Director of Base Production Campaign Thread

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well, I guess it's time for us to say why we'd be great Directors...

Candidates:

MrWhereItsAt (Ind)
Lucky22 (CCCP)
Juliennew (P4)

Ask questions of us, we will use this thread to answer, post policy, our thoughts and generally convince you to vote for us.

Lucky22 - let us begin!

EDIT: Oops! Just found out that Juliennew is running too - you're not on the first page of the Nomination thread....

[MrWhereItsAt]

A little about me as a starter...

I have played Civ since 1991 (the very beginning!), Civ2 since '96, SMAC since, oh '98 (?), a little CTP, SMACX and Civ3. Although I have not had nearly as much SMACX experience as Civ2 experience, when both SMAC and CTP came out simultaneously here, I quickly dropped CTP and concentrated on SMAC for over 3 years (allowing for the odd University course ).

I have been VP, SMC and finally Prez of the Civ2 Demo game here - when I was Prez we won the game via domination in c. 1760. As VP (since I had nothing to do), I set up a group to revise the Constitution and resolve any issues that we had with it. Although this Committee didn't survive me leaving to be SMC, this gave me some experience in working with many posters at once. I am now SMC again for the second Civ2 game. I am an outspoken (some might say painfully so ) member of the Civ3 game and known there. I am currently running for President there, and within two days I should win this (unopposed).

Above all, I think that the role of the Minister of Base Production will be mainly to arrange a compromise between the conflicting demands of multiple Ministers, and submit the resultant queues for public approval. Whilst outspoken on my own thoughts, I think I have shown I can go along with the wishes of the people above my own decisions. There could not be a better position I could have wanted - I prefer to deal with all the Ministers than have to analyse one aspect (eg Military, Foreign Affairs etc) in detail.

Best of all I have SMAC and SMACX, and I spend far too much time on 'Poly, so you bet I'll be answering your posts ASAP.

Oh, and no party - I like to rest on my own successes and ideals, and I am proud to believe that this will mean all parties can and will enjoy dealing with me.

And never believe anything Tass says about me - we have a vendetta running with us from Earth.


HE is the propaganda-spreading spy.

[DeathByTheSword]

ok to which kind of director (explor,military,terraforming) will you two give in general ,early game, the most support and why?

and do you have fixed (again general) build queures for new bases?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Dependent on how much Minister clash there will be, but I imagine the emphasis will be on early exploration of as much as possible, accompanied by fast base placement, probably with accompanying defense wherever mindworms roam. Nothing fixed - I don't think setting queues is in the job description without Ministerial demands heard first. Then of course any queue I'd suggest would need to pass the citizen's test.

[The Bloody Baro]

Okay question for both canidates. Which SP is the more critical in the early game:

A. Human Genome Project

B. Weather Paragardim

C. Command Nexus

D. Merchant Exchange

E. Virtual World

F. Citizens Defense Force


In the game we intend to play which of these early game SPs would help our faction the most and why?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well, not my own decision, but the Weather Paradigm has served me well, and since everyone wants at least a few formers per base, this would boost us tremendously throughout the game. Virtual World is great too, but not available quite as early. I rarely ever even consider the Merchant Exchange or Human Genome Project (can't even remember what the second one does... ), and where possible I like Citizens' Defense and Command Nexus, but later than the Paradigm.

[DeathByTheSword]

HGP is +1 talent per base

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
And never believe anything Tass says about me - we have a vendetta running with us from Earth.


HE is the propaganda-spreading spy.

*Sigh* Losing a possible voter....And *sigh* yes, i am considering voting for you.

Anyway, whats your view on Empath Guild?

[MrWhereItsAt]

If we are going for Diplomatic victory, essential. If not, a useful one to deny the AI, but not essential if we are planning on conquering the planet elseways.

I would aim to get it, but not be too upset if we didn't and were aiming to convince everyone else of our better way via less..... diplomatic means.

[Haon]

For Both Candidates.

A)How do you view your opponents party?

B)How often would you "rush construction"

C)Although this is out of your controll to change, what is you ropinion of the elected Commisar and his party?

[MrWhereItsAt]

The parties in this game I know next to nothing about, except that there are many. I am not a member of any party, and have not visited any party's thread. Offhand, I cannot even remember Lucky22's party, nor Crisler's.

It would be highly unfair to classify someone by their party, for, as far as I an concerned, you either make an impression as an individual or not at all. I haven't even seen Lucky22 post beyond putting himself in the running yet, and I hope he comes to this thread sooner rather than later so we can get some decent campaigning going!

Rushing construction would be done where there was some plan that required something to be built ASAP, in order to not miss an opportunity. Energy should not be stockpiled needlessly, especially in the early game - it should be used to give us the advantage via rushing/upgrading.

Crisler has shown to be adept at kicking off many debates and posting responsibly in a leadership role, taking all points of view into account. Once we start the game I am sure Crisler will prove to be efficient at this also, because it seems those who are this willing and enthusiastic about the game tend to be good at all aspects of the Demo game.

Crisler's party? - as before, I can't even remember what it is. I am willing to work with anyone as an individual, and if parties manifest themselves to me as a role-playing device, I can play along. I just prefer to be the lone one without a party for myself. I think I am trying to make a point, and I'll let you know when I figure out what that point is.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Updated at the top - Juliennew is running also as a member of the P4 party.

Lucky22 and Juliennew - I don't know where you guys are, but this thread is where you try to convince everyone you are the best choice for this Directorship - in the immortal and infamous words of adamsj/James Adams - let's get going!

[lucky22]

I've been completely unaware of this thread... I saw the "debate" threads for the other ministerial positions, but not this one- whoops. Of course, it's only been up since Thursday, and I gather that there is no-one to contact interested parties by pm or whatever. If Juliennew is a canditate, this should indeed be started over.

Obviously, the director of base production will need to develop compromises between interested parties as items are put in to queue.
Priorities- a) effective self-defense

b) development of infrastructure

I feel the Weather Paradigm is the most critical early SP.

Thre will be much conflict around our production decisions as we progress. I reiterate that I run for MBP on a platform of meaningful consensus.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Haon
For Both Candidates.

A)How do you view your opponents party?

MWIA is an independent (I'm pretty sure): I respect independents and consider them perhaps the primary audience for crucial policy debates.

B)How often would you "rush construction"

Only under conditions of dire emergency or if the resulting base improvement could pay for itself in energy income sooner than the current build-time. Not often.

C)Although this is out of your controll to change, what is you ropinion of the elected Commisar and his party?

Crisler is a fundamentalist- as I have noted in other political debate threads the primary relevant difference between an intellectually resposible fundamentalist and a humanist marxist is a fundamentalist support for wage-slavery (ie- the FM econ choice). While I am actually a structuralist marxist with a decent grip on the mechanics of base production, the nature of politics forces my platform into humanist territory.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by lucky22
wage-slavery (ie- the FM econ choice).

This is a blantant strawman attack, a distorted view of reality which you've put forth to enhance your own agenda. Why do you think people should vote for you as a politician when you're already a lying politician?

[AdamTG02]

wage-slavery (ie- the FM econ choice)

This is a blantant strawman attack, a distorted view of reality which you've put forth to enhance your own agenda. Why do you think people should vote for you as a politician when you're already a lying politician?

He is telling the truth as he sees it. The fact that it differs from your opinions does not mean that he is fabricating it in an attempt to deceive others. It means that his opinions difer from yours.

[Zakharov VII]

Originally posted by lucky22

Only under conditions of dire emergency or if the resulting base improvement could pay for itself in energy income sooner than the current build-time. Not often.

A couple of questions...MWIA/Juliennew, I'd love to here your responses too.

1 - what do think money should be spent on, then? What other Director can make better use of money, especially early?

2 - I'd like to see how you calculate the value of Formers or Colony Pods. Or do you not consider them worthwhile hurryings?

And, rather unrelated to the above, a few scenarios I'd like to hear your responses to. Be as penny-pinching as possible, while getting results. Even if it would just be a couple of EC's in these scenarios, the general attitude is what I'm looking for. I'd like to see numbers, for hurrying/number of turns or whatever else. Ignore whatever EC's we'd get per turn, you only have the EC's indicated. Time (in terms of number of turns your plan would take) is better than surplus EC's. Elusive answers like "I wouldn't build that" I don't like...you can make those comments, but you'd better answer the scenario presented if you want my vote . Once the Recycling Tanks are complete, don't tell me your plan for building the Secret Project, as I assume in the real game such an long project would take, well, time. But do try to have as many surplus minerals from the Recycling Tank "spill over" onto the Secret Project. Finally, assume no change in minerals per turn from the loss of population caused by the completion of the Colony Pod.

Suppose, at our capital, we want to build a Colony Pod, build Recycling Tanks, then build a Secret Project.

What would you do under these circumstances...

1 - We have 115 EC's to spend on this base. The base produces 4 minerals per turn. The Colony Pod already has 10 minerals into it.

2 - We have 105 EC's to spend. Otherwise this is exactly like #1. If your answer is the same, just say so.

3 - We have 130 EC's to spend. Otherwise it's exactly like #1.

4 - We have 65 EC's to spend. Otherwise same as #1.

Thank you for your time,
Z

[MrWhereItsAt]

Zakharov, your detailed knowledge of the game makes my eyes hurt.

Oh crap. Specific questions and specific answers required. The sort of things politicians dread. Fortunately I'm just an independent.

Zakharov, I'm going to have to ask you to help me out here. What number of minerals is required to build a Colony Pod (typically)? For Lucky22 and Juliennew's sakes, we'll assume the SP is the Weather Paradigm ( cost 200) and Recycling Tanks' cost is 40. Furthermore, what is the cost per rushed mineral? I rush sometimes in my games, but without paying attention to anything beyond how much I have left, certainly not how much per mineral.

Once I know these things, I can get back to you on your scenarios. And the reason I can't just go and look at SMAC itself is that my CD-ROM drives are currently in the process of being repaired. They should be done by the end of the week, long before the game commences.

As for your 1st questions:

1. & 2. You're right - I can't think of any better use of ECs at the start than in rushing vital stuff. Colony Pods are a must, and rushed formers, OK, but I'd want no more than a small number to work on bonus and rainy tiles, in order to max our expansion (ie max benefit per former-turn). As for other early stuff to maybe rush, dejame ver....
/me consults tech tree poster

I'd go for Creches, and the odd Network Node, dependent on how many Artifacts we find.

[Nubclear]

This is a blantant strawman attack, a distorted view of reality which you've put forth to enhance your own agenda. Why do you think people should vote for you as a politician when you're already a lying politician?

*SIGH* If I got a nickel for every time the P4 has done 'strawman' attacks or has shown quite a bit of party politics....

Zakharov, I'm going to have to ask you to help me out here.

Oh good. A candidate willing to ask for help.

Anway, Lucky22 hasn't responded, so....So far, it looks like MWIA is the candidate of choice. Care to respond to my question, Lucky?

[Zakharov VII]

You know, I really like that you're willing to go to us for help .

Things needed to know...

Colony Pods take 30 Minerals.
At 10/30, each Mineral costs 3EC to hurry.
At 26/30, each Mineral costs 2EC to hurry.
At no other ##/30 should you have to hurry.

Recycling Tanks cost 40 Minerals.
Before 10, each is 4EC.
After 10, each is 2EC.

Don't fret over the Secret Project.

To tell the truth, don't fret too much at all . I don't care as much about your responses as it looks like I do (though it would be nice ). Mostly I want to make sure whoever's elected knows there are citizens out there to crunch some numbers for them (*ahem* not telling whom I'm referring to ).

So, if you've got nothing better to do, you can work out a plan, but candidates for Directorship (Directories?) must lead busy lives doing other things .

Z

[Maniac]

Juliennew, where are you? Do we need to replace your candidacy or what?

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Archaic Why do you think people should vote for you as a politician when you're already a lying politician?

"lying"?? Let's ask the worker in the recycling tanks, doomed to drone-hood at the first economic downturn. I'll get ad hominem on you, Archaic, unless you start putting up rather than putting down.

[lucky22]

Zakharov: Like MWIA I'm impressed (and a bit cowed) by your questions- I'll get back to you in about 24 hours with considered responses. Meanwhile- my first queue tends to look like:
a) defensive unit
b) children's creche
c) terraformer
then an assessment of local military and social conditions (such as you have put forth in your competence assessment) and onward.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Anway, Lucky22 hasn't responded, so....So far, it looks like MWIA is the candidate of choice. Care to respond to my question, Lucky?

Do you mean about the Empath Guild? As opposed to what, exactly? Would you like me to outline a development path which includes the Guild and discuss pros and cons? That will be a little bit of work for me, but like Zakharov's questions I can get back to you in a reasonable amount of time.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by lucky22
Zakharov: Like MWIA I'm impressed (and a bit cowed) by your questions- I'll get back to you in about 24 hours with considered responses. Meanwhile- my first queue tends to look like:
a) defensive unit
b) children's creche
c) terraformer
then an assessment of local military and social conditions (such as you have put forth in your competence assessment) and onward.

Hmm. I sense our cooperation won't be fruitful if we both would get elected Directors. Is there no way I could persuade you to build *and* rush a former first?

Does Pandemoniak agree with this queue??

[UnOrthOdOx]

MrWIA:

Man, how much free time you got?

Here I am spending every spare minute I got over there trying to make the directory and what do I find? You over here running for yet another position!

Well, more power to ya, I guess.

[Juliennew]

Hi all
Sorry not getting here before bit I didn't have much time the last few days. But now I have all my time to answer all the questions I saw here.
Before all, I will present myself a bit.

Like MWIA, I play Civ1 since 1992, Civ 2 since 1996 and Civ 3 since last december. Concerning SMAC, I played it quite much time when it was released. I give away this game until June of this year. I usually play in Librarian. I also want to tell you, even if it could deserve me, than I'm not as much experienced in SMAC as in the Civs. That's why I will rely on advises of experts players, SMAC documentation for the technical points and polls as much as possible.

ok to which kind of director (explor,military,terraforming) will you two give in general ,early game, the most support and why?

As the logic want it, I will give priority to the Director of Exploration and Intelligence and the Director of Terraforming and Colonization. Scouts, rovers, colony pods and terraformers will be my priorities. The only building I will allow at the beginning is the recycling tanks and perhaps the recreation area if there is any drones problem.

and do you have fixed (again general) build queures for new bases?

I have a fixed build queue for the first base for sure :
1 - Scout
2 - Colony pod
3 - Scout
4 - Colony pod
5 - *As we will have surely discover centaury ecology* Terraformer
I can't say it is a fixed build queue as I will rely on advises and polls very much, but it is my build queue wish.

Okay question for both canidates. Which SP is the more critical in the early game:
A. Human Genome Project
B. Weather Paragardim
C. Command Nexus
D. Merchant Exchange
E. Virtual World
F. Citizens Defense Force

Like MWIA and Lucky, I think the weather paradigm is a must have and should be built as soon as we have several formers and a high mineral production base.
For the HGP, I don't think it is really necessary (PK talent bonus) and the others SP are more usefull for us. For my others choices, I will heavily depend of our current situation. If we have Yang or Myriam on our same continent, I will give my support to command nexus and citizens defense force. But, as a fervent energy production supporter, if we have a quite peacefull situation, I will support merchant exchange.

For Both Candidates.
A)How do you view your opponents party?
B)How often would you "rush construction"
C)Although this is out of your controll to change, what is you ropinion of the elected Commisar and his party?

A) Before all, I respect all my opponents and the CCCP, the Lcuky's party. As MWIA is an independent, I can't answer. Concerning the CCCP, we have common points but I won't support their planified economy as they want this kind of economy for all the game. I support a planified ecnomy at the beginning of the game for fast expansion but I would rely on FM as soon as we have a well developped infrastructure to support it. But we share the facts that knowledge and eudemonics could be good solutions to ensure a conformtable way of life to our citizens.
B) I can't give a rigid answer on this as it also depends of the situation. I usually reserve my EC for emergancy cases : Summoning rapidly military units in case of sneak attacks for example/Or rushing a SP if another faction could complete it before us. I think it will be also usefull at the beginning to rush colony pods and recycling tanks.
C) I didn't really see the work that Crisler accomplished but it seems he did quite a good job as the game will surely begin the 1st of september, as expected. Concerning his party, we also share common points but I will never support a fundamentalist government if the FF would push for it.

Anyway, whats your view on Empath Guild?

I strongly support the acquisition of this SP. I think we must take all the advantages we can to become and stay the faction that rule the planetary council. With this position, we will ensure that the UN charter will never be removed and will veto any resolutions that aren't in our interests.

2 - I'd like to see how you calculate the value of Formers or Colony Pods. Or do you not consider them worthwhile hurryings?

As I said earlier, I will surely accept any rush of colony pods and recycling tanks in the early game.

1 - We have 115 EC's to spend on this base. The base produces 4 minerals per turn. The Colony Pod already has 10 minerals into it.

2 - We have 105 EC's to spend. Otherwise this is exactly like #1. If your answer is the same, just say so.

3 - We have 130 EC's to spend. Otherwise it's exactly like #1.

4 - We have 65 EC's to spend. Otherwise same as #1.

I will rush in all of the 4 situations (60EC) as fast expansion is my top priority in the early game.


To conclude this, you can see that I'm a fervent supporter of fast exploration and expansion. We must discover our whole continent as soon as possible and colonize it rapidly. That's why I will give priorities to all units and buildings that are leaning toward these priorities. But as I said earlier, I will rely very much on advises and polls to take good and wise decisions.

There is also a point that I want to talk about here. MWIA is a experienced demo gamer but, as I can see in his signature, he already have two terms currently running. I want to point that he won't be as avalaible as me as I will only play in this demo game and will be completely devoted to my task.

If you have any other questions, I will gladly answer to them.

Juliennew, your devoted servitor.

[Zakharov VII]

Originally posted by Juliennew
If we have Yang or Myriam on our same continent...

Sorry for being OOC for one sec, but I have to complain about the succession game...Santiago to the left, Yang to the right, who's now been eaten up by Miriam who is currently sweeping down on us. Oh well.

Back on topic, the point of those questions was to demonstrate some of the subtleties (hmm...that looks weird) of partial hurrying.

For example, at #1, if things go as follows:

1 - hurry 60
2 - CP done, start at 4/40 on Rec Tanks
3 - 8/40
4 - 12/40, hurry 54 EC's to be at 39/40 for completion next turn

we'd be satisfied as long as I had given those 115 EC's. But what if I had made it 106? At 4 only 46 EC's could be spent, leaving the Rec Tank at 35/40, unable to be completed next turn (meaning a 5th turn is necessary). However, we can do better:

1 - hurry 54 to bring the minerals to 28/30
2 - CP done, start at 2/40 on Rec Tanks
3 - 6/40
4 - 10/40, hurry 52 to bring the minerals to 36/40 for completion next turn

If we plan ahead (hurrying the 54 on the Colony Pod, not the full 60), we'll be done a turn faster. While the actual profit is not that much (on turn 6, the first way we'll have 3 minerals, the second way we'll have 4 minerals, but we'll be one nutrient and one energy ahead), we might as well be thinking of these things since, well, we'll have plenty of time to think (isn't there a limit of a minimum 2 days per turn?).

In #2, we can't quite finish as fast as #1...

1 - hurry 48 to 26/30
2 - CP done 0/40 on Rec Tank
3 - 4/40
4 - 8/40
5 - 12/40, hurry 56 to bring up to 40/40

You can still build the Rec Tanks as fast by hurrying only 48 at the end (bringing it to 36/40), but remember, you'll be 4 minerals behind on the SP, which would cost 16 to rush, while the "cheap" Rec Tank hurrying saved 8...

In #3, we should hurry the CP all the way:

1 - hurry 60 to bring mins to 30/30
2 - CP done, start at 4/40 on Rec Tanks, hurry 8 to 6/40
3 - 10/40, hurry 60 for completion next turn.

#4 was a slight opinion thing. You can hurry the Colony Pod right away, and finish the Recycling Tanks slower, or wait a bit, then hurry the Pod a bit, and be able to finish the Recyling Tanks (and, thus, the group as a whole, starting the SP faster). Opinions?

Z

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Maniac


Hmm. I sense our cooperation won't be fruitful if we both would get elected Directors. Is there no way I could persuade you to build *and* rush a former first?

How fast do we plan on growing out of the gate?

Does Pandemoniak agree with this queue??

I didn't run it by him. It was in fact off the top of my head. My first cogent response as a candidate in the face of Maniac's and Zakharov VII's commentary and cross-examination is that I realize it will pay for me to be a consensus builder. When we need to organize several individual base production scenarios simultaneously (and Zakharov I will do my homework), I will be the optimum scheduler/bureaucrat to make it happen. Or MrWhereItsAt (or Juliennew) will be, but without my particular "je ne saus quoi"

[MrWhereItsAt]

Welcome to MrWhereItsAt's word of the week. That word is DAMN.

My computer has been having CDROM problems, which needed to be fixed before I could participate in this game. I saw no reason to worry here, as there was no further problem. However, it appears that when the shop attempted to fix this small niggle, they could not boot either of my copies of Windows, and the problem may be far more serious than just some incorrectly installed CDROM drives.

So, it is with very heavy heart I have to resign from this hotly contested race. Sorry guys, I don't know what to tell you. I was very much looking forward to being a Director, and I appreciate all the support (and difficult questions ) given so far. Hopefully my computer will be repaired within a week and I can return and at least join in as a talent here, building up to another campaign for government. I may post here occasionally (acces to the 'Net is MUCH reduced), but at a fraction of the time I dedicated to it beforehand.

Sorry again to any who are annoyed at this, but it really has annoyed me too.

'Til later.
MrWIA.