Thread Tools
Old August 25, 2002, 11:22   #1
trickey
Civilization III Democracy GameNever Ending StoriesRise of Nations MultiplayerPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Prince
 
trickey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
Posts: 740
An alliance with England.
hi folks, it looks like we are in a rough situatuion here with Germany and Persia declaring war against.

For an alliace vs. Germany, England wants our wm, 429 gold, and 2 gpt.

But i have just discovered a new possibility! It may be risky, but we could get a cheap ally.

If we offer England an alliace vs. Greece, they will give us an alliace vs. Germany for no extra charge. Greece is also at war with the Aztecs, so hopefully, they will not be able to devote many of their forces to attacking us.

England is next to Germany, and could be able to releive us of a German offensive. And maybe even take a city or two

The money we save, could be used to upgrade our forces, make a anotehr alliance.....ect.

I dont think Greece could pose much of a threat to us, as they have NO IRON.

I think this plan could save us ALOT of cash, and maybe alot more than that.

discuss!
trickey is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 11:36   #2
Shiber
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG2 Cake or Death?InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Emperor
 
Shiber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 5,474
That's a good plan IMHO. We have an easy-to-defend border with Greece and most of their forces are too busy up north fighting the Aztecs and the English.
PLUS, for an alliance vs Greece and Germany England is willing to give us 5 gold per turn!
__________________
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see,
Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
- Phantom of the Opera
Shiber is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 14:26   #3
Aggie
Civilization III PBEMPtWDG Glory of WarCivilization III Democracy GameC4DG SarantiumPtWDG2 TabemonoInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
Aggie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Of GOW's half of BOB
Posts: 1,847
I say no alliance. Yes it would be nice but I don't want to be comitted for 20 turns and I think it is 20 turns. Also we can handle this threat on our own without deep involvement in a MUCH MUCH worse war now going between greece and england and Aztec. That is one party I want to miss.
__________________
The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.
Aggie is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 15:38   #4
OPD
Civilization III Democracy GameC3CDG Blood Oath HordePtWDG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Mohammed Al-SahafInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
King
 
OPD's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 2,633
Maybe we should keep some money to buy peace from Germany/Persia in a few turns
__________________
Are we having fun yet?
OPD is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 15:41   #5
MJW
InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 MonkeyCiv4 InterSite DG: Apolyton Team
Prince
 
MJW's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MN,USA
Posts: 967
okay'
__________________
“...This means GCA won 7 battles against our units, had Horsemen retreat from 2 battles against NMs, and lost 0 battles.” --Jon Shafer 1st ISDG
If he did he's an idiot and deserved to die. But I doubt it. -- Theben on Whoha's attack in Society 8.
MJW is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 15:47   #6
Shiber
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG2 Cake or Death?InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Emperor
 
Shiber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 5,474
I don't think we'll have to pay Persia money for peace. They are not prepared for war at all. Furthermore, they have no iron so our swordsmen can defeat their archers with ease. Then we'll capture their settlers and make them into slaves. Finally, we'll station a swordsman one tile away from Sidon or Tyre and if they still won't surrender, we'll destroy those towns.
__________________
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see,
Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
- Phantom of the Opera
Shiber is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 15:55   #7
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
hi ,

, the english are normally not such great "friends" , .....

then again , why not , together with Greece , .....

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 15:57   #8
Duddha
Civilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Prince
 
Duddha's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:53
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 570
If England is already at war, how much are they going to devote to our war?
Duddha is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:03   #9
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
NO NO NO
No alliances, we should bloody Persia and Germany's nose a bit and they'll make peace. We need to spend some time building our infrastructure and production capabilites so that we can field and maintain a Military Force in the Middle Ages that is second to none.

We're living on borrowed time by neglecting these issues IMO.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:05   #10
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by Duddha
If England is already at war, how much are they going to devote to our war?
hi ,

, the AI devotes in most case next to nothing when on the side of the human player , when on the side of the AI , .......

and the english tend to devote next to nothing it comes to pacts , .....

still the exception confirms the rule , ....

and right now we could use all the help we can get , ...

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:12   #11
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
We don't need any help, Germany and Persia were suprised by this war as much as we were. THEY WERE BRIBED!

Sheesh, people, you see one warrior and think we have to have 20 swordsmen for defense are we've lost the game. Persia isn't going to do much attacking with the units inside our borders because each one is defending a settler. Munich's a sleeply little town that just woke up to a nightmare. All we do is show a little force and Persia and Germany will sign a peace agreement and go back to what they were doing.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:46   #12
Epistax
Civilization III Democracy Game
Prince
 
Epistax's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of Bananas
Posts: 998
All wars must be ended ASAP. Alliances wont help that. I believe that if we take the two cities I mentioned in my thread (sorry I don't remember their names) from france, we'll be right at the bargaining (er taking) table. Once we are at peace with france, their military alliances will crumble, and Persia and Germany will be pissed at the French, and confused as to why they are fighting us. It may be possible to end the war before we see any new aggression from the Persians and Germans, but I don't think so.

Yes-- take slaves! muhahahaha
Epistax is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:53   #13
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by Epistax
All wars must be ended ASAP. Alliances wont help that. I believe that if we take the two cities I mentioned in my thread (sorry I don't remember their names) from france, we'll be right at the bargaining (er taking) table. Once we are at peace with france, their military alliances will crumble, and Persia and Germany will be pissed at the French, and confused as to why they are fighting us. It may be possible to end the war before we see any new aggression from the Persians and Germans, but I don't think so.

Yes-- take slaves! muhahahaha
Finally, someone with the common sense to not panic. We ARE NOT in trouble.

America at war with Greece?

Okay, now they'd be in trouble.................

But like Darwin said about the canary that tries to use the cat's mouth as a place to get in from the rain.... those are the creatures that NEED to be taken out of the gene pool.

Last edited by GhengisFarb™; August 25, 2002 at 17:46.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 16:56   #14
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
I must agree with Farb and Epi: say no to alliences, since they only mean longer wars, and without the building bonus, we can't afford guns and Butter like the A.I. can.

France will surrender soon eneough- they were unprepared. Germany and Persia were both unprepared. For all the tlk of Persia, they are the weaker enemy as long as they lack iron, and they lack iron. If we take Sidon and threaten cities further inland, which we can with the forces we have now (we need to upgrade all our warriors NOW) then Persia will fold.

Germany is a maor threat since they do have rion, and have some huge cities that give them immense building capacities. We need to move troops to these areas and then prepare our counter attac, and at least take Hamburg.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 17:24   #15
wervdon
InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Prince
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 812
The only alliance id be interested in is greece vs. germany. We don't need (and dont want) help with france. We dont need help against persia unless they get their iron. A war with germany and greece could be good though, it further stretches greece out and thus keeps them from building culture more, and will distract germany. Also, it keeps greece from being bribed to attack us too, and really they are the only ones that worry me.

An alliance with england against persia is also a bad idea, I think its likely that elizabeth would win that due to her iron, and that would leave us a stronger enemy later.
wervdon is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 17:32   #16
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by wervdon
The only alliance id be interested in is greece vs. germany. We don't need (and dont want) help with france. We dont need help against persia unless they get their iron. A war with germany and greece could be good though, it further stretches greece out and thus keeps them from building culture more, and will distract germany. Also, it keeps greece from being bribed to attack us too, and really they are the only ones that worry me.

An alliance with england against persia is also a bad idea, I think its likely that elizabeth would win that due to her iron, and that would leave us a stronger enemy later.
I agree with your assessment, but I don't know that I'd be comfortable with Greek forces crossing through our area of influence on their way to Germania.

Also, I see Greece as the next most probable target as they have several cities in our beloved (why? I don't know it's hot, sweaty, and the animals really annoy me) jungle. I envision us eventually trying to consolidate the Grand Basin and that will bring us into conflict with the Greeks.

They are also our primary competition for the Valley of Smelly Things that America posesses.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 17:42   #17
Robber Baron
Prince
 
Robber Baron's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Commonwealth of Commonsense
Posts: 608
I too feel our situation is not serious enogh to warrant an entangling alliance with other civs. We don't want the Americans drawn into war, and I would expect only minimal help from the English. We should be able to finish off the French, and stave off the Persians, relatively easily. And very possible, weather the Germans, too.

Plus, we don't have an urgent need for more gold right now, as far as I can see. What is much more precious to us, at this stage, is the room to manuever freely in geopolitical and military terms.
__________________
aka, Unique Unit
Wielder of Weapons of Mass Distraction
Robber Baron is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 17:57   #18
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by Robber Baron
Plus, we don't have an urgent need for more gold right now, as far as I can see. What is much more precious to us, at this stage, is the room to manuever freely in geopolitical and military terms.
Fully agree, if we entagle into alliances we could eaisly escalate this into something bigger. We have the ability to end this quick and spend some time without being at war to improve our infrastruture. (Pacifist, nah, I just want to become more efficient at troop building and have a more effecient road system to transport our soldiers)

Personally, I'd want to avoid war until:

1)We get a more productive government like Monarchy or Republic.

2)Built up some cities with high production tiles like Ubergorsk and BHQ (think we should mine the mountain) so we can spit out our most advanced military units faster.

3)Possibly do something to improve our science research or happiness like markeplace/library.

Then we should go for Persia (carve our names on the Pyramids) or Greece (just cause they're there).

Personally, I like Persia. It would give us the Pyramids, secure our back, give us Spice and Incense, and we could place the Forbidden Palace down there.

Last edited by GhengisFarb™; August 25, 2002 at 20:46.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 19:00   #19
MrWhereItsAt
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayAlpha Centauri PBEMSpanish CiversCall to Power Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontPtWDG2 Latin LoversACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansC3CDG The Lost BoysCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
Deity
 
MrWhereItsAt's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: That's DR WhereItsAt...
Posts: 10,157
/me is dying to see the save so he can make his own judgements.....

__________________
Consul.

Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!
MrWhereItsAt is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 20:16   #20
Reddawg
Prince
 
Reddawg's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Oak Ridge, El Niño, Apolyton
Posts: 423
Warmongers!!!

we just cannot afford to open up more hostilities, at all. no alliances, i say.
Reddawg is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 20:50   #21
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Germany is a maor threat since they do have rion, and have some huge cities that give them immense building capacities. We need to move troops to these areas and then prepare our counter attac, and at least take Hamburg.
I agree I don't think we can win against Germany, that's why I call for a rapid assault and taking of Hamburg. Make it seem like we were prepared for the war and they'll agree to peace since they weren't.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 25, 2002, 22:00   #22
Apocalypse
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization III Democracy GameCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMMacInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization II MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Apocalypse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,253
Quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
1)We get a more productive government like Monarchy or Republic.
We can get Republic through a war with Germany.
__________________
"Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
"At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
"Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
"In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd
Apocalypse is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 06:16   #23
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
* MrWhereItsAt is dying to see the save so he can make his own judgements.....

hi ,

relax , it got lost with the tam-tam , ....

you can find it in the thread ; next term times and current report MIII , .....

enjoy and be prepared , ....


indeed we should switch to a republic , ...
it would be way more productive !

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 06:26   #24
Shiber
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG2 Cake or Death?InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Emperor
 
Shiber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 5,474
Of course we need Monarchy first. If we switch to Republic before we have built up our infrastructure and increased our population the high bonus won't be enough to justify the upkeep penalty and our economy would be ruined.
__________________
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see,
Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
- Phantom of the Opera
Shiber is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 08:11   #25
UnOrthOdOx
PtWDG2 TabemonoPtWDG Glory of WarApolyton Storywriters' GuildIron CiversApolytoners Hall of FameC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogCiv4 SP Democracy GamePolyCast TeamC4DG The Mercenary TeamC4WDG The Goonies
Emperor
 
UnOrthOdOx's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: As cuddly as a cactus, as charming as an eel.
Posts: 8,196
Quote:
Originally posted by panag


hi ,

relax , it got lost with the tam-tam , ....

you can find it in the thread ; next term times and current report MIII , .....

enjoy and be prepared , ....


indeed we should switch to a republic , ...
it would be way more productive !

have a nice day
He was meaning being able to get his computer back so he can load it up and have a look.
__________________
One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
You're wierd. - Krill

An UnOrthOdOx Hobby
UnOrthOdOx is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 08:18   #26
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


He was meaning being able to get his computer back so he can load it up and have a look.
hi ,



if we would start to get a university or two we could make him maybe a new one , ..... instead of the stone tablets he uses now , ....

so , a lot has been talked about now , should we get in an allaince with some or not , ....

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 09:51   #27
Treestumpx
Settler
 
Local Time: 02:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 14
I believe in following the plan laid out by Mr. Farb. Personally I believe, as he does, that Alliances will prohibit us from ending these wars ASAP. Granted, his plan revolves around blooding the noses of our enemies and asking them nicely if they would like to reconsider and in any game I have played, the AI never wants to talk to my embasies that fast - but it is a sound plan.

And I agree that we skip Munich and definately grab those settlers in our territory!
Treestumpx is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 17:04   #28
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by Treestumpx
I believe in following the plan laid out by Mr. Farb. Personally I believe, as he does, that Alliances will prohibit us from ending these wars ASAP. Granted, his plan revolves around blooding the noses of our enemies and asking them nicely if they would like to reconsider and in any game I have played, the AI never wants to talk to my embasies that fast - but it is a sound plan.

And I agree that we skip Munich and definately grab those settlers in our territory!
hi ,

, both the settlers and munich and last but not least berlin or so , ....

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 18:05   #29
Shiber
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG2 Cake or Death?InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Emperor
 
Shiber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 5,474
I doubt it we can take Berlin when most of our forces are still in France.
And don't forget: Berlin is a capital, AND it's a city (8 population) which gives the units defending it a 100% defensive bonus! A fortified spearman inside Berlin has 4.5 defense.
No, there's absolutely no way we can take Berlin in this war.
__________________
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see,
Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
- Phantom of the Opera
Shiber is offline  
Old August 26, 2002, 18:21   #30
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by Shiber
I doubt it we can take Berlin when most of our forces are still in France.
And don't forget: Berlin is a capital, AND it's a city (8 population) which gives the units defending it a 100% defensive bonus! A fortified spearman inside Berlin has 4.5 defense.
No, there's absolutely no way we can take Berlin in this war.
Fully agree, Hamburg and sign the Peace Treaty while we're still putting out the fire.............
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team