Your political views - Page 9

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak
I really must make this clear neither your age or your being a teenager make you inferior. Your debating style is often very aggressive, rude and not very mature. Ergo, you bring yourself down to a lower level than you probably deserve.

You must face one fact that I cannot even deny: My age probably makes a difference on the structure of my debate. I am a 18 year old who likes a tough debate.

Quote:

Oh, and I'm not a DL. I post at Counterglow mostly and don't tend to post in OT much here. Do a search - most of the time here I spend being a pest. I have no idea what makes me so serious in this thread but I hope there is some benefit from the effort - its quite tiring...

Fine... Fine....

Sorry, Odin... it is not like that in my eyes is any better. I don't like Socialists. Especially after what they did to my country... that one political party known as the PSOE. I really dislike them.

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by alofatti
Actually, both of these where conditions imposed by the IMF...
But anyway, I don´t want to antagonize with you.

Oh really?

They never said let the currency slide... they said devalue it and control this devaluation. That is what Cavallo could of done... but they got rid of him.

Thanks, Spartak... I am sorry but sometimes the fact that I am a 18 year old male sometimes influences my debating style... anyways I took you off my ignore list.

The Emperor Fabulous · August 25, 2002, 18:51

there are more fascists here than I'm comfortable with

alofatti · August 25, 2002, 18:55

"They never said let the currency slide... they said devalue it and control this devaluation. That is what Cavallo could of done... but they got rid of him. "

Good riddance!
And no, they said to devaluate and let the market decide the right price of the dollar.

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 18:59

Quote:

Originally posted by alofatti
Good riddance!

Why so? Because he had a plan?

Quote:

And no, they said to devaluate and let the market decide the right price of the dollar.

Not from what I know. Infact they said the devaluation had to be controlled. And first off the Duhalde adminstration did the entire devaluation incorrectly.

Also, there are other factors blocking any economic growth in this country and the IMF is not to be blamed for one single problem because most of these factors are caused by the incompetence of the politicans.

spartak · August 25, 2002, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
Thanks, Spartak... I am sorry but sometimes the fact that I am a 18 year old male sometimes influences my debating style... anyways I took you off my ignore list.

Thank you Fez. I appreciate your apology. In return I apologise for deliberately setting you off. I'm very impressed by the way you came back at the end - so what can I say - except - You won!

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 19:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak

Thank you Fez. I appreciate your apology. In return I apologise for deliberately setting you off. I'm very impressed by the way you came back at the end - so what can I say - except - You won!

Well it probably was my hormones that interfered with my debating...

It happens more often than I imagine...

spartak · August 25, 2002, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez

Well it probably was my hormones that interfered with my debating...

It happens more often than I imagine...

As long as you are putting your hormones to good effect it doesn't really matter.

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 19:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak

As long as you are putting your hormones to good effect it doesn't really matter.

Now you brought it up... my social life sucks.

Odin · August 25, 2002, 19:14

I think the crap down in argentina is a result from having the Peso "locked" on the value of the $, not to the Argentinian economy. The main reason I hate Bush is he will damage the enviroment (he is giving in the logging companies and using wildfires as an excuse, typical of the republicans

). And Fez, I was joking, I dont really kill consevatives, I just think that American consevitives are too nationalistic, helps Ariel Sharon kill innocent pallistinians, and they forget about the seperation of church and state, which I treasure.

PS: I admire Ghandi

alofatti · August 25, 2002, 19:23

Fez: "Why so? Because he had a plan? "
His plan was a complete crazyness. He was desperate because he was seeing his model crumble before his nose, everyone knew that, even those beurecrats of the IMF. The convertibility was an absurdity, and all his desperates maneuvers to stop the inevitable (the default) only promoted a continued recession.
Lots of economists are now arguing that the deficit in Argentina was mostly caused because it privatized its social security system (another IMF "suggestion") and of the external debt interests.

Fez: "Infact they said the devaluation had to be controlled. And first off the Duhalde adminstration did the entire devaluation incorrectly. "

The story was completely backward. At the beginning, the devaluation was (to a little extent) controlled, but then the IMF imposed, as a requirement for continuing the negotiations, to completely free up the dollar so it would stabilize in its market price.

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 19:38

Quote:

Originally posted by alofatti
Fez: "His plan was a complete crazyness. He was desperate because he was seeing his model crumble before his nose, everyone knew that, even those beurecrats of the IMF. The convertibility was an absurdity, and all his desperates maneuvers to stop the inevitable (the default) only promoted a continued recession.
Lots of economists are now arguing that the deficit in Argentina was mostly caused because it privatized its social security system (another IMF "suggestion") and of the external debt interests.

If the privatizations were carried out in the proper manner everything would of been better off in the end. Privatization was absolutey necessary. The convertibility actually worked for ten years... I would of just tweaked it like he was trying to do.

Quote:

The story was completely backward. At the beginning, the devaluation was (to a little extent) controlled, but then the IMF imposed, as a requirement for continuing the negotiations, to completely free up the dollar so it would stabilize in its market price.

No it didn't!

alofatti · August 25, 2002, 19:53

"If the privatizations were carried out in the proper manner everything would of been better off in the end. Privatization was absolutey necessary. The convertibility actually worked for ten years... I would of just tweaked it like he was trying to do. "

The convertibility was not a bad thing at the beginning. Thanks to it we were able to stabilize ourselves from the hyperinflation. BUT, it shouldn´t have endured more than three years. Because of the 1 US$ = 1 Arg $, our currency became extremely expensive and so we lost competitivity with foreign markets.
Privatization was not absolutely necessary, instead of state corruption now we have corporate corruption!

Fez:" No it didn't!"
Well, what can I say you... It was.

The corollary of all this is that I am willing to acknowledge some of the responsibilities of the crisis, the complicity of the local government was necessary for this rape.
The thing is that the IMF also has heavy responsibilities in this, and they know it, and now they are trying to defend themselves by criticizing the country.
I want to be optimistic and just say that they did this because they are incompetent and not because they really wanted to sink us (they do have reasons for this)...

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 20:11

Quote:

Originally posted by alofatti
The convertibility was not a bad thing at the beginning. Thanks to it we were able to stabilize ourselves from the hyperinflation. BUT, it shouldn´t have endured more than three years. Because of the 1 US$ = 1 Arg $, our currency became extremely expensive and so we lost competitivity with foreign markets.

That is why a devaluation of say 10-20% would of been necessary.

Quote:

Privatization was not absolutely necessary, instead of state corruption now we have corporate corruption!

Traditional leftist hot air. Privatization was necessary to curb the inefficient nature of state owned industries. But the privatization was done in wrong ways. Now Spanish companies are losing an arm and a leg because of the inefficiency of the government. Spanish companies are normally very efficiently runned unless they get screwed by some overbloated state.

Quote:

The corollary of all this is that I am willing to acknowledge some of the responsibilities of the crisis, the complicity of the local government was necessary for this rape.

Apparently through your talk you put all of the blame on the IMF and the US. I admit the IMF made one mistake and that was lending money to Argentina. It shouldn't of even gave a dime, if it knew that the money was going to end up in swiss bank accounts. That is a mistake. But Argentina's political system is faulty and pathetic.

Quote:

The thing is that the IMF also has heavy responsibilities in this, and they know it, and now they are trying to defend themselves by criticizing the country.

They have very few responsibilities in this at all. It is your pathetic government and political apparatus that should be entirely to blame. They threw away $140 billion dollars given to them. They didn't spend it right. You continue on with your hot air and ignore the facts. Argentina should of set up a adequate tax agency, an independent commission to prosecute corruption related charges, and a liquidity model based on that of Chile. Without that your country might aswell sell itself to investors because the economy will never grow again. Without neo-classicist reforms you will be marking your own grave.

Quote:

I want to be optimistic and just say that they did this because they are incompetent and not because they really wanted to sink us (they do have reasons for this)...

The political apparatus of your country is probably the biggest blame for all problems facing the country. Corruption, misusage of government money, graft... oh the list can go on and on... yet you continue to blame the IMF.

red_jon · August 25, 2002, 20:47

I've mapped everyone's scores from this thread. See my 'cut out and keep' thread.

Giancarlo · August 25, 2002, 20:51

I still can't believe I was the most right economically..... hmm.... it is strange...

Thank you redjon... how about a big hug?

alofatti · August 25, 2002, 22:05

Fez: "Traditional leftist hot air. Privatization was necessary to curb the inefficient nature of state owned industries."

Traditional rightist hot air.

Fez: "That is why a devaluation of say 10-20% would of been necessary. "

You speak with such an authority.Too bad that your presumed "god", the IMF, disagrees with you...

Fez:" They threw away $140 billion dollars given to them."

and to think that we have already pay them $ 200 billion dollars.

Fez:" Without neo-classicist reforms you will be marking your own grave. "

Thats all we did during the 90's!

alofatti · August 25, 2002, 22:09

and changing a little bit of discussion.
You have 18 years and you are in highschool, you are in a technical school, right? What is your specialization? Do you plan to further study in college and what (of course, I don´t think that you will ever consider studing here...)?

Dan Severn · August 25, 2002, 23:10

Quote:

Originally posted by red_jon
I've mapped everyone's scores from this thread. See my 'cut out and keep' thread.

Where am I? Where am I?

Are you prejudiced against me because I'm Texan?

DinoDoc · August 25, 2002, 23:12

Quote:

Originally posted by alofatti
Thats all we did during the 90's!

Sure.

red_jon · August 25, 2002, 23:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Severn

Where am I? Where am I?

Are you prejudiced against me because I'm Texan?

Sorry, I must have missed it - what was your score?

Skanky Burns · August 25, 2002, 23:17

And where am I btw?

DinoDoc · August 25, 2002, 23:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
And where am I btw?

You're to Skanky to care about.

loinburger · August 25, 2002, 23:23

We need a three dimensional political poll: Authoritarian/Libertarian, Left/Right, Rational Realist/Complete Nutcase Who Is Intellectually Incapable Of Providing Any Sort Of Rationale For His/Her Beliefs. Without the last part you never know what you're getting until it's too late.