Multiple Polls per Poll?

Epistax · August 17, 2002, 22:20

Official Poll

Question: Should a single poll thread be able to officially poll more than one item- such as more than one amendment-- using grouping, with each individual poll abiding by the COL?

Options: Yes / No

This poll expires in 3 days

Epistax · August 17, 2002, 22:24

I'm sorry not to have a pre poll discussion on this but it is a pretty simple question. This would insure us the ability to make rapid reforms to the constitution fixing small errors, and also save space. For instance one amendment that would simply edit a single line of the COL should not be given the same major coverage as a large amendment.

This is to save on clutter, mainly.

This is also my very first poll. I thought I might as well do it on a non-critical matter because I'd hate to screw it up. Feel free to discuss before voting! A yes will allow the COL to be updated a tad bit smoother.

EDIT:

As outline by the COL, the very first post would have to include the information needed for a single poll, for each individual poll inside (although likely with a single expiration date). This would require a lengthy unbiased first post, but that's better than ten short posts in separate threads.

Apocalypse · August 17, 2002, 22:25

Sure. (Yes).

Are you sure pre-poll discussion isn't required in the COL?

Apocalypse · August 17, 2002, 22:27

Never mind. It just recommends pre-poll discussion.

Epistax · August 17, 2002, 22:29

Quote:

Those who wish to put up a poll are strongly recommended to first discuss the issue in another thread, and bounce around possible options for voting.

And I do apologize. But I do not see how that would effect this poll too much, given the simplicity, any discussion can easily be done in here.

EDIT: Damn you beat me!

DAVOUT · August 18, 2002, 08:18

I suggest that at least the polls included in a multiple poll are dealing of a common subject, otherwise we would see titles such as : multiple poll on miscellaneous matters.

civman2000 · August 18, 2002, 08:41

Sure, this is a great idea! DAVOUT's change is unnecessary IMHO, if there are multiple misscelaneous subjects it will most likely be unclear anyways.

Ignore those people that say it should've been discussed first

. For something this simple, it is unnecessary

Spiffor · August 18, 2002, 10:43

Before voting, I'd like an explanation : does it completely ban the group voting, or does it just ban several questions to be asked ?

For example, will a poll like

Quote:

"What should our term limits be ?
-Group A - 1 term
-Group A - 2 terms
-Group A - 3 terms
-Group B - none"

be allowed should your amendment pass ?
I'll hold my vote until the nasxer. I overall think grouping answers is excellent, while grouping questions is bad.

Epistax · August 18, 2002, 10:50

Spiff, I believe that is already allowed

Anyway I think it'll be funny if 'No' for this wins. I should post 10 amendments right after.. nah that would be malicious.

SABRA · August 18, 2002, 11:08

Yes , it should .

Shiber · August 18, 2002, 11:13

I don't see why they shouldn't, if whoever posted the poll feels that it's necessary.
I vote yes.

Epistax · August 18, 2002, 11:21

While archiving former polls, I came across this:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=54676

It is a poll by timeline for 3 separate amendments. It is exactly what I am talking about. It's already been done. Let's make it legal

The reason I'd like the legality assured is so that there is no argument against an amendment or poll because it is with another in the same thread.

Epistax · August 18, 2002, 12:20

I am going to bump this so it will get some votes. Hows about removing the topped elections?

Panag · August 18, 2002, 12:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Epistax
While archiving former polls, I came across this:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=54676

It is a poll by timeline for 3 separate amendments. It is exactly what I am talking about. It's already been done. Let's make it legal

The reason I'd like the legality assured is so that there is no argument against an amendment or poll because it is with another in the same thread.

hi ,

that is the kind of poll that we should have all the time , ....

yes

have a nice day

Captain · August 18, 2002, 15:24

As long as such polls are very clear, which I am not convinced they would be.

For example, civman's BOR poll had several options.

Item A yes
Item A no
Item B yes
Item B no
Item C yes
Item C no

In which case it would need to allow multiple votes, but multiple votes would also allow people to vote yes and no to the same issue, or to accidentally only vote yes to one and not vote for any others, which would deprive them of the chance to vote on the other issues.

Yes, it is possible this would work fine and be completely clear, but I am not convinced a Bush-Gore Florida situation would not occur. What? I voted for who? I thought I was voting for something else!

I also don't think it's a major problem. IF the amendments are minor enough not to warrant their own separate poll, then they're not important to warrant separate amendments. Make them one amendment. If they're minor, it'll likely pass anyways.

Or perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by grouping amendments.

Do you mean:

Pass Amendments 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12?
Yes
No

Or separate Yes/No for each amendment?

The first way is better.

Epistax · August 18, 2002, 15:50

Captain: It would have to be a yes/no for each. I see where you're getting with confusion, but being forced to vote for something because you like the other things with it (first way) is absurd. That is how modern bills are done in the US and I find it horrid.

As far as someone voting yes and no on the same option, all that does is hurt how that person wanted to vote, and no one else. It's weaker than both a yes and a no, so it can't be used for malicious intent. Accidently voting for both yes and no is simply another way of accidently voting for yes instead of no, or reverse, just doesn't hurt as much,

Edit: It would be quite easy to make an understandable poll like this. Options such as:
Cheese is good: YES
Cheese is good: NO
I like cows: YES
I like cows: NO
Shouting SPOOOON makes you cool: YES
Shouting SPOOOON makes you cool: NO

Panag · August 19, 2002, 05:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
As long as such polls are very clear, which I am not convinced they would be.

For example, civman's BOR poll had several options.

Item A yes
Item A no
Item B yes
Item B no
Item C yes
Item C no

In which case it would need to allow multiple votes, but multiple votes would also allow people to vote yes and no to the same issue, or to accidentally only vote yes to one and not vote for any others, which would deprive them of the chance to vote on the other issues.

Yes, it is possible this would work fine and be completely clear, but I am not convinced a Bush-Gore Florida situation would not occur. What? I voted for who? I thought I was voting for something else!

I also don't think it's a major problem. IF the amendments are minor enough not to warrant their own separate poll, then they're not important to warrant separate amendments. Make them one amendment. If they're minor, it'll likely pass anyways.

Or perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by grouping amendments.

Do you mean:

Pass Amendments 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12?
Yes
No

Or separate Yes/No for each amendment?

The first way is better.

hi ,

, intresting , a mix with the best of each would do it

that example you brought up was also good

have a nice day

jdjdjd · August 19, 2002, 11:18

Is this an amendment to the CoL?

Kloreep · August 19, 2002, 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by jdjdjd
Is this an amendment to the CoL?

I don't think so. There certainly isn't any text that would go in the CoL. I think Epistax just wanted to establish this type of poll as an acceptable format, so that the court doesn't have to worry about their validity.

Panag · August 21, 2002, 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by jdjdjd
Is this an amendment to the CoL?

hi ,

it could be intresting to add it , ...;why not

have a nice day

Epistax · August 21, 2002, 09:54

This poll is now past. To recap, people need no longer to fear when making multiple official polls under a single thread, as long as each individual poll follows the rules!

SABRA · August 21, 2002, 10:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Epistax
This poll is now past. To recap, people need no longer to fear when making multiple official polls under a single thread, as long as each individual poll follows the rules!

Okay maybe a spupid question , but what are the rule's ?

Epistax · August 21, 2002, 11:07

As the poll stated, each individual poll in the thread must follow the COL, whatever they may say. Every poll must be explained in the first post, every option in every poll must be explained (aside from yes and no).

This way if the COL gets updated with new poll rules, they follow straight through to these.

Panag · August 22, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Epistax
As the poll stated, each individual poll in the thread must follow the COL, whatever they may say. Every poll must be explained in the first post, every option in every poll must be explained (aside from yes and no).

This way if the COL gets updated with new poll rules, they follow straight through to these.

hi ,

that is good , no more confusing stuff , just follow the COL

even when some shall argue that it aint good , well at least now there is some clarity about it

have a nice day