question about island starts

zipnar · August 15, 2002, 01:48

if you find yourself alone on an island, what's the best thing to do? (besides restart)

rush for mapmaking? or what?

Coracle · August 15, 2002, 04:57

Besides restarting, yea, get off the island ASAP and make contact with other civs. If the island is small and lacking in resources you really are screwed.

No, you do not HAVE to build defensive military as much as if on a big continent surrounded by potential enemies, but there are other, perhaps bigger, disadvantages.

I tried building the Great Library ASAP, but it takes longer to get to Literature so someone else invariably builds it first.

The only strategy that worked for me in the past was to do nothing but build galleys and military and suddenly invade my nearest neighbor.

So my answer to you is INVADE. You have no other chance to catch up, not peacefully. IMHO.

zulu9812 · August 15, 2002, 06:24

wow - Coracle didn't take the chance to say he hates culture flipping...

anyway - lone, small islands tend be close to other land masses. If you're lucky, there won't even br any ocean between those lands and your island and you can start settling once you get caravels. If you're really lucky, it'll only be coastal tiles so you can do it with galleys.

statusperfect · August 15, 2002, 06:50

Waiting for caravels/magnetism is for sissies. Get your galleys full of settler out into the unknown ocean. Most of them will die but you HAVE to start settling other islands to catch up.

zulu9812 · August 15, 2002, 06:53

if you send galleys into ocean squares without having the Great Lighthouse, they'll ALL dies never mind most of them...

Catt · August 15, 2002, 13:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Coracle
I tried building the Great Library ASAP, but it takes longer to get to Literature so someone else invariably builds it first.

I haven't completed a ton of games under 1.29f, but it seems to me from my limited sample that the Great Library is now more reachable than it was before. Playing on Monarch or Emperor under 1.21f, beelining for the GL was a risky strategy for me - I would sometimes lose it to another civ and then be in a real fix; under 1.29f, I have built it several times with a seemingly wide cushion zone of success, and witrhout having to take drastic measures like setting my second city on a palace build right away (and therefore stunting early growth considerably). In the latest AU game (AU 103 - Monarch level) which was played on an archipelago map, I actually used my capital to build the Great Lighthouse first, then successfully built the Great Library there as well (a double GL city

)!

You might try it a few times under 1.29f and see if it has changed for you.

Quote:

Originally posted by zulu9812
if you send galleys into ocean squares without having the Great Lighthouse, they'll ALL dies never mind most of them..

I thought it was only a 50% chance each turn ending in sea or ocean. Is the 50% chance to survive limited to only sea squares (and ocean squares are sure death?)

Catt

Cort Haus · August 16, 2002, 05:04

I'd love to try an isolationlist start on a continent map, but have never so far got one. Too many pangea & island games I suppose.

If an island's large enough for a decent-size civ, it should be possible to build your way to mid/late-game power, despite the early tech gap, by enjoying a peace dividend. You can eventually catch up in tech and then stretch a lead whilst the others are bashing each other.

In my current game the AI Joan has a large continent to herself, and after being several techs behind when she met the rest, she got several ahead by late industrial, and should win.

I got a desert/mountain start on the tip of a tiny island a few squares from the Zulus. Nearby on the large continent were a large Japan and Germany. I played on just to see how much I'd lose by, with a faint chance of sneaking a diplo-win, but Joan's too far ahead. Shame they don't trade cities anymore - I would have traded my empire for Fission!

Generally with island starts I'd say the Lighthouse is a key wonder. Zip around discovering civs, monopolising contact where possible, colonising islands for resources (esp future resources), and even selling maps for a regular revenue-stream. Once I'd nicked it off the Zulus I was able to catch up in tech because of it.

{edit: maybe I'll bump my lighthouse strat for Zipnar}

NeoStar · August 16, 2002, 07:28

I find island empires to rarely work other than on small maps

Water tiles and their resources are horrible, and those essential oil rigs are far, far away...

Cort Haus · August 16, 2002, 08:25

Quote:

Originally posted by NeoStar
I find island empires to rarely work other than on small maps

Water tiles and their resources are horrible, and those essential oil rigs are far, far away...

Slow to build, but they can turn out to be decent commerce cities. Get a harbour in there and reap all the gold.

zipnar · August 16, 2002, 12:26

thanks for the responses, never thought about exploring out with galleys and then making it back in the same turn. that helps a lot.

Coracle · August 16, 2002, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by zulu9812
wow - Coracle didn't take the chance to say he hates culture flipping...

No, but you wasted our time gratuitously threadjacking by attacking me.

And I do not need to comment further on Flipping as I HAVE WON - it can be turned off in PTW.

Kill Flipping!

Coracle · August 16, 2002, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt

I haven't completed a ton of games under 1.29f, but it seems to me from my limited sample that the Great Library is now more reachable than it was before, , ,

Probably. But it still seems that an isolated civ will have to develop all his early techs alone, and even after contact he might be behind and have nothing good with which to trade. So he will reach Literature a little to late to try the GL.

As for the Lighthouse. It doesn't seem like much, but it CAN make a difference in getting those galleys safely to places you otherwise wouldn't go.

I'd try for the Lighthouse over the GL in average instances.

Catt · August 17, 2002, 13:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Coracle

Probably. But it still seems that an isolated civ will have to develop all his early techs alone, and even after contact he might be behind and have nothing good with which to trade. So he will reach Literature a little to late to try the GL.

As for the Lighthouse. It doesn't seem like much, but it CAN make a difference in getting those galleys safely to places you otherwise wouldn't go.

I'd try for the Lighthouse over the GL in average instances.

Give it a try with the Great Library - I've done it a couple of times without trading for pre-requisite techs for Literature (in other words, while I might have traded techs, I researched Literature and its pre-requisites on my own).

On an island start, I defintiely agree that the Great Lighthouse can be a pretty big advantage, and I would likely shoot for that over the other GL in almost every circumstance (though I might try for both!)

Catt

Panag · August 18, 2002, 13:31

hi ,

it can be intresting to start on an island , for one you dont get problems with neigbors so fast , ...

have a nice day