Strakorfskys Thought On Ancient Invasions

[Strakorfsky]

Good day, First off, I want to thank you for reading my post and hope that both you and I will learn something from this.

*DISCLAIMER*: By reading this your are inherintly given your own oppinion of what you think is right or wrong. You have the right to claim anyone statement if you have alreayd wrote it, inferred it, or in any other way thought of the subjects written here. If you wish for me to add quotes of ownership of a certain thought, simply ask me.

Now...When you start this game, actually, before that. When you pop the CD of Civ 3 in and want to start a new game, you must make a very important choice, "shall I be a builder or a destroyer?" Often, being a being a builder has advantages in the cheiften-regent stages but, ounce you advance to monarch, it seems military is the only way, so, let us begin finaly.

First off all, when you start, before anoything else, CONTACT your local city governer. At first, it seems easy to micro-manage your cities, but, you will fidn that dealing with your capital will make you a bit antzy for more bloodlust, so, simply put your governer on "manage happiness, emphasize prod., and commerc."
This will make it a lot easier for you to deal with the capital because how you use it is key to winning. With everything in the capital in place, now, begine building a scout unit to look for civs, if expansionist, start build barracks. Now, use your single worker to start build a road to possible enemys, amke your first road so that it can branch off if needed, finding an enemy fast is key so you can direct a road to them.So, everything in the capital is fine and underway, but the fun is not over yet.
Use the new "Production Que" to get units under way without having to micro-manage, avoinding a lot of city micro-managing can really save time and lesson the stress on you, the player. Set your Que to build one expansion unit, a worker/barracks*, and then 6 archers, after the archers is really just up to you, expanding to make a settler is often the smartest thing. (sometimes, building another worker can really help when building the early road to a civ, just remeber, if the civ is close, you won't need too, but, if it is over 20 turns away, make that worker pronto!) After the barracks are done, the archers. By now, you should nearly have the road either complete, or 1/2 complete*. (Of course how big the map is will affect your progress, remeber about roads though, if a small-tiny map, you will probably not need roads, but average-huge, yes, you will REALLY!!!! need them for early conquest.) For more information of the principles of road building,. look for the Thread Roads, Best offense for Ancient made by Strakorfsky, oh wait, thats me, silly little man I am . Now after your first archer force is away, you should ahve researched iron working or bartored it from another more advance civ*. (Do nto be afraid to give several techs to a civ for iron working, even paying them 1 gpt may need to be done if your iron working is 20+ turns away, and trust me, YOU'LL NEED IT!) So, your archers are away with your spearman, watch as they crush the tech-filled AI, ounce they ack for peace, milk them of all things, and EVERYTHING, do nto be shy to ask for almost all their advnaces, gold, and very mcuh try and get communications and maps, this will allow you to trade and trade more techs*.(SOmetimes a civ will have map makings, so you'll be able to take map making and next turn beable to demand or trade for their maps or communic., these will be extremly useful in the comming ages.) So, you're first conquest is done, and a fe archers left no problem, so, by now, your two/one worker should be enaring the other civ, remeber that iron working I mentioned? Well, by now, a new city should be done and your economy is probably weak because you have not improvd your capital tiles, but do not, it will come in time. So, DO WHATEVER MUST BE DONE TO SECURE IRON, MAKE A COLONY, OR BUILD A ROAD TO IT. Now that you have iron, you can make construction on your swordsman, use the city with the most production and start on swordsman, have the otehr one pump out settlers and workers like crazy, do not build any improvements in the city making workers/settlers, yet at least. So, say we are now in 1500BC, by now, you should have nearly 5 cities or so, and most either making swordsman or barracks to make swordsman, like you did the capital, contact governer on all, and specialize to their individual talents. With the workers, make sure they are only improving your "elite" tiles, anythng not needed is a waste of turns, and every turn REALLY does count. Okay, lets take stock, you "pruned" one empire,a nd should now have enough swordsman to go for another, also, some insist on catapult, but I find them uneccesary for early militARy attacks, because the AI is still expanding right now. And Swordsman can uproot a fortified spearman. So, now attack the next victim around you, capture their capital and they will sue for peace, demand techs and gold and communic. liek before, then move on to the next empire. When you get Chivilary, this stratagy of using roads becomes less offective, because knigths are like a better swords man on a horse, and most AIs will not start upgrading spearsman, so, you have an easy time knocking out spearman with knight. Well, if you play all your cards right, you can come out ahead in techs, gold, and terretory, while all yuor nearby foes are suffering from your killer early attacks, and are unable to catch up.

Well, typing all that made my hands hurt, and I am sorry for all the mispells, but I summerize it as this," attack early, extort all techs, gold, communic, and make peace in late middle age." If you do it along those guidlines, you are as sure as won, good hunting!

-Ronnie

[Thrawn05]

You basicly hit the nail on the head (sorry for the cliche).


I play as Rome all the time, and what I do is build up a few warriors, 2 to defend and 1 to scout. Then I build my barracks and then build endless amounts of archers. Once I start seeing the AI build spearmen, then I head for my legionary and kick butt. I avoid horsemen for some odd reason.

Once I taken out a civ or two (I turn off respawn players, it's anoying), i start building my legionary like clockwork. I skip knights and head for Calvery. This is a luxery I can afford in this case, because I killed everyone else on my continent.

I don't usualy do this, since I'm not fond of Archers getting killed by a single regular warrior.

[Strakorfsky]

Yes, the porblems with archers annoyed me also, but, building nine will kill them and leave at leasta few to spare.

Also, investing in swordsman is crucial until you can get knight, even though they can not upgrade, they are the best ancient era unit.

About defence, I generaly play without very man defenders. I find defence only useful for three things, blocking your offensive roads from enemy civs, defending newly won terretory, and defending ancient age attackers. When defending home cities, try and keep offence units near-by, they can ussualy destroy any attackign force. Also, I have tried this on monarch, make three defence units, and nine bombard units, and then move these on mountains,hills, ect... to hurt their units. The trick is that the AI will NEVER attack with crippled units, so you just foiled a possible invasion.

-Ronnie

[Coracle]

Well thought out. But I would like to suggest you do something few people do anymore - USE PARAGRAPHS. It is easier to read that way, and more people will read it. Which is what you want.

Example:

First off all, when you start, before anoything else, CONTACT your local city governer. At first, it seems easy to micro-manage your cities, but, you will fidn that dealing with your capital will make you a bit antzy for more bloodlust, so, simply put your governer on "manage happiness, emphasize prod., and commerc."

This will make it a lot easier for you to deal with the capital because how you use it is key to winning. With everything in the capital in place, now, begine building a scout unit to look for civs, if expansionist, start build barracks. Now, use your single worker to start build a road to possible enemys, amke your first road so that it can branch off if needed, finding an enemy fast is key so you can direct a road to them.So, everything in the capital is fine and underway, but the fun is not over yet.

Use the new "Production Que" to get units under way without having to micro-manage, avoinding a lot of city micro-managing can really save time and lesson the stress on you, the player. Set your Que to build one expansion unit, a worker/barracks*, and then 6 archers, after the archers is really just up to you,

expanding to make a settler is often the smartest thing. (sometimes, building another worker can really help when building the early road to a civ, just remeber, if the civ is close, you won't need too, but, if it is over 20 turns away, make that worker pronto!) After the barracks are done, the archers.

By now, you should nearly have the road either complete, or 1/2 complete*. (Of course how big the map is will affect your progress, remeber about roads though, if a small-tiny map, you will probably not need roads, but average-huge, yes, you will REALLY!!!! need them for early conquest.) For more information of the principles of road building,. look for the Thread Roads, Best offense for Ancient made by Strakorfsky, oh wait, thats me, silly little man I am .

Now after your first archer force is away, you should ahve researched iron working or bartored it from another more advance civ*. (Do nto be afraid to give several techs to a civ for iron working, even paying them 1 gpt may need to be done if your iron working is 20+ turns away, and trust me, YOU'LL NEED IT!) So, your archers are away with your spearman, watch as they crush the tech-filled AI, ounce they ack for peace, milk them of all things, and EVERYTHING, do nto be shy to ask for almost all their advnaces, gold, and very mcuh try and get communications and maps, this will allow you to trade and trade more techs*.(SOmetimes a civ will have map makings, so you'll be able to take map making and next turn beable to demand or trade for their maps or communic., these will be extremly useful in the comming ages.)

So, you're first conquest is done, and a fe archers left no problem, so, by now, your two/one worker should be enaring the other civ, remeber that iron working I mentioned?

Well, by now, a new city should be done and your economy is probably weak because you have not improvd your capital tiles, but do not, it will come in time. So, DO WHATEVER MUST BE DONE TO SECURE IRON, MAKE A COLONY, OR BUILD A ROAD TO IT.

Now that you have iron, you can make construction on your swordsman, use the city with the most production and start on swordsman, have the otehr one pump out settlers and workers like crazy, do not build any improvements in the city making workers/settlers, yet at least. So, say we are now in 1500BC, by now, you should have nearly 5 cities or so, and most either making swordsman or barracks to make swordsman, like you did the capital, contact governer on all, and specialize to their individual talents.

With the workers, make sure they are only improving your "elite" tiles, anythng not needed is a waste of turns, and every turn REALLY does count.

Okay, lets take stock, you "pruned" one empire,a nd should now have enough swordsman to go for another, also, some insist on catapult, but I find them uneccesary for early militARy attacks, because the AI is still expanding right now. And Swordsman can uproot a fortified spearman. So, now attack the next victim around you, capture their capital and they will sue for peace, demand techs and gold and communic. liek before, then move on to the next empire.

When you get Chivilary, this stratagy of using roads becomes less offective, because knigths are like a better swords man on a horse, and most AIs will not start upgrading spearsman, so, you have an easy time knocking out spearman with knight.

Well, if you play all your cards right, you can come out ahead in techs, gold, and terretory, while all yuor nearby foes are suffering from your killer early attacks, and are unable to catch up.

[Capt Dizle]

Coracle on grammar.

[Coracle]

Now that it was possible to actually READ (owing to paragrphs) the obvious question that comes to mind is, "why aren't you concerned about Culture Flipping"?

You did not exterminate a civ - a civ which may have a lot more culture than you owing to all your archer and barracks building. Aren't you afraid of a crazy flip?

Thankfully, in PTW we can turn off crazy Flipping.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Coracle on grammar.

That was about STYLE, not grammar.

James Joyce might be able to get away with run on paragraphs that never end, but no one else.

I've seen that phenonemon in many forums - and it just proves to me public education everywhere doesn't teach paragraphs anymore.

But this is off topic. My issue is how can the guy build so much military, not exterminate his neighbor civ, but not worry aboput crazy Flips?

[Barchan]

Originally posted by Coracle
My issue is how can the guy build so much military, not exterminate his neighbor civ, but not worry aboput crazy Flips?

Perhaps he's playing at lower levels? I'm no mathematician, and so I couldn't follow the CF equations posted a few weeks back, but it seems like on Deity cities flip more often than acrobats at Cirque du Soleil. I’m beginning to feel your pain, Coracle, after slogging through 1337’s “challenge”.

The flipping problem is exacerbated on Deity because a) you *have* to conquer cities in order to have a chance of catching up to the AI’s massive head start, and b) you usually never have the time to build temples and libraries to build culture (wonders are pretty much right out), and c), more citizens per city are unhappy. Thus, you’re pretty much screwed if you take over a 6+ pop city. Your culture is generally dwarfed by the enemy and, although I’ve never liked this from the start, you get no culture points for capturing any great wonders (what, the Pyramids are no less spectacular because the Persians own them?). Unhappiness + culture deficit = Flips Ahoy! I’ve lost armies and stacks two to three times the size of the city in flips. On Deity, it’s an absolute killer to lose all those units at once, no doubt about it.

So you’ve got four choices: capture and occupy, capture and observe, capture and abandon, and raze (salting fields optional). If the city has a great wonder, it can be very painful to raze or abandon the city. Plus, if it has barracks, you’d probably really like to stuff as many units in as possible to heal and press the offensive. But on Deity, particularly if the enemy’s borders surround the city you capture, if you capture and occupy you can pretty much count on a flip, and damn whatever the equation says is sufficient to prevent it. The only counter I’ve found to this is the capture and observe method. Take the city and then leave it empty and in resistance, setting up your garrison just outside the city (but still on your turf so they can heal). If it flips, take out the newly-minted defensive unit before it can fortify and repeat until the city is either 1-pop (and then it might be safe to garrison), you’ve captured other surrounding cities and the borders have vanished (might be safe to garrison), or you’ve eliminated the offending civ (good to go!)

It seems a stupid thing to have to do, but the game sort of forces you to do it. I like the culture concept and the possibilities it offers, but the all-or-nothing approach to culture flips is frightfully excessive. Heck, even if the city flipped and kicked your garrison, all beaten down to 1 HP, outside the city limits I’d be able to handle it (I wouldn't like it, but I could handle it). But for them to all just go *poof* adds insult to injury, IMHO.

[Strakorfsky]

Actaully, I ussauly disband most of the cities I capture, so, I eliminate the problem of culture shifting, so, my home cities are far awayl, thus diminishing the chance, I am only concerned about culture on middle-modern age, if I am on those time, I willn build a temple and cathedral fvor every city.

Ussauly, in the early game, it takes too much time to build up a sturdy culture, by the time I had the first temple, two archers could be built, now, I start building culture before AD if I know I am not going to be killing my immidiat civs in the area.

Sorry for not including the culture thingy, it is just I consider culture not important till the middle age.

Also, thank you for the compliment, I had a difficult time reading what people had because it was in a blob so I paragraphed everything. Also, most of th mispells are because I was very tired and weary.

-Ronnie

[Strakorfsky]

Yea, I really should have over viewed my thing, I was so tired, I had completly forgotten about the cultural mess I get myself into on Monarch sometimes. When dealing with early culture, just disnband sucky cities your capture, the worker you get might be more useful because you can improve your home city or settler city.

If you would like to keep the city, like he said, garrison units out side and reqonquer the unfortified spearman/pikeman ect...

Also, I did not include much about armies, when using armys, they are great for early age offense, because they have much more health then most defending units, one consisting of 3 swordsman, or 3 spearman can be a great offense or a VERY GREAT defense for stacks of swordsman. The only prob. is that getting a GL in the 3000-1500 times is very rare, and you will be tempted wiht making the FP or Pyramids with it. I often make an army and get heoric Epic, I think that patch fixed it so It would really work this time! Welll anyways, when the AI sees an army, it will ussauly be screamish to attack it, because a good defense army is undestructible until the AI attacks with either swordsman or Knights. Either way, this gives you a lot of time to use in Ancient military.

I am not going into detail on middle age offense for the sake of staying on topic but, heading to chivalry will give you the extra boost you need if you were nto very good in Ancient age, just keep in mind that crippling the AI early in the game will make it much easier to dominate qand have fun in the last three, for more on that look at Theseus's thread "Winning Early" What do YOU do. if I was a newbie, that would be the best help possible on learning small skills that will allow you to acomplish what I have written.

Well, if you have any more comments, just write them here, I will not be on for a while, not till' about American Central time at 5:30.

PS: keep sending post, every one you send makes it more likely to amke em a cheiften on my rank thingy!

-Ronnie

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Coracle
Now that it was possible to actually READ (owing to paragrphs) the obvious question that comes to mind is, "why aren't you concerned about Culture Flipping"?

You did not exterminate a civ - a civ which may have a lot more culture than you owing to all your archer and barracks building. Aren't you afraid of a crazy flip?

Thankfully, in PTW we can turn off crazy Flipping.

Yes this is a problem, but I have a solution. If a city I just captured flips, I just go back to that city (since it's only defended by a spearman usualy) and raze it. Problem solved.