Cause of Civil War

[Tizzy]

Can someone clarify this for me,please?
I used to think that you had to be the most powerful Civ at the time you took over a capital to split the other Civ into Civil War.
Then I was told here that you have to take the capital of the most powerful Civ to split them.
Last night, in the game I was playing (OCC, which I won for the first time ), the Carthaginians were the most powerful by a long shot, and took over the Spanish capital, sending them into Civil War.

Now I'm confused

[kcbob]

I'm not sure what causes it. I just look at it as a pleasant surprise. I'll never forget the first time it happened. I had no idea it was even possible.

BTW. Congratulations on your first OCC win. You wouldn't have believed it possible when you first started playing, would you?

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Frodo lives!

[Tizzy]

quote: Originally posted by kcbob on 12-11-2000 08:59 AM BTW. Congratulations on your first OCC win.

Thanks!!

I was pretty surprised to win, as I didn't get a very good start.
My best site was landlocked, so I had to wait till someone else built on my island before I could set up trade routes - didn't get my first one till well into AD.

[Wiglaf]

Civil war is (in my experiance) caused by capturing a large nation's capital. That's all - you don't have to be a specific size. When you go to war with them the comp should say "rebel factions are threatening to start a war..." - that's your signal.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I posted a similar question recently. For what it's worth: in a recent game (ToT, King-level), the 2nd- or 3rd- most powerful civ captured the capital of the 4th-most-powerful and set off a civil war, splitting their remaining 4 measley cities into 2 civs. Both civs were AIs. This doesn't conform to any of the conventional wisdom on how civil wars happen. Go figure.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Tizzy]

quote: Originally posted by SMACed on 12-11-2000 08:09 PM When you go to war with them the comp should say "rebel factions are threatening to start a war..." - that's your signal.

I've never seen that warning/advice.
I don't know until I take the capital (or somone else does) that the Civ will split.

So, is it completely random then, or is there some sort of weird logical process that escapes us all?

[Scouse Gits]

The 'rebel factions' message:

quote: The %STRING0 are a large and powerful civilization. However, rebel factions threaten to start a civil war. If your armies can capture their capital city, the shock could split the country in two!

is contained only in the Tutorial.txt file. that would explain why few of us recall ever seeing it before.
For what it is worth - at Deity/Raging I only recall seeing a civil war when I have conquered the capital of the most powerful nation - fairly rare as I am usually that nation myself, but once in OCC ...


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
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[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited December 12, 2000).]

[Gatekeeper]

Tizzy, et al.:

In my current game the Zulus conquered the Roman Empire on the large Earth map. I later came along, as the English, and took Zimbabwe, thus splitting the Zulus into two nations: Zulus and Celts.

Nothing strange there, except that the Celts were eventually reassimilated back into the Zulu Empire. I then to Hlobane (the second Zulu capital) and, voila!, the Zulus once again split into two nations. This time it was the Zulus and the Spanish. Anyway, I then went to war against the Mongols and took their capital. They split in two, forcing the re-appearance of the Celts.

The only difference this time, though, was the fact that the Celts were led by Boadicea instead of Cunobelin.

Is that strange or what? I was kind of hoping the Russians would emerge. Oh well.

CYBERAmazon

[Wiglaf]

Nah, I was playing deity w/ the mongols. Now I'm nice and confused

[Mercantile]

I think that message might come up on the easiest level or an easier level than deity. I recall seeing this message but i am perplexed to remember the level i was playing. Either that or the instant advice or tutorial help is on. I think it might be the latter , but i havent' had that on for some time now

[Albert B]

I will preface this by saying that many things in the manual have been proven incorrect in other threads and that I don't have the manual in front of me but I do have a pretty good memory...

Having said that, according to the manual a civil war starts if :

1. Any civ captures the capital of another civ that is larger (based on the number of cities I'm pretty sure.)

2. There is room for a new civ to be added i.e.:fewer than 7 currently in the game and at least one civ that has not previously been wiped out (Germans, Zulus, etc can only be killed once per game...)

I think that is all of the listed requirments but there may be another one. Also, you can find several exceptions to these rules if you look around the site. Without a comprehensive study done by someone to try to crack the "real" code of civil war (i.e. oedo's change government table, the SGs' startup statistics, etc.) that's about the best I can do for you now.

Albert B

[Albert B]

I tried to verify my memory quickly this morning before leaving for work... I couldn't find anything in the civ 2 manual that I have (came with MPGE) but I did find the information I was referencing in my 'official Civ I strategy guide'. It is a book called something like "The Guide to Sid Meier's Civilization (or Rome on 640k a day)". Basically it was a book put together by a couple of civ fans that did a bunch of research on the game similar to what has been posted on this sight. It listed what the actual formulas where suppose to be for everthing from the chance for pollution to appear in a given city radius to how the demographic scores are calculated. Anyway for civ I, the criteria for civil war is basically as I listed it. A civ must capture the capital of a larger civ (I always assumed larger to be more cities but it doesn't spell this out very clearly), there must be less than 7 civs in the game and the civ that is losing their capital must still have 4 or more cities left after capital is captured.

I think I'll try to do a little research into this on civ 2 but I have no idea when I'll get around to it. Between work, a two year old and doing some personal code writing to experiment with programming AI into games (not to mention the holidays), I'm pretty busy right now.

[East Street Trader]

Albert B.

Think its population not cities.

[The Undertaker]

Does anyone know a way to increase the probability of a Civil War in any of the txt files?

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"You're fired." - Jack Larkin