What resources do you think should be added to the game

[Deathwalker]

What resources do you think we add to the game using the editor or what rources have you added

[Amadan]

Originally posted by Deathwalker
What resources do you think we add to the game using the editor or what rources have you added

Timber - forest - Strategic - necesarry for the great sailing ships

Jade & Silver as bonus resources

Pearls and Salt as luxury resources (set pearls to luxury to control their appearance rate)

[Willem]

I've added Nickel with Metallurgy, which I need for Cannons and more advanced guns than Muskets. I've also added Copper and Tin in Bronze working. Also several types of stone for buildings, like Granite and Paper for Libraries, Courthouses etc. And of course Timber.

It's been great since Firaxis tripled the appearance numbers. Now you can have a strategic resource that's almost as common as a bonus.

PS Oh yeah, also Titanium for spaceship parts and satellites etc.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Willem
I've added Nickel with Metallurgy, which I need for Cannons and more advanced guns than Muskets. I've also added Copper and Tin in Bronze working. Also several types of stone for buildings, like Granite and Paper for Libraries, Courthouses etc. And of course Timber.

It's been great since Firaxis tripled the appearance numbers. Now you can have a strategic resource that's almost as common as a bonus.

PS Oh yeah, also Titanium for spaceship parts and satellites etc.

Nickel's a good one - vital for jet engines and nuclear containment vessels.

For steel you need limestone also.

Critical ones for jet engines: chromium and vanadium, molybdemum(sp?).

Another one that's essential for many modern alloys is cobalt.

To do resources right would be a good idea to increase the number of requireds to more than 3 as it is now in the editor - jets would need something like 6-8 or more.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

To do resources right would be a good idea to increase the number of requireds to more than 3 as it is now in the editor - jets would need something like 6-8 or more.

With the last patch, the number of a particular resource has been increased to a total of 90 each, a threefold increase. However, it seems that there's an absolute limit. The more strategic recources I add, the less bonus ones I end up with. So there's room for much more complexity as to requirements, but only so much. I'm finding it best to keep it to basics.

I've added Limestone as a building requirement, it's an important ingredient for concrete. I hadn't considered it for Steel though, I should keep that in mind for my Battleships etc. Though I suspect that I have all my resource slots for that unit filled up by now.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Willem
With the last patch, the number of a particular resource has been increased to a total of 90 each, a threefold increase. However, it seems that there's an absolute limit. The more strategic recources I add, the less bonus ones I end up with. So there's room for much more complexity as to requirements, but only so much. I'm finding it best to keep it to basics.

Almost like bonus resources should have an independent appearance rate maybe. Have to confess haven't played much yet with adding resources, units, ect. - just working basic system.

Originally posted by Willem
I've added Limestone as a building requirement, it's an important ingredient for concrete. I hadn't considered it for Steel though, I should keep that in mind for my Battleships etc. Though I suspect that I have all my resource slots for that unit filled up by now.

Was my problem in a hurry for things that need steel (coal & iron in game as is) and oil and say rubber (seals, gaskets, ect.) - like tanks - kind of had to compromise.

Another few thought of:
diamonds - very important for modern industry - am to understand WWII in Europe would have ended 1-2 years early if they'd not gotten diamonds smuggled out through Vichy-occupied Africa from southern Africa.

zinc - for brass, all kinds of stuff
magnesium - important for aluminum alloys

rare earth magnetic material like neodynium & samarium

for the ancients - spearmen/hoplite could require tin & copper
seems like copper would be good anyway - have to have for electricity.

Liked the one above on timber for ships.

Gold might be better as strategic too rather than an all to common extra.

Some common important alloys, what's in them, uses:
Hastelloys - Nickel/Chrome/Iron/Moly/sometimes cobalt - piping and other stuff to deal with high temp and corrosive chemicals.

Inconels - Nickel/Iron/Chrome/sometimes cobalt - nuclear reactors, jet engines - high temp, strength, corrosion applications.

Stainless Steel - Nickel/Chrome/Iron/Moly

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera
Almost like bonus resources should have an independent appearance rate maybe. Have to confess haven't played much yet with adding resources, units, ect. - just working basic system.

for the ancients - spearmen/hoplite could require tin & copper
seems like copper would be good anyway - have to have for electricity.

I've added both to my game. The tin only has a limited use, mainly early in the game, but the copper is used for a number of things later, e.g. power stations, Hoover Dam, spaceship parts etc

Liked the one above on timber for ships..

That seemed rather obvious to me, I don't know why Firaxis didn't include it themselves.

Gold might be better as strategic too rather than an all to common extra.

Yes, it didn't make sense to me that Gold was more common in the game than Iron was. I've made it a requirement for Banks, and some gov specific versions of Wall Street I've created.

Some common important alloys, what's in them, uses:
Hastelloys - Nickel/Chrome/Iron/Moly/sometimes cobalt - piping and other stuff to deal with high temp and corrosive chemicals..

Inconels - Nickel/Iron/Chrome/sometimes cobalt - nuclear reactors, jet engines - high temp, strength, corrosion applications.

Stainless Steel - Nickel/Chrome/Iron/Moly

Yes well, there are limits, so it's best not to get to carried away.

I've also been adding some invisible resources, to represent the creativity of the people themselves. One is Artistry, another is Discovery, then finally Revelation, or Rapture as I'm calling it. I don't think Revelation will fit in the right-click graphic window. These three will represent the creative, scientific, and religious inspirations of my civilization.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Willem
Yes, it didn't make sense to me that Gold was more common in the game than Iron was. I've made it a requirement for Banks, and some gov specific versions of Wall Street I've created.

Am to assume you changed it to a Strategic from a bonus then?
sidebar: made my Wall Street (and Pentagon) require Corporation.

Originally posted by Willem
Yes well, there are limits, so it's best not to get to carried away.

Of course, these are made anyway, but just intended to show importance of chrome, your nickel, moly, and cobalt.

Originally posted by Willem
I've also been adding some invisible resources, to represent the creativity of the people themselves. One is Artistry, another is Discovery, then finally Revelation, or Rapture as I'm calling it. I don't think Revelation will fit in the right-click graphic window. These three will represent the creative, scientific, and religious inspirations of my civilization.

So in game terms how do you find these, or do you start with them, and what do they do?

On copper, make your own graphic then?

[Coracle]

Tin and Zinc. Vital for alloys of copper.

Maybe gold should be a resource unlike what it is now.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

Am to assume you changed it to a Strategic from a bonus then?
sidebar: made my Wall Street (and Pentagon) require Corporation.

Yes, as it should be. The quest for gold has begun many a war throughout history.

So in game terms how do you find these, or do you start with them, and what do they do?

I'm still playing with them. I've created 3 "inspiration" resources, Artistry, Discovery, which represents science, and Revelation, for religion. Each gives a 1/1/1 bonus to a square, but is also needed for various buildings. Revelation for Temple and Cathedral, Discovery for Library etc. I have a thread about it going on here:

Invisible Resource

As for finding them I don't really, they're just supposed to happen. But they do show up as extra food etc. in the city view, and I can find them by right clicking on the terrain, if I suspect they're there.

And no, my coppper icon is borrowed, I've just been using other peoples stuff. If it looks good I'll try to come up with a resource for it.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Coracle
Tin and Zinc. Vital for alloys of copper.

Maybe gold should be a resource unlike what it is now.

Yes:

Tin for Bronze

Zinc for Brass

Willem: found and responded over on the other thread - nice, elegant idea, could build some pyramids of needs using this idea - good tool for complexity of modern mass culture stuff - fashions, trends, ect.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

Willem: found and responded over on the other thread - nice, elegant idea, could build some pyramids of needs using this idea - good tool for complexity of modern mass culture stuff - fashions, trends, ect.

Yes, interesting approach, regarding the mass culture idea! I hadn't thought about it along those lines. It would be especially interesting using concepts like that for Luxuries. The moods of your citizens could be quite fluid that way in modern times. I'll have to keep that in mind.

The evolution of this approach has been rather interesting. It started out with someone wanting an earthquake resource, and the idea keeps getting fed along the way.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera


So in game terms how do you find these, or do you start with them, and what do they do?

Of course!

I don't have to find them my automated workers will, if they're building a road network.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Willem


Yes, interesting approach, regarding the mass culture idea! I hadn't thought about it along those lines. It would be especially interesting using concepts like that for Luxuries. The moods of your citizens could be quite fluid that way in modern times. I'll have to keep that in mind.

The evolution of this approach has been rather interesting. It started out with someone wanting an earthquake resource, and the idea keeps getting fed along the way.

Was thinking some more about this: you could use this to emulate political trends, public opinion, ect. - what's PC for a society at the moment. We all know from experience that a civ in real life doesn't get to do "what's" best - like solar plants verses nuke ones or vice versa depending on your opinion - unless there's constituency and support for it. In Civ you get to do what you want without much interference - acting more like Stalin all the time - than "Mr. President". Europeans will put up with high taxes and will support subsidized railroads - Americans always want a tax break. Detroit labor sides with Bush on ANWR drilling, and so on.

Would work like real life on another level: Switzerland and Germany are small land mass democracies that behave/ can do things more cohesively than say the US which is huge and regionalized much more - this resource idea would mimic that I think a little. Big reason BTW why US has a hard time I think doing "Europe" solutions - many more powerful competing points of view. Of course Canada is more politically cohesive and big in land area , but has small population - fewer cities, less territory in civ terms maybe is the way to think it. Would think there'd be more of this for democracies - making them more messy - like they really are:

So here's some example resources plus and minus each other, so the game plays you as much as you play it:
*Environmentalism
*Social Democracy
*Unionism
*Conservatism
*Public Works

[dunk]

I wouldn't add anything but bonus resources since they aren't that important for gameplay.

In order to reflect what modern military units actually need, we would have to add bunches of resources.

Timber I think is somewhat dubious. True, all trees aren't suitable, but most will suffice. As far as gameplay, it isn't very necessary. Although a civ without forests probably shouldn't be able to build wooden ships, that occurance is pretty rare. Perhaps another way to do it would be to eliminate a forest tile within your empire after every X number of "wood requiring" units built. That way, you would have to replenish your forests or run out of wood.

I think you should be able to trade bonus resources. This could be like the caravans of old. Take a caravan full of cattle to another civ and get gold. Even to another one of your cities. The receiving city gets a "bonus" equal to the resource benefit for 10 turns or so and then disappears.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

So here's some example resources plus and minus each other, so the game plays you as much as you play it:
*Environmentalism
*Social Democracy
*Unionism
*Conservatism
*Public Works

Good ideas, but keep in mind that these are resources that the AI will put on it's bargaining table. Logically, I can't see it entering into a trade deal for these sorts of things. A few ideas I've come up with:

Consultant available with Corporation
Dot Com available with Computers
Virtuoso available with Music Theory
- (I'm thinking of something similar for Free Artistry, e.g. Picasso, but can't find a good name)
Pop Star available with Radio

BTW, my Minstrel unit works great, available with Artistry. A 0 unit with hidden nationality but no pillage/attack capablities. The AI can't destroy it, even the barbs have a hard time. I've seen both end up on the same square. Though it did finally get taken out by one of the barbs, so it's not indestructable. All it does is wander around, checking out the enemy's territory.

[Willem]

Originally posted by dunk
I wouldn't add anything but bonus resources since they aren't that important for gameplay.

In order to reflect what modern military units actually need, we would have to add bunches of resources.

Timber I think is somewhat dubious. True, all trees aren't suitable, but most will suffice. As far as gameplay, it isn't very necessary. Although a civ without forests probably shouldn't be able to build wooden ships, that occurance is pretty rare. Perhaps another way to do it would be to eliminate a forest tile within your empire after every X number of "wood requiring" units built. That way, you would have to replenish your forests or run out of wood.

I disagree, especially with your thoughts about Timber. There's not really that much wood that was suitable for the old sailing ships. First of all, it pretty much had to be Oak, which is not exactly the most common of trees, since nothing else was strong enough to take the pounding of an open ocean. And it had to be mature enough to provide large enough planks after being milled. There's a very good reason why the ancient Egyptians never became a serious naval power.

Personally I think Timber should have been a no-brainer when they were thinging of which resources to include.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Willem
Good ideas, but keep in mind that these are resources that the AI will put on it's bargaining table. Logically, I can't see it entering into a trade deal for these sorts of things.

BTW, my Minstrel unit works great, available with Artistry.

Agreed, they really shouldn't be tradable.
To bad some couldn't be made untradeable, like splitting appearance of strategic from bonus resources.
Was thinking also this could also become silly also if you got something you didn't like you'd be tempted to pillage your own square - maybe a unhappiness penalty for that.
Granted all this is Civ 4 territory.

Am to assume the earthquake idea is to get random events into the game - opens up a lot of ground for scenarios. GMT has a series of very interesting games covering all kinds of wars, various periods, driven by card plays of events, actions, ect - economics, politics - elegantly and simply incorporated.
A lot of fun and a great way to learn a subject. Best ones I've played cover WWI & French&Indian War. Seems like this could be the vehicle to do it with in civ.

What do some of your units do, like the minstrel for example?

On ships & wood - good article in a National Geographic several years ago on what they did to remake some of the Constitution - some big, heavy cross-section pieces in that. Makes me wonder where Spain got all her wood for her Armada, from her colonies no doubt.

[Coracle]

I was wondering if rock quarries could be considered in some way. I am talking about valuable stuff, such as the best marble for sculture or luxury building.

[Tuberski]

That seems like a good idea, of course it would simply become another luxury.

[reefer addict]

i added hemp to my game as a strategic resourse. anything that needs oil can be built with hemp oil at a 30% increase in cost. i would add cannabis as a luxury if i had a second pot leaf icon

[Hagbart]

This is all very good idea, I think I'll add timber and stone too.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

What do some of your units do, like the minstrel for example?

It doesn't really do anything, I can just send it into a civs territory and have a look around. It's a hidden nationality, 0 unit, and for some reason the AI is unable to kill these things. They'll even end up stacking on the same square. Even the barbs have a hard time, though one of them did kill my first one eventually. So it can't even pillage, that wouldn't be fair. I'm only using it for recon.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Tuberski
That seems like a good idea, of course it would simply become another luxury.

Not really, I'm using it as a construction material for some of my more affluent buildings, like the Cathedral and Forbidden Palace.

[candidgamera]

Originally posted by Coracle
I was wondering if rock quarries could be considered in some way. I am talking about valuable stuff, such as the best marble for sculture or luxury building.

maybe for specific, civ specific buildings/additional small wonders.
Ever play Pharoah? Ebony, ect. More important and would make it more interesting in the ancient, medieval period for civ.
Kind of like the way civ thinks about saltpeter now, less critical/important as time goes on.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Willem


I disagree, especially with your thoughts about Timber. There's not really that much wood that was suitable for the old sailing ships. First of all, it pretty much had to be Oak, which is not exactly the most common of trees, since nothing else was strong enough to take the pounding of an open ocean. And it had to be mature enough to provide large enough planks after being milled. There's a very good reason why the ancient Egyptians never became a serious naval power.

Personally I think Timber should have been a no-brainer when they were thinging of which resources to include.

Ok, I'll agree with you about the real-life implications of good timber. But think of the game. You would be relegating some civs to isolation simply because of no timber. That's my main point.

[candidgamera]

On the subject of resources in general and cutting them off, very much liked Trip's thread and thinking a little while ago - moving resources in the direction of "Rail Tycoon 2 without the trains", using the cargo crawler/transporter from SMAC as the trains, and letting it run in the background as auto moves and the cargo stuff visible. AI or player could then attack the automoving crawler normally or by the fortified zoc/air superiority method like now - all this works good for ships and air too (need a new air transport though) - maybe make that zoc bigger for them say 2-3 hexes for ships, air superiority transmuted to an new interdiction mission for planes - they'd go after anything. Escort land/sea/air gets setup when the route gets set up and of course waypoints like in RT2.

recognize that this is rediscussion of earlier threads, if stated another way. Like a political campaign vs. devs - stay on message and keep repeating the same thing over and over.

civ 2 to civ 3: took away the transport but gave us interesting things to transport.

Would like to think a game could walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

To bad some couldn't be made untradeable, like splitting appearance of strategic from bonus resources.

I figured out a way. Give it an appearance ratio of 10, and there should only be one of them. So we could have the Olympic Games luxury and the World Cup. Though treat the Olympic games one as winning the bid to host the game, so that you can have time to build the Olympic Stadium small wonder.

[Coracle]

ANOTHER RESOURCE:

Natural Gas is a very important energy source.

The use of pipelines for it, and oil, might also be helpful.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by dunk


Ok, I'll agree with you about the real-life implications of good timber. But think of the game. You would be relegating some civs to isolation simply because of no timber. That's my main point.

Timber had to be traded for or obtained if you were a major naval power. Britain, after decimating the forests in England and Scotland, began trading for it and buying it, be it in Scandinavia or Canada, or elsewhere.