won't settle there beforehand.
Antioch would cost 19 gold to investigate (our income of 1 turn). I think it'll be appropriate to see if Persians are building culture there, before sending a settler in such a hazardous mission.
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August 17, 2002, 13:51
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#23
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by UberKruX
on Shiber's plan:
in my expierences civs never pay gold or techs for a city (they're too stupid to comprehend the value of a city. go soren)
sure, we could just "give" the English Iron, but why? They're bound to be enemies at soem point, why would we give them swordsmen / pikemen / kinghts / railroads?
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The A.I will never, ever, ever accept one of your cities. No matter what the city has in it, or anythig else you may put in the deal. Its because of too many possible exploits.
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August 17, 2002, 14:11
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#24
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Deity
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That is the new patch, v1.29, where AI never accepts cities except freely. We are still in v1.21.
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August 17, 2002, 14:15
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#25
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Quote:
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Originally posted by trickey
The A.I will never, ever, ever accept one of your cities. No matter what the city has in it, or anythig else you may put in the deal. Its because of too many possible exploits.
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The AI always accepts gifts, including cities. You can give cities to the AI, but you can never trade for them, except in peace negociations.
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August 18, 2002, 11:53
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#26
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hi ,
we could give the english species some iron , why not , before we go to war , we dont give it to them , ....and they cant build large numbers in 20 turns , and we can use the money , .....
have a nice day
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August 18, 2002, 12:11
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#27
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Panag, we'll need a road or a sea route to England first.
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August 18, 2002, 12:39
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#28
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
That is the new patch, v1.29, where AI never accepts cities except freely. We are still in v1.21.
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hi ,
the AI accepts them in 1.29
its a great way to please them , and to start wars
have a nice day
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