ai hates me

MarBaS · August 21, 2002, 04:28

I dont play civ3 much at all anymore, but i have only played 1 game with the new patch. I quit in the middle of the game because the AI all teamed up against me early in the game. I wasnt really doing anything to anger them. Why do they pick on me? I was only playing on Warlord.

YC4B4U · August 21, 2002, 04:35

Because you are different - it is called aiism.

MarBaS · August 21, 2002, 04:41

But i just want peace and harmony, and butterflies. not war. this game is about civilizations not just a war game

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 04:44

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
I dont play civ3 much at all anymore, but i have only played 1 game with the new patch. I quit in the middle of the game because the AI all teamed up against me early in the game. I wasnt really doing anything to anger them. Why do they pick on me? I was only playing on Warlord.

probably because you were winning. Were you playing an expansionist civ (America perhaps?) I have found that if I play an expansionist civ then I find loads of goody huts to get a quick lead and then everyone declares war on me.

You can et out of this situation by trading good stuff with your neighbours and generally bribing one or two of them to team up with you.

DRoseDARs · August 21, 2002, 04:46

Fun when that happens, isn't it?

Sometimes, having a lot of culture makes the other civs jealous enough that they'll declare war. I've cultured-flipped a bunch of cities and that makes my neighbors rather irate. Having a wide tech lead will do it too. But the thing that really get's a game of "Dogpile on the Human Player" going are Mutual Protection Pacts. Civ B has one with Civ C, who has one with Civ E, who has one with Civs K and M. If Civ B decides to go to war with you (and I believe you have to counter-attack Civ B to get this chain going), it just goes downhill from there. That's what happened in World War I and, to some degree, WWII.

I've watched a few pretty spectacular multi-AI wars erupt in this fashion. I often play modded Pangeas (256x256...can you say: End-game Sllloooooooo.........) with 15 other civs. Although horridly slow and tedious, Modern wars on those kinds of maps are, IMHO, just fun to watch. Seven words: Inter-Continental Ballistic Missles and Tactical Nukes. The AIs can get really unpleasant with their breathren when they have those kinds of weapons.

NeoStar · August 21, 2002, 04:55

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
But i just want peace and harmony, and butterflies. not war. this game is about civilizations not just a war game

This maybe hard to do, but I find the best way to accomplish this is to tribute varoius things until they are on side (this is expensive and luxuries/tech help) and then pick out a common enemy ( a good one) and get them all to sign alliances with you against them.

The AI needs to express aggression and this way they will concentrate on one of their own. When that enemy dies, find another one. I don't like it too much, but it does work. You 'pull the strings'

Coracle · August 21, 2002, 04:56

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
But i just want peace and harmony, and butterflies. not war. this game is about civilizations not just a war game

No, the game is about Firaxis' FALSE and SPECIOUS ideas about "Culture", not about simulating history in the tradition of Civ 1 and Civ 2 - which is what we expected when we bought the game.

Civ 2 had it right.

And you bet other civs gang up on you. It's another form of annoying AI cheat. And that is in no way realistic.

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 05:01

Yes the AI will always mess up with the game even we thought Civ 3 would be better, no way. They always ally against the human and try to eradicate him I think the programmers thought this would add a little spice to the game when you have to fight for survival against 5 civs at the same time

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 06:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
Yes the AI will always mess up with the game even we thought Civ 3 would be better, no way. They always ally against the human and try to eradicate him I think the programmers thought this would add a little spice to the game when you have to fight for survival against 5 civs at the same time

No that is not entirely true:
(1) They tend to gang up on the most powerful civ.
(2) They tend to gang up on the most uncooperative/beligerant civ

that normally the player's civ. If you are behind and do a bit of trading then you can get them to ally with you.

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 06:40

Ahh that's the problem I'm too uncooperative

Might be because I never give them anything for free. Why should I as I did everything I own myself so why should I give it away for free. I prefer to go to war with the whole world before I give something away.

Fighter · August 21, 2002, 06:42

Calm down Coracle.

As a matter of fact I like Culture flipping. Historicaly speaking it happens, not too often but hey, it happens. Looking back at my own nations history, the Newfies almost flipped to the yanks back in the late 40's. The whole country was worried about Annexation for quite a while with many people trying to get us to go (William Lyon Mackenzie to name one)

Thankfuly we got over all that and managed to keap out of the US pocket, or atleast thats what Im going to keap telling myself.

also on the topic of culture flip, can you say Sudatenland?

But on to the actual topic, I find it funny when I refuse a demand from one country and the domino's fall into place, especialy when half of the ones that declare war on me arent even anywhere near me!

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 06:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
Ahh that's the problem I'm too uncooperative

Might be because I never give them anything for free. Why should I as I did everything I own myself so why should I give it away for free. I prefer to go to war with the whole world before I give something away.

well that's up to you. But don't you attack the AI civs without provocation? I know I do. Would you refrain from attacking a particular civ (and go against another one instead) if they gave you, say, silks for 20 turns for free? I know I would.

So equally an AI civ might attack you for "no reason". If you give them something, like a luxury that you aren't using for "free" then they won't bother attacking you anymore. In fact they might help you take on the Big Bad which, if you think about it for just a minute, will cost them MORE than those silks you gave them. In fact, in myh experience they will end up getting beaten by the Big Bad.

Panag · August 21, 2002, 07:00

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
I dont play civ3 much at all anymore, but i have only played 1 game with the new patch. I quit in the middle of the game because the AI all teamed up against me early in the game. I wasnt really doing anything to anger them. Why do they pick on me? I was only playing on Warlord.

hi ,

got a SAV(e) , somewhere , it could be of your actions , ..

have a nice day

Deathwalker · August 21, 2002, 07:04

When your doing well they gang up on you

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 07:10

Yeahh of course if they offer something to me I will be Mr. niceguy and attack somebody else. No I never attack somebody unprovoked: I attack them only when I need to defend my interests or want to expand and I think this are than justified reasons to attack somebody

Often I try to build up the largest army in the world and than play the role of a mercenary. The highest bidder gets my services. It's funny to see how they try to pull you to their side. With this tactic you can be very rich in no time. 1) you get the "reward" from your ally in defeating his enemy and 2) you get the conquered cities.

So long life militarism.

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 07:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
Yeahh of course if they offer something to me I will be Mr. niceguy and attack somebody else. No I never attack somebody unprovoked: I attack them only when I need to defend my interests or want to expand and I think this are than justified reasons to attack somebody

Arguably this is just what the AI is doing.

Quote:

Often I try to build up the largest army in the world and than play the role of a mercenary. The highest bidder gets my services. It's funny to see how they try to pull you to their side. With this tactic you can be very rich in no time. 1) you get the "reward" from your ally in defeating his enemy and 2) you get the conquered cities.

So long life militarism.

Again this could well be just what the AI is doing. And everyone accuses the AI of cheating when they give each other techs and then declare war on you...

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 07:20

But I'm the human the good one. I'm allowed to do it personally I find it very unfair if the AI copies my actions and tries to hit me with the same dirty tricks I play on them. The AI have to play by the rules.

miccofl · August 21, 2002, 07:56

Quote:

I find it very unfair if the AI copies my actions and tries to hit me with the same dirty tricks I play on them. The AI have to play by the rules.

If you were playing by the rules and the AI used those dirty tricks you used while playing by the rules; then wouldn't the AI be playing by the rules? Or were you cheating?

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 08:08

No I don't cheat it takes the whole fun out of the game. Well it's simple:

Two different sets of rules are existing:
I'm allowed to blackmail the AI and take everything I want from them because I have the power to do so (military advantage).

The AI on the other side it not allowed to strike back against me. All they are allowed to do is fight against each other, give me anything I want and when they fight against me they are obliged to loose. Should the AI did anything against my rules this is considered cheating in my opinion.

So to put it out shortly: I have a double-morale.

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
So to put it out shortly: I have a double-morale.

does that mean you are extra brave? or do you mean double-moral?

Ethelred · August 21, 2002, 08:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
Ahh that's the problem I'm too uncooperative

That will do it. They like you to trade with them as much as they do with each other. I don't think the AI is even aware that there is anything but other AI Civs.

Quote:

Might be because I never give them anything for free. Why should I as I did everything I own myself so why should I give it away for free. I prefer to go to war with the whole world before I give something away.

Well then you are likely to be at war a lot. If the AI demands something from you for free that means they think your are a wimp and an easy mark or both. Sometimes they are bluffing. Most of the time they aren't so if you if say NO you had better start building the troops that you didn't have. If you have enough troops they won't try extorting you.

Keep in mind though that the AI civs are trying to win the game. When there is no where else to exand they will choose a target to go to war with. Often they precede it with an extortion demand. If you pay they usually pick on someone else. Someone that didn't want to pay Danegeld.

Its fairly easy to get the whole world at war with YOUR choice of targets if you have the troops to convince them you are not a an easy mark.

Moonsinger · August 21, 2002, 08:50

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
But i just want peace and harmony, and butterflies. not war. this game is about civilizations not just a war game

LOL! Maybe they don't like the butterflies.

Stuie · August 21, 2002, 08:50

Quote:

Originally posted by MarBaS
I dont play civ3 much at all anymore, but i have only played 1 game with the new patch. I quit in the middle of the game because the AI all teamed up against me early in the game. I wasnt really doing anything to anger them. Why do they pick on me? I was only playing on Warlord.

A lot of times if you end up in a war with a strong civ, they will immediately negotiate alliances against you with everyone and anyone possible. To counter this, as soon as a war starts, YOU need to go to the civs bordering you and your enemy and get them on your side by any means necessary. Sometimes even one well placed ally will be enough to thwart your neighbor's agression.

For instance, in my current game I'm Greece, and Russia and France are to the north of me. When Russia got aggressive early on, I contacted the French, got an alliance against Russia, and forced the Russians into a two front war. When that occurs, it seems like the AI usually give priority to the AI attacker over the human.

Also, unless there is a compelling reason, don't bother kicking the AI out of your territory. Let them cross back and forth or even fight each other on your land if it's not hindering you in any way. I was able to reduce neighboring civs on both sides of my rather weak empire once by this means - they beat each other to a pulp on my territory and then I cleaned both of them up later.

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 08:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie

Also, unless there is a compelling reason, don't bother kicking the AI out of your territory. Let them cross back and forth or even fight each other on your land if it's not hindering you in any way. I was able to reduce neighboring civs on both sides of my rather weak empire once by this means - they beat each other to a pulp on my territory and then I cleaned both of them up later.

wow! This sounds like good advice! Telling them repeatedly to get out is really tiresome anyway.

So the message is: don't piss off the AI. Just wipe them out.

Stuie · August 21, 2002, 09:05

Yeah, I've had fun with the AI walking about on my land. One time a vastly superior Russia was crossing my territoy with an uber-stack to beat up on the relatively weak Romans. I managed to surround the uber-stack with eight units (I think I used some extra workers...), then let the Roman army cross my territory to bring it to the Russian homelands, whilst I remained "neutral" the entire time. Hindering the AI in this manner does not piss them off.

TacticalGrace · August 21, 2002, 09:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie
Yeah, I've had fun with the AI walking about on my land. One time a vastly superior Russia was crossing my territoy with an uber-stack to beat up on the relatively weak Romans. I managed to surround the uber-stack with eight units (I think I used some extra workers...), then let the Roman army cross my territory to bring it to the Russian homelands, whilst I remained "neutral" the entire time. Hindering the AI in this manner does not piss them off.

so presumably it would be possible to herd the a civ's troops into another civ's territory, thereby making them pissed off with each other.

I guess the pissed-offness wouldn't be enough to make it worth while though. Better to do what you did and bottle up a stack.

Arrian · August 21, 2002, 09:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Galvatron
No I don't cheat it takes the whole fun out of the game. Well it's simple:

Two different sets of rules are existing:
I'm allowed to blackmail the AI and take everything I want from them because I have the power to do so (military advantage).

The AI on the other side it not allowed to strike back against me. All they are allowed to do is fight against each other, give me anything I want and when they fight against me they are obliged to loose. Should the AI did anything against my rules this is considered cheating in my opinion.

So to put it out shortly: I have a double-morale.

Galvatron · August 21, 2002, 10:26

Quote:

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

does that mean you are extra brave? or do you mean double-moral?

Hmm interesting a single "e" can change the whole meaning. Perhaps I should watch out my spelling. But I came from Cybertron and there we spell moral with an “e” at the end.

Egyptian · August 21, 2002, 11:08

Stuie . . .

I've also used the tactic of letting other civ's units onto my terriroty and them surrounding them with my units so they can't move, or backing them into a corner with ocean on the other side. It's actually pretty funny to see them sitting there unable to do anything. In the early game I will sometimes take three warriors out to get in the way of oncoming settlers from other civs. Three warriors make a pretty good wall if they are moved correctly. The AI will keep trying to get around them, but won't get mad at you. But then sometimes I just kill the settlers, and am done with it.

Wormwood · August 21, 2002, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

No that is not entirely true:
(1) They tend to gang up on the most powerful civ.
(2) They tend to gang up on the most uncooperative/beligerant civ

that normally the player's civ. If you are behind and do a bit of trading then you can get them to ally with you.

I don't know... I was playing on Monarch, and had risen to 1. Now, I was chock full of luxuries, and had like a dozen trade agreements, so maybe that soothed them some, but nobody was declaring war on me. In fact, they all seemed to pick the weakest nation on the continent, gang up on him, destroy him, find the next one, and so on...It got to the point where I could always predict it and send a few observers. The thing I hated about Civ2, and which I don't see so much anymore, is all the AI ganging up on you the moment you passed a certain level of power. It was ridiculous. I could sometimes see the change te moment I built one more military unit. They would all get hostile, even allies, then, if I disbanded it, they'd all be friends again.