Give us unsafe ocean travel

Optimizer · August 24, 2002, 06:30

As far as I know, the tech flags "Sea trade" and "Ocean trade" allow any ship of the concerned civ to safely cross seas and oceans. This feature should be removed in PTW or an Expansion pack.

First, one should be allowed to make later ships unworthy to cross the high seas. I would like Ironclads and Torpedo boats that beat the krapp out of all wooden ships but cannot cross oceans. It is also strange that ancient ships can cross any ocean just because they can navigate.

Bleyn · August 24, 2002, 07:56

I understand what you mean in some ways.

But I'm not sure I could see it working too well. What I mean is, technically, no it would not be hard for them to program it so that you have units that start out being restricted to the littorals, and only later gain the deeper waters with new techs such as caravels(for whom this was a realistic situation), and others that are always restricted to coasts or seas but not oceans.

The problem I see is in making it mod friendly. Suddenly its no longer a case of having a flag associated with a tech such as navigation that effectively says "ignore the sink in seas/ocean flag on all naval units". Now you are looking at a situation where you have to have some way of segregating the always sinkers from the conditional sinkers.

No, wait, I take that back. It is easier than I thought. Really what it would amount to is having two sets of flags. One that says "This ship will always risk sinking in X water terrain" and one that says "This ship will sink in X unless overriden by tech/wonders"

Hmmm... yes, that would be nice, for modding, if nothing else.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 10:57

hi ,

there should indeed be an option ; "sinks always in ocean" or sea , regardless of the tch you have , ....

an ironclad does not travel at the ocean , ...

and it would be great for scenarios and mods

just a small option to flag , ....please Firaxis , in a patch , ...

have a nice day

Caliban · August 25, 2002, 14:09

Hmhm... I remember pictures of german ironclads in Africa before World War I.
If they cannot travel across ocean, how did they get there? All the coastal seas in Northern Africa were controlled by England and France, so...

But, yes, a flag that lets you determine the terrain in which ships sink sounds interesting for mod-makers...

Panag · August 25, 2002, 14:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Caliban
Hmhm... I remember pictures of german ironclads in Africa before World War I.
If they cannot travel across ocean, how did they get there? All the coastal seas in Northern Africa were controlled by England and France, so...

But, yes, a flag that lets you determine the terrain in which ships sink sounds interesting for mod-makers...

hi ,

the Germans transported them with bigger civilian ships

the ones that they use in the lakes and rivers deep inside africa where transported over land and build local

the english did the same with their gunboats in africa , because they made them out of wood they where faster , and they could build more of them

there is one for display in Walvisbaai , ....on the coast

have a nice day

Caliban · August 25, 2002, 14:19

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

the Germans transported them with bigger civilian ships

the ones that they use in the lakes and rivers deep inside africa where transported over land and build local

the english did the same with their gunboats in africa , because they made them out of wood they where faster , and they could build more of them

there is one for display in Walvisbaai , ....on the coast

have a nice day

Interesting, thanks.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Caliban

Interesting, thanks.

hi ,

no problem , its actually something that is going to be part of a scenario - mod when PTW comes out

that part of history and place tends to be forgotten

so a good scenario shall hopefully give a small history lesson

have a nice day

statusperfect · August 25, 2002, 18:45

Quote:

no problem , its actually something that is going to be part of a scenario - mod when PTW comes out

panag> you have inside information on the scenarios shipped with PTW?

pleeeeeeez tell us!!!

Dragon's Lord · August 25, 2002, 18:53

how about letting older ships navigate up rivers like galleys and early sail look at the vikings they kicked much ass cause they could row inland and attack...

The_Aussie_Lurker · August 25, 2002, 18:59

A simple solution, in my mind, would be to give units such as ironclads a good movement rate, but then set ocean squares as having an "exhorbitant" movement cost! This could keep triremes and ironclads in coastal and sea squares, where they could patrol a large area, whilst allowing pre-battleship clippers, corvettes and frigates complete control of the oceans!! (Just by giving them equal movement, but the "all squares as roads" flag!)
Anyway, just a thought.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

Panag · August 26, 2002, 06:04

Quote:

Originally posted by statusperfect

panag> you have inside information on the scenarios shipped with PTW?

pleeeeeeez tell us!!!

hi ,

well there is going to be an "enhanced editor" , .....

as for the above post , read again , it is meant that some people shall make a scenario about ww1 , with a special deal on the overseas - africa part , .....

have a nice day

SpencerH · August 26, 2002, 09:35

Dont forget that once you have navigation/magnetism all ships can traverse oceans safely.

Amadan · August 26, 2002, 15:10

Quote:

Originally posted by SpencerH
Dont forget that once you have navigation/magnetism all ships can traverse oceans safely.

Which is the problem.
Some ships should be able to be flagged so that they are never able to traverse oceans (or seas) safely, regardless of the tech level obtained.

Panag · August 26, 2002, 17:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Amadan

Which is the problem.
Some ships should be able to be flagged so that they are never able to traverse oceans (or seas) safely, regardless of the tech level obtained.

hi ,

indeed , and its easy for them to write that option in the game , ....

there should be two extra ones concerning this "problem" , ...

one ; unit sinks at sea regardless of the technology or wonder

two , unit sinks at ocean regardless of the technology or wonder

now , the wonder could still be left open , .....

but then we should be able to fkag or unflag it at the wonder itself , ....

have a nice day

Firebird · August 26, 2002, 17:25

Hi Panag

You said "Some people are going to make a WW1-sce.".
I hope you join them, since you know quite some interesting bits.

Panag · August 26, 2002, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Firebird
Hi Panag

You said "Some people are going to make a WW1-sce.".
I hope you join them, since you know quite some interesting bits.

hi ,

thank you

that is the general idea , ....

since building a real good scenario or mod is nearly impossible to do when alone a couple people got there heads together n one for graphics , one for the map , one for history , .... etc , .....

BUT ,

the plans are in the fridge for now , ....

when PTW hits the shop with that more "enhanced editor" that should give us more options , then the plans shall be defrosted , .....

the idea is to make a complete WWI scenario , .....

including the US in Russia , the Germans in Africa , in short what really happend in the world between 1912-1920 , ....

there is one small problem , the maps are to small , so each front or part of the world shall have its own map , ....

it would help of course if Firaxis came with a bigger map , ....

have a nice day