WWII wonders

techumseh · August 25, 2002, 02:50

My WWII PBEM scenario, "Global War" is getting close to being ready for playtesting. It's set on a geographically accurate gigamap of the entire world. All seven civilizations will be playable: Soviet Union, Empire of Japan, Nazi Germany (including the Italian Empire), Republic of China, United States, British Empire, and the French Empire (including Dutch and Belgian Empires). Barbarians represent the neutral powers.

Can anyone help me with names for wonders? I need a couple of ideas in particular. First, a wonder (Adam Smith's Trading Co) in either London or Liverpool to represent imperial trade, particularly trade with India. Second, a wonder (Newton's College) in Tokyo or Osaka to represent the Japanese scientific research effort.

Thanks.

Jimmywax · August 25, 2002, 04:20

I am sorry but I would name adam smith's juxt the british empire and probably newton's the imperial navay academty or somethjing like that. I might heve a differnet opinikon tommorrow tough. I see I can't type for shite right now. It took me like four minutes just to type this right.

Pavlov · August 25, 2002, 04:37

How about naming Adam Smith's something like British merchant navy? Imperial trade?

Now, Newton's college could be, ehhh, Japanese war effort. I dunno.

our_man · August 25, 2002, 05:15

What about "Jewel of the Empire" for Adam Smith's? I'm afraid that's the best I could come up with; the problems with it being that if fails to reflect trade with other parts of the Empire and it might look out of place in Liverpool/London.

Case · August 25, 2002, 06:23

A good idea would be to put Adam Smith's Trading Co in a colonial city as this would give the British an incentive to defend the empire. How about making it the Suez Canal, or British India?

Mao · August 25, 2002, 08:49

Case has a good idea, in a lot of the scenarios I play if I'm like the Brit Empire and the AI takes India, a lot of the time I can just be like "OK, whatever, it didn't give me much trade or production, so screw it, I'll keep going with Australia." Give the Brit player incentive to defend his empire and make his wonders more vulnerable (another bonus

)

Dr. Nick · August 25, 2002, 13:27

You could put the Japanese wonder in Manchuria and call it 'Unit 731'. Macabre, I know, but true. And it would make Manchuria more valuable to the Japanese too.

H Tower · August 25, 2002, 13:41

how about the Imperial War College for Newton's

Heresson · August 25, 2002, 13:45

Auschwitz, Stutthoff, Treblinka...

Dr. Nick · August 25, 2002, 14:50

Except, Heresson, that the German camps were of more economic value than scientific, as was the case of the Japanese.

klesh · August 25, 2002, 15:32

I think the camps are best represented as a terrain special. This way they can be limited to a region, and the benefits can be set by the designer.

What about the Dutch East Indies, Surabaya specifically. This might be (or probably is) under the controll of the barbs rather than the Brits at the start, but either way it could provide for a nice bit of strategic importance in the area. Everyone needs that oil...

-FMK.

techumseh · August 25, 2002, 18:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Case
A good idea would be to put Adam Smith's Trading Co in a colonial city as this would give the British an incentive to defend the empire. How about making it the Suez Canal, or British India?

That's a good idea. I've been thinking about a way to turn wonders off and on. Perhaps it can go in London as planned, but if certain strategic cities are captured by another player (hell, it could be the French - this is PBEM!) the wonder is turned off.

Quote:

You could put the Japanese wonder in Manchuria and call it 'Unit 731'. Macabre, I know, but true. And it would make Manchuria more valuable to the Japanese too.

Interesting idea. I would like to put a wonder in Manchuria, though I'm hesitant about trying to represent war crimes in scenarios. Unit 731 conducted medical experiments and chemical and biological warfare experiments on Chinese civilians, killing thousands. Medical schools in Japan participated in the program, sending doctors to the unit. After the war, the US agreed not to prosecute those involved in exchange for their "scientific" data and an agreement that the data would be witheld from the Soviets. As a result, no war crimes trials were ever held, and Japan has yet to fully acknowledge these crimes or make restitution to China.

Quote:

What about the Dutch East Indies, Surabaya specifically. This might be (or probably is) under the controll of the barbs rather than the Brits at the start, but either way it could provide for a nice bit of strategic importance in the area. Everyone needs that oil...

Exactly. Oil is the major focus of the scenario. Money is tight, especially for Germany and Japan which have Fascist (Monarchy) governments. Control of specific oil cities brings in lots of money via events. The cities are Baghdad and Brunei (Brits), Baku (Soviet), Balikapan and Padang (French/Dutch), Dallas (US), and Bucharest and Caracas (Neutral). Bucharest quickly falls to the Germans and Caracas benefits the US as long as it remains under Neutral control. So that leaves Japan as the only power other than China without any oil. And 3 oil producing cities sitting, almost undefended, just to the south...

MagyarCrusader · August 25, 2002, 23:20

Quote:

but if certain strategic cities are captured by another player (hell, it could be the French - this is PBEM!)

Mao · August 25, 2002, 23:57

...just because the French can't fight doesn't mean...well...yeah...I got nothin...heh

And just out of curiousity because...well...me...will the communist Chinese be represented? You could make them barbarians or part of the Republic of China, and give them a sherman or two randomly (I think we gave the KMT Shermans right?).

techumseh · August 26, 2002, 01:10

Quote:

Originally posted by MagyarCrusader

OK, MJ. You're the French in the playtest!

Actually, by combining the Dutch and Belgian empires with the French, France should be kinda fun to play. Even if Paris falls to the Germans (pretty likely), the French still control over half of Africa, Indochina and the East Indies, as well as colonies in the Middle East, South America and the Pacific. They also have a large fleet, including 4 battleships (2 more under construction) , 2 battlecruisers and an aircraft carrier. While they'll need allies, it's very likely they will still be around at the end of the scenario.

Quote:

And just out of curiousity because...well...me...will the communist Chinese be represented? You could make them barbarians or part of the Republic of China, and give them a sherman or two randomly (I think we gave the KMT Shermans right?).

If the Chinese research "Shansi Incident", they also get Guerrilla Warfare, which represents the Common Front between the KMT and the Communists. If the British or Americans research "Burma Road" there is an economic benefit each turn to the Chinese player. Of course, if the Chinese lose Kunming or the Brits lose Mandalay, the benefit stops.

Thoddy · August 26, 2002, 02:57

Quote:

Originally posted by techumseh

That's a good idea. I've been thinking about a way to turn wonders off and on.

It should possible with tot I think.

give technology (wondertech, no,no- untradeable Tech) by event making wonder obsoelete if an enemy captures wondercity
take technology(wondertech) if wondercity is retaken by the english

Mao · August 26, 2002, 07:45

Wait...is this scenario for ToT? d'oh!

techumseh · August 26, 2002, 13:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoddy
It should possible with tot I think.

Shhh....! Don't mention ToT. There will be a rush for the exits!

Seriously. I think people should give this scenario a chance. I know many of you have ToT on your shelf, if not on your hard drives. It's very well suited to multiplayer scenarios and allows simple, very strategic events which are not otherwise possible.

I've tried to make the scenario from the ground up as a multiplayer scenario. As Case says, it's a lot easier (and simpler) than than designing with the AI in mind. The objective is to make all 7 civs both playable and fun. While it will take a special kind of person to want to play China

, I think I've come close. So dust off those old CD cases and reinstall your Test of Time!

Henrik · August 26, 2002, 13:55

I wish there was a ToT for mac

techumseh · August 26, 2002, 15:11

Sorry. So do I.

Michael7586 · August 26, 2002, 16:23

If anyone wants my copy of ToT or Civ3 for that matter, they can have it! Both games just sit on my bookself - collecting dust - both removed from my hard-drive shortly after being installed!

I should have understood what ToT was when I saw the pricetag at $19.95 Cdn!!! (but I couldn't resist the Civ label - at least I didn't waste much money on it)

Michael

St Leo · August 26, 2002, 16:46

Second, a wonder (Newton's College) in Tokyo or Osaka to represent the Japanese scientific research effort.

How 'bout "Meiji Restoration"?

MagyarCrusader · August 26, 2002, 18:52

Tech, if this scenario is ToT, you can count me in for a playtest. Even if I have to be a frog.

Heresson · August 26, 2002, 18:59

Don't You offend the forgs!

techumseh · August 26, 2002, 20:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Heresson
Don't You offend the forgs!

How can you offend a Forg?

Mao · August 26, 2002, 22:42

*makes fun of Forg's mother* nyah!

MagyarCrusader · August 26, 2002, 23:52

Your right Heresson. We shouldn't insult the frogs by calling them French.

techumseh · August 27, 2002, 00:01

Alright you two! Don't start that again, or I'll call a moderator.

Wait a minute.....

The Apologist · August 27, 2002, 00:29

Are you sure it's a good idea to be starting a World War II Scenario before Pearl Harbor & Barbarossa? Japan may be in for a spot of bother if they can't bushwhack the Yankee fleet, and I don't like the odds of presenting a decent Eastern Front dynamic.

techumseh · August 27, 2002, 01:38

Quote:

Originally posted by The Apologist
Are you sure it's a good idea to be starting a World War II Scenario before Pearl Harbor & Barbarossa? Japan may be in for a spot of bother if they can't bushwhack the Yankee fleet, and I don't like the odds of presenting a decent Eastern Front dynamic.

I think the reason a number of scenarios, incl. 2194 Days and several WWII Europe scenarios started at some point after the outbreak of war is that they were designed as one player games. The AI just can't handle a Pearl Harbour or a Barbarossa if everything isn't set up exactly right for it.

In a PBEM, everything is up to the human player. It's up to the Japanese player, for example, to find out where the US Pacific Fleet is, deceive the American player about his intentions and sneak up and attack. Or some other strategy. Or some other enemy, like attacking the Soviets in Siberia. The players make their own history.

I've tried to build in some real historical pressures, which may lead to approximate historical results. Germany and Japan temporarily have more and better military units. But they have a lower research rate and are short of money and food. Sitting around is not their best strategy.

Re: the bushwhacking of the American Fleet, I read an article somewhere that suggested that if Pearl Harbour had not occurred, the American defeat may have been WORSE. The theory is that if the Japanese had only attacked the Philippines, the American fleet would have sortied out into the Pacific to defend it. Somewhere it would have been intercepted by the Japanese carriers. The old and slow American battleships and the obsolete American carrier aircraft would have been no match for the Japanese planes, resulting in the TOTAL destruction of the American Pacific Fleet, carriers and all. I dunno if that's what would have happened, but it's an interesting speculation.