Foreign Civs report

GePap · August 15, 2002, 18:03

This is another major update for the year 30 BC.

After a long trip to a land of bananas, I have returned to update this report. Much continues to change. We have made peace with two enemies, and are at war only with one. Our government has changed, and the scourge of despotism has disappered from the continent. Again, the last report, from 290bc, will be in italics.

GENERAL:
The Greek Army now strides the world. Ourselves, along with Rome and Germany, occupy the second rung.
Our Armies remain paramount, yet as war rages stronger armies are raised elsewere. already Greece and Rome have armies comparable to ours.

In the histograph, the rankings are:
1. Greece 2.English 3. Rome 4. Germany 5. Our Empire 6. Persia 7. Aztecs 8.France 9.Russia 10. Iroquois 11. Babylon 12. America (we are tied with 504 with Persia)
1. Greeks 2.English 3.Rome 4. Persia 5. France 6.Germany 7. Aztecs 8. Our Empire 9. Iroquois 10. Russia 11. Babylon 12. America
In Population, the rankings are:
1.Persia,Germany[50] 2. Greece[46] 3. Aztecs [45]
4. Our Empire,Rome [44] 5.England[43] 6.Russia[31] 7.Iroqouis[15 or 16],France[15] 8.America[10] 9. Babylon[9]
1. Germans [39] 2. Greeks [36] 3. English, Persia [33] 4. Rome [32] 5. Aztecs [30] 6. Our Empire [28] 7. Russia, france [23] 8. Iriquois [13] 9. Babylon [9] 10. America [6]
In the number of cities, the ranklings are:
1. Our Empire [19] 2.Greece [17] 3.Rome [15] 4.Aztecs [14] 5.England [13] 6. Germany, Persia [12] 7.Russia[11]
8. Iroquois [10] 9. France [9] 10. America, Babylon [5]
1. Greece, Our Empire [15] 2. Romans [14] 3. English [13] 4. Germany, Aztecs, French [12] 5. Persians, Iriquois, Russians [9] 6. Babylonians [5] 7. America [3]
In culture:
Unimpressed with our culture (our cultural superiors):
Babylon. Greece, Babylon
Impressed with our culture (our equals, or behind):
Greece, England, Persia, Germany, Aztecs, Iriqouis, Russia England, Rome, France, Persia, Germany, Aztecs, Iriqouis, Russia
Admirers of our culture (far behind culturally):
France,Rome America
In Awe of our culture (hopeless)
America
What follows are more detailed reports and some editorial content of this humble scribe:

Greece: A republic annoyed at us. They have 17 cities and 0 gold. They employ horsemen, have wine and horses in the capitol, iron and ivory in the hinterlands. They have knowledge we lack (theology). They have the GW in Athens, are building the Hanging Gardens in Athens, Sun's Academy in Sparta.
The remain in first place for the forseable future. their military has become number one. They are still at war with Aztecs, and are violating our territory.
A republic annoyed at us. They have 15 cities and 131 gold. They employ horsemen, have wine and horses in their capitol, iron and ivory in the hinterlands. The Greeks have knowledge we lack (Republic, Monarchy, Monotheism). They have the Great Wall in Athens.
The greeks have seen large population growth. The remain number one and seem likely to stay there. they face two civs in war, English, Aztecs. (Perhaps also at war with Americans ?)

England:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 13 cities and 0 gold. They employ swordmen , have wine, horses, and iron in their capitol and ivory in the hinterlands. They are building the Gardens at Hastings, Sun's Academy at Nottingham.
The English are at peace now, having failed to retake Newcastle.
A republic annoyed with us. They have 13 cities and 0 gold. They employ swordmen , have wine, horses, and iron in their capitol and ivory in the hinterlands. They have knowledge we lack (Republic, Monarchy, Monotheism)
England failed to get any wonders. They have lost a city to the Greeks, with whom they are at war. They are improving their military.

Rome:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 15 cities and 19 gold. They employ legionares and have wine and ivory, horses and iron in their capitol. They are building the Gardens at Neapolis, Sun's academy in Rome.
Rome has a run out of peaceful expansion room. Still paramount in Abananaba minor and still to enter any major war. Their great weakness is a growing lack of culture.
In Anarchy and annoyed with us. They have 14 cities and 176 gold. They employ legionares and have iron, horses, and wine in their capitol, ivory in the hinterlands. They have knowedge we lack (Republic, Monarchy, Monotheism).
Strongest Neutral state. Has seen a significant military upgrade.

Germany:
A republic furious at us. They have 12 cities and 10 gold. They employ swordmen and have horses, wines in their capitol, iron in their hinterlands. They have knowledge we lack (theology)They are building the gardens in Frankfurt, Sun's academy in Berlin.
Germany is at war with the Aztecs. They are a very large and powerful civ. The Germans are making swordmen even if they have yet to connect the iron to Berlin.
A republic at war with us. They have horses in their capitol, and it is rummored they have iron, but it is not certain either. Best possible units are either the swordmen (possible) or horsemen (positive). They are allied with France against us. They have seen explosive population growth.

Our Empire:, just for comparision.
A monarchy with 94 gold (35gpt) and 19 cities. We employ swordmen, have iron, horses, dyes in the capitol, wines in the hinterlands. We have 9 workers,16 slaves, 5 warriors, 18 spearmen, 3 archers, 2 galleys, 2 horsemen, 1 war chariot, 9 swordmen.
A depotic regime with 446 gold and 15 cities. We employ swordmen, have dyes, iron and horses in our capitol. We have 8 workers, 9 slaves, 7 warriors,17 spearmen, 5 archers, 2 galleys, and 7 swordmen.

Persia:
A republic at war with us. They have 12 cities and an average military. They still lack strategic resources. They have the pyramids, which helps explain their pop. explosion. They are building the Gardens at Pasargadae and Sun's Academy at Arbela.
In Anarchy and at war with us. Allied with France against us, with best possible unit being the archer.Has spices and Incense at their capitol)
There is a city number iregularity, with my count coming out at 9, though it is archaived as 11. So, its either 9 or 11. No more is known, as knowing more would require acts that would constitute playing ahead. They have the Great Pyramid in Persepolis.

Aztecs:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 14 cities and 14 gold. They employ horsemen and have wines, ivory, and horses in the capitol, iron in the hinterlands. They own the Great lighthouse, are building the Gardens at Tenochtitlan, Sun's academy at Teotihuacan.
The Aztecs have grown in pop. and made more roads. They are at war with three civs, Germans, Greeks, Americans. They are a fine middle power, with too much on their plate currently.
A republic annoyed with us. They have 12 cities and 8 gold. They employ horsemen and have wines and horses in the capitol, iron, ivory and spices in the hinterlands. They have knowledege we lack (Republic, Monotheism) and have built the Great Lighthouse in Tenochtitlan. They are at war with Greece.
Their empire has seen population growth but not much infrastcuture growth.

France:
A republic furious with us. They have 9 cities and 25 gold. They employ swordmen and have iron in the capitol. They are building Sun's academy in Rheims.
The War has greatly weakened France, but they still have a viable area south of the rift mountains. Sevral of their cities are now between ours.
A despotic regime at war with us, allied with germany and Persia against us. Has 12 cities. Has used swordmen in battle. Has Iron and wines in the capitol, Horses in the hinterlands.
Even though their capitol has fallen, as well as their connected source of horses, a late city bloom has given them 3 new cities, explaining then why even with two lost cities they have more cities now.

Russia:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 11 cities and 13 gold. They employ horsemen, and have horses and dyes in the capitol. They have knowledge we lack (theology). They are building the Gardens at Moscow, Sun's academy at St. Petersburg.
Russia is now a neighbor. The GL. has given them a tech, and they have also gained culturally. Gaining strength but still weak.
A Republic annoyed with us. They have 9 cities and 2 gold. They employ horsemen and have horses in their capitol. They have knowledge we lack (Monotheism, Republic) They have the Great Library in moscow.
The addition os the G.L. has imporved their culture, but actually dropped a spot in the histograph. Very weak overall.

Iroquois:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 10 cities and 19 gold. They employ archers. They have spices in the capitol, wine in the hinterands. They lack knowledge of feudalism. They are building the Gardens in Salamanca, which houses the Colossus.
The Iroqouis have gotten much weaker relative to their neighbors. They still lack roads, and their population is tiny. They have also still failed to secure any horses and access to their UU. A failing civ.
A despotic regime annoyed with us. They have 9 cities and 9 gold. They employ archers, have spices in their capitol and wines in the hinterlands. They have the Colossus in Salamanca.
Still a very weak civ, has actualy seen a population drop. As technologically backwards as us, and poor to boot.

Babylon:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 5 cities and 23 gold. They employ bowmen(still) and have horses andincense in the capitol. They own the Oracle and are building Sun's Academy in Babylon.
Babylon is still around, but has failed to gather any strength at all.
A Republic anoyed with us. they have 5 cities and 10 gold. They employ bowmen and have horses and incese at their capitol. They have knowledge we lack (Monotheism, Republic). Small but still alive and well.

America:
A republic annoyed with us. They have 5 cities and 42 gold. They employ spearmen. They have iron and incense in their hinterlands. They lack knowledge of Feudalism or Monotheism.
Seems the Americans have lost their archers! They were not at war wth greece, but are at war with Aztecs. They have actually expanded and gained pop. unlikely to die very soon.
A despotic regime annoyed with us. They have 3 cities and 22 gold. They employ archers. They may be at war with Greece (sorry, didn't make sure either way). If true, this civ is in danger of extiction.

GodKing · August 15, 2002, 18:55

Excelent update. I agree with your assesment of persia.

Shiber · August 15, 2002, 20:10

I think it would be a good idea to sell currency to the Iroquis for 25g+WM out of two reasons:
1. We'll need all the money we can get for our next techwhoring project (techs are becoming more expensive). We may also want to boost our economy by hurrying infrastructure using paid labor when we get Monarchy or Republic and money is just what we'll need.
2. Currency will give the Iroquis the ability to build marketplaces (which they won't enjoy much because they don't have any luxuries, nor do they have trade routes with most of their cities to distribute them) and access to the Medieval era. The latteer shouldn't bother us because they are a distant civ, and by the time we'll get down to dealing with the Abananaba Minor civs the Iroquis will probably be neutralized by Rome.

adaMada · August 15, 2002, 20:37

Shiber,
Interesting idea. Don't have the brain power or time to think about it seriously right now, but why don't you post it under the banner of the ASF (Adam Smith Foundation) or the Machiavelli Institute and see what the think-tanks think? (If you're not a member of either, though I think you are, I'd be happy to quote your previous post and start a topic for you.)

-- adaMada

Aro · August 15, 2002, 20:42

Great report, GePap, very useful.

Shiber:
I agree. Our money and our army are the best tools we have at the moment. Now we are in the tech trade business, but soon we will need to research by our own. The techs will cost more and more, and we MUST be the tech leader in the industrial era.
However, all this is in the future. Now, Hiawatha seems to be a perfect victim... Err…I meant partner.

The adaMada's suggestion is excellent. This deserves a good discussion.

GoodFella · August 16, 2002, 01:19

On Perisa:

Quote:

A small crowded civ with few resources.

Another reason why they pose a threat to us.

Shiber · August 16, 2002, 05:34

Quote:

Originally posted by adaMada
Shiber,
Interesting idea. Don't have the brain power or time to think about it seriously right now, but why don't you post it under the banner of the ASF (Adam Smith Foundation) or the Machiavelli Institute and see what the think-tanks think? (If you're not a member of either, though I think you are, I'd be happy to quote your previous post and start a topic for you.)

-- adaMada

Thanks, I'll do that.
I'm a member of both and the war academy.

GePap · August 16, 2002, 11:24

Quote:

Originally posted by GoodFella
On Perisa:

Another reason why they pose a threat to us.

Persia is not a long term threat in my view- Even with the pyramids they will fall behind- with no horses they won't be able to make the premier attacking units fro most of the game, knights and cavalry. Plus, their territory is out of the way- it does not make a good geographical addition to ours. Their front with us is small, through easily defensible terrain (mountains, jungles). Persia would serve us best, i think, as an all, guarding our flank, and annoying the English, who are far more powerful and dangarous an opponent to us as the game progresses.

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 12:36

How many cities do we have?

Shiber · August 16, 2002, 13:28

None. We only have towns I'm afraid (13 to be exact).

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 13:29

Ha ha.

Shiber · August 16, 2002, 14:00

Have you been eating bad bananas again Skywalker?

adaMada · August 16, 2002, 15:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Shiber

Thanks, I'll do that.
I'm a member of both and the war academy.

Same here, and that's what I thought, but wasn't totally sure, so...

.

-- adaMada

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 16:44

Shiber - it's just that puns are a MAJOR pet peeve of mine, and that was borderline.

History Guy · August 16, 2002, 16:53

A splendid report. GePap should consider the post of historian of Apolytonia.

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 16:57

Wait... Abananaba Minor IS almost next to the bottom of the map. It's been a LONG time since I looked at the map or downloaded the save.

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 16:59

Actually, if you look at it, the most likely spot for a continent would be either just east of England or west of the Ivory Coast.

Captain · August 16, 2002, 18:22

GePap,

can you rate the foreign civs with respect to the present threat they pose to us?

GoodFella · August 16, 2002, 18:28

England although strong does not pose a serious threat towards us. Because of their location around more threatening neighbors (Persia and Germany) I think they would make a better ally, along with the Aztecs.

DAVOUT · August 16, 2002, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

Persia is not a long term threat in my view- Even with the pyramids they will fall behind- with no horses they won't be able to make the premier attacking units fro most of the game, knights and cavalry. Plus, their territory is out of the way- it does not make a good geographical addition to ours. Their front with us is small, through easily defensible terrain (mountains, jungles). Persia would serve us best, i think, as an all, guarding our flank, and annoying the English, who are far more powerful and dangarous an opponent to us as the game progresses.

I agree with this clear analysis ; we need however to keep a sharp eye on them until the border is perfectly sealed.

Kuciwalker · August 16, 2002, 20:51

If we ally with England against Persia, we have to deal with Persia directly next to us. If we ally with Persia against England, Persia and England duke it out while we sit here and build up our infrastructure.

SABRA · August 18, 2002, 11:22

We should prepare to go to war , ones they are at war between themselfs .

Shiber · August 18, 2002, 11:29

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker
If we ally with England against Persia, we have to deal with Persia directly next to us. If we ally with Persia against England, Persia and England duke it out while we sit here and build up our infrastructure.

Absolutely right. Other than stationing some units in the Northeast we won't have to bother much with the English. Eventually they will even offer us favorable peace conditions (without us doing any actual fighting except for maybe countering a few attacks).

Sirotnikov · August 18, 2002, 16:10

Oy
who is Sabra?

MrWhereItsAt · August 19, 2002, 06:33

Sabra does a lot of posting in the SMAC game and I think he saw my sig about this place....

I am going for a position in that game too, and for a while abou 16 hours ago the only people demanding things of me had Israel's flag in their flag field - I began to suspect a conspiracy...

GePap · August 25, 2002, 23:11

HUGE UPDATE

Read the first post again for a massive and current update. An innaguration of the new Avatar also.

Aro · August 26, 2002, 00:42

Thanks again, GePap! The game is a little more complex now, and your update will be inestimable. Btw, great avatar. It's one of my favorites pictures of Friedrich...

GoodFella · August 26, 2002, 02:20

I'm sorry, but with all the former Perisa-loving and everyone disagreeing with me on Persia being a backstabbing threat, I can't help but say:

I told you so!

Shiber · August 26, 2002, 06:41

On the contrary, I believe we have only gained from signing a RoP with Persia. Their troops our inferior, they are currently in a state of anarchy so they can't produce new troops and they have poorly-defended settler stacks within our territory, which means more slaves for us!

GePap · August 26, 2002, 17:18

Quote:

Originally posted by GoodFella
I'm sorry, but with all the former Perisa-loving and everyone disagreeing with me on Persia being a backstabbing threat, I can't help but say:

I told you so!

The French bribed them before we did, big deal. Next time we decide to go to a big war, we should be the ones bribing, to avoid what just happened.