Thus Spoke Zarathustra

[Gnool]

For those who don't know, a few late-game techs (for example "Will to Power") quotes a book called "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". Does anyone know anything about this book? Nobody I know seems to know anything about it. I did actually find Thus Spoke Zarathustra on the net free to download, but it looked long & boring so I didn't read it

[bondetamp]

Famous book by Nietzsche. One of those German philosophers.

From Britannica.com

Definitive editions of Nietzsche's collected works have been edited by Giorgio Colli and Mazzino Montinari, Werke: Kritische Gesamtausgabe (1967– ), projected for 30 vol., of which 21 had been published by 1984, and Sämtliche Werke: Kritische Studienausgabe, 15 vol. (1980). These strictly chronological editions render all earlier collections obsolete. All books authorized for publication by Nietzsche exist in English translations, the most reliable of which are by Walter Kaufmann. The original works in the following list have been translated and edited by Walter Kaufmann unless noted otherwise: Die Geburt der Tragödie (1872; The Birth of Tragedy); Unzeitgemässe Betrachtungen, 4 vol. (1873–76; Untimely Meditations, trans. by R.J. Hollingdale); Menschliches, Allzumenschliches (1878; Human, All-Too-Human, trans. by Marion Faber and Stephen Lehmann); Morgenröte (1881; Daybreak, trans. by R.J. Hollingdale); Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (1882), new ed. augmented by book 5 and Lieder des Prinzen Vogelfrei (1887; The Gay Science); Also sprach Zarathustra, parts 1–3 (1883–84) and part 4 (1885; Thus Spoke Zarathustra); Jenseits von Gut und Böse (1886; Beyond Good and Evil); Zur Genealogie der Moral (1887; On the Genealogy of Morals); Der Fall Wagner (1888; The Case of Wagner); Götzen-Dämmerung (1889; Twilight of the Idols); Der Antichrist (1895; The Antichrist); Nietzsche contra Wagner (1895); Ecce Homo (1908). A selection from Nietzsche's notes never intended for publication appeared as Der Wille zur Macht (1901; The Will to Power, trans. by Walter Kaufmann and R.J. Hollingdale). An important translation and selection of Nietzsche's early unpublished writings is Philosophy and Truth (1979), ed. and trans. by Daniel Breazeale. The fundamental chronological edition of Nietzsche's letters by Giorgio Colli and Mazzino Montinari, Briefwechsel: Kritische Gesamtausgabe (1975– ), is planned for 20 vol., of which 17 had appeared by 1984, containing the correspondence of 1850–89. A fine selection in English is Selected Letters of Friedrich Nietzsche (1969), ed. and trans. by Christopher Middleton.

[Gnool]

Thanks, now can someone read Thus Spoke Zarathustra & tell me what the Will To Power is? j/k

[Kassiopeia]

Weeell, I've got a weekend ahead of me and I've got a copy of Thus Spoke Zarathustra loaned from the library right here... what I've concluded it's about a man named Zarathustra ( ) who gives instructions to a tribe or something like that. Philosophical ponderings and whatnot, I guess. Edit: I forgot to say, I haven't actually read it yet. Wait and see.

[Andemagne]

I think that the idea of übermench(homo superior, dunnowhatisitinenglish) gomes from nietchze, and at least that "other creators the creator seeks, not herds, not corpses nor followers, fellow creators the creator seeeks, those who write new values on new tablets, fellow harvesters the creator seeks, for him everything is ripe for harvest"-quote refers to that.

and as one can see from bondetamp's post, niitze never intented to publish "will to power". but I think that "will to power" has something to do with niitze's other ideas about christianity beeing a slave-moral, and one should rise above it, and be a master instead of a slave.

EDIT: oh of course, zarathurstra was some religious leader in iran-iraq area in sometimes BC.


ok ignore this (I just had to write it):
but beware, for I think that one should be careful with niitze, for he is not a philosopher of civilization but a philosopher of decadence.

[Dove]

Thus Spoke Zarathustra

I can't understand why anybody would want to sit at a computer and read that. Reading on paper is less eye strain I find.

I like Thus Spoke Zarathustra, it was with Zarathustra that Nietzsche introduced his cosmic concept eternal recurrence.

Read it once and you'll may believe you will read it an infinite number of times more. Yikes.

[Darius]

As Andemagne indicated, Zarathustra (Greek name Zoroaster) was a Persian who founded the religion Zoroastrianism around 650 BC. I don't know if this is the same Zarathustra Nietzsche was thinking of.

Interestingly (at least to me), when the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great (grandfather of my namesake, Darius I) conquered Babylon, his Zoroastrian beliefs influenced him to free the Hebrews who had been exiled in Babylon. According to some sources, elements of Zoroastrianism were adopted by the Hebrews and later by Christians.

Source: www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/PERSIANS.HTM

[BustaMike]

Hehe, Zoroastrianism. I've read about those guys. They worshipped dogs.

As for Nietchze, he said, "That which does not kill me makes me stronger." I've always thought that that was mostly true, but is completely ridiculous if we're talking about losing an arm or something.

[Col]

hi there

i dont normally post but this topic caught my eye as i did part of my undergraduate degree on nietzsche

the will to power is nietzsches theory of the driving force behind the whole of nature. Under this view every animal (including humans) has an inate desire to increase its influence over other things/lifeforms. This is not neccesarily as brutal as it sounds, as it could involve exerting power in a psychological or creative way (although it is often aggresive).
The superman or ubermensch is the perfect embodiment of this will. He is the antithesis of christian morality being neither meek, just, nor merciful. Rather he creates his own moral code which is justified by virtue of his superiority over 'the herd' and his greatness of spirit and embracing of life.

This philosophy was of course later taken by the nazis and used for their own ends.

One must of course take all this in context.
Nietzsche was erm . . . rather unbalanced to say the least. He was finally institutionalised after seeing a horse being whipped in the street, he subsequently hugged the creature while sobbing and broke down.

One of the reasons I love SMAC is the intellectual challenge of its concepts. What other computer game touches on such difficult subject matter while still remaining entertaining?

[Kassiopeia]

Anyone else here find a connection between Zarathustra, and Zathras of Babylon 5? Zathras uses the third person of himself, as does Zarathustra.

Nietzsche was erm . . . rather unbalanced to say the least. He was finally institutionalised after seeing a horse being whipped in the street, he subsequently hugged the creature while sobbing and broke down.

After reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra for a while, I agree. He was some strange birdie. So far at least his views on warfare and women (S/M ) have made me pout.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by BustaMike
"That which does not kill me makes me stronger."

Or for pessimists, ala the Despair, Inc Demotivators calendar
"That which does not kill me, only postpones the inevitable".

[Clear Skies]

Famous quote which didn't quite make it into 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra':

"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

Zarathustra isn't the best text out of those mentioned in SMAC (they obviously had a philosophy student on the team...). Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason and Rousseau's Discourse on Inequality (as well as his Social Contract) are both very good reads.

[Kassiopeia]

"Could it be! That old holy man in his forest hasn't heard yet that God is dead!" (translated from Finnish)

[Xian]

He was the inventor of nihilism (of course, he was not one himself) and in a way, he inspired and helped create fascism, you can very clearly see ideas in TSZ in Mein Kamf and Fight club

i have copies of all three books - a scary philosophy ill tell you that riight now

I disagree with him on every level

[Clear Skies]

Yeah, he said that to be moral was to be weak. Intensely scary bloke. He believed morality had never done anything good for the world.

[Gnool]

Woah, what a wierdo

[Kassiopeia]

Huh. The whole superhuman/übermensch concept reeks.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Clear Skies
Famous quote which didn't quite make it into 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra':

"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

"Nietzsche is God" - Dead

[Riso]

"Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule."

Friedrich Nietzsche.

[Adalbertus]

"Nietzsche is God" - Dead

Or as Heisenberg said: "There is no God and Dirac is his Prophet".

[Lefty Scaevola]

Another varient on that quote which I like is from the Aeon Flux series; "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger."