US to invade France!

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I'm not sure raw output of pig iron shows anything. By the late 1890's Britain and Germany were producing high quality steel.

Big countries have big rail networks.

The output shows nothing. The growth of output shows a lot.

Products year
(millions of roubles) 1877 1887 1892 1897

Textiles 297.7 464.2 581.6 946.3
Food products 17 37.9 47.9 95.7
Animal products 67.7 79.6 72.6 132.0
Wood 16.8 25.7 33.3 102.9
Cotton 12.7 21 25.5 45.5
Chemicals 10.5 21.5 35.3 59.6
Ceramics 20.4 29 32.3 82.6
Metal goods 89.3 112.6 162.3 310.6
Other goods 8.6 10.4 19.5 41

The average annual growth in production was (in millions of roubles):
1878-1887 1888-1892 1893-1897
26.1 41.6 161.2

The development of the extractive industries:
Product 1877 1887 1892 1897
Coal 110 277 424 684
Oil 13 167 299 478
Cast iron 23 36 64 113
Iron 16 22 29 30
Steel 3 14 31 74

References to Russian Prime minister Sergei Witte report on the state's Budget for 1900.

Between 1860 and 1890, annual coal production had grown about 1,200 percent to over 6.6 million tons, and iron and steel production had more than doubled to 2 million tons per year. The state budget had more than doubled. Between 1850 and 1900, Russia's population doubled and Russia's population growth rate from 1850 to 1910 was the fastest of all the major powers except for the United States.
Russia was the fastest growing economy in the world. Unfortunately WW1, Tsarist's internal policy which caused revolution and civil war, has stoped this growth.

[TheStinger]

Russians like being ordered about by men with moustaches

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Big posters telling people what to do, may work on russians not on us independant Brits

It was posted for Heresson

[TheStinger]

Being the fastest growing economy means bugger all.

Luxembourg could be the fastest growing economy, it doesn't mena it can outproduce Germany in Tanks

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
I always wondered why Serb likes this poster so much...

It helps to avoid lack of arguments.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Serb


It was posted for Heresson

Sorry I take back my comment on mustaches then

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Being the fastest growing economy means bugger all.

Luxembourg could be the fastest growing economy, it doesn't mena it can outproduce Germany in Tanks

Sure. Luxembourg doesn't cover 1/6 of the Earth surface with any needed natural resources and doesn't have 200 million population. If it will have such two things I'm 100% sure that it could out produced in Tanks not only Germany but anyone.

[TheStinger]

Yes, eventualy you would have caught up, my point is that you hadn't

[Dr Strangelove]

If measuring Pig Iron production is important to you then the US actually gained the number 2 spot as early as 1810.

In 1900 Russia's GNP was 5th in the world, behind the US, the British empire, the French empire and Germany.

While serfs were technically freed in the 19th century, it actually remained legal for a Russian employer to beat his employees until 1905. Even in the 20th century there were numerous instances of Russian employees being beaten to death.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If measuring Pig Iron production is important to you then the US actually gained the number 2 spot as early as 1810.

In 1900 Russia's GNP was 5th in the world, behind the US, the British empire, the French empire and Germany.

While serfs were technically freed in the 19th century, it actually remained legal for a Russian employer to beat his employees until 1905. Even in the 20th century there were numerous instances of Russian employees being beaten to death.

I love measuring pig iron

[Serb]

In 1900 Russia's GNP was 5th in the world, behind the US, the British empire, the French empire and Germany.

Really? What about 1913?

While serfs were technically freed in the 19th century, it actually remained legal for a Russian employer to beat his employees until 1905. Even in the 20th century there were numerous instances of Russian employees being beaten to death.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it caused the revolutions. But was it somehow different from afro-americans beaten to death, lynched, burned by white guys in USA in XX century. In times when such crimes were simply impossible in Evil empire, in SU.

Remind to me, in which year you have abolished the segregation? If you abolished it of course.

[Pekka]

Here we go Rangers here we go *clap clap* !

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Serb


Is it somehow different from GB and France policy of cajoling Hitler (such as Czechoslovakia f.e.) and pushing him in war vs. SU?

Because Stalin was a foul, who beleived that he tricked Hitler with this non-agression pact, and that he won some time for preparation to war with Hitler.

Beign an ignorant American, I'd say the difference would be that the British didn't raise the Union jack over Eastern Czechoslovakia. How did they push hitler into a war? If anything, they DELAYED THE WAR. Read Mein Kampf. The entire thing consists of hitler's desire to conquer Russia. The party's policy had been designed for a total war between russia and germany.

Stalin didn't think there would be a war for a while, if ever. That's why he blatantly ignored warnings that there were German armored divisions on his border.

Oh, and he might not have needed the time if he hadn't decided the armyw as plotting against him in 37. Notice how when the Japanese invaded and were smashed, it was by the siberian divisions, who were least purged?

He's right about turn of the century Russia, though. It was on its way up, but lost it all in the civil war.

[TheStinger]

When your economy is lagging it is very easy to have high growth, as in China now or Japan after the war.

The trick is to carry on growing when the economy has got over its initial backwardness.

Russia may have matched western europe and US through capatalist econmic methods, the truth is though they didn't and we will never know for certain if they would have

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Serb

Really? What about 1913?


Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it caused the revolutions. But was it somehow different from afro-americans beaten to death, lynched, burned by white guys in USA in XX century. In times when such crimes were simply impossible in Evil empire, in SU.

Remind to me, in which year you have abolished the segregation? If you abolished it of course.

When caught lynchers were subject to the law, but employers in Russia prior to 1905 were protected by law.

Funny how the minority groups in the good ol' Soviet Union abandoned ship when the opportunity arose. It would appear that you folks made them uncomfortable for some reason. Care to elaborate?

Should we mention the persecution of minorities in Imperial Russia? Many of them were actually fostered by the imperial goverment. I also seem to recall that the persecution of minorities was continued by the communists. Well, just because they were revolutionaries doesn't mean they couldn't honor the old traditions, does it?

Have you solved the Jewish problem yet?

Segregation? About half of my patients are black, how about yourself?

[Heresson]

Don't call Soviet Union by the name of Russia.
(just to enrage You, Serb) It's an offence to all other Soviet republicks...

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Serb

Really? What about 1913?


Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it caused the revolutions. But was it somehow different from afro-americans beaten to death, lynched, burned by white guys in USA in XX century. In times when such crimes were simply impossible in Evil empire, in SU.

Remind to me, in which year you have abolished the segregation? If you abolished it of course.

Hey, at least we aren't burning down the capital cities of *our* Minority-populated States....

[Serb]

WTF?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Grozny, for your elucidation, Serb.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Faeelin
Beign an ignorant American, I'd say the difference would be that the British didn't raise the Union jack over Eastern Czechoslovakia. How did they push hitler into a war? If anything, they DELAYED THE WAR. Read Mein Kampf. The entire thing consists of hitler's desire to conquer Russia. The party's policy had been designed for a total war between russia and germany.

I see no big difference between to "sell" Czechoslovakia like Brits done, and division of Poland. Stalin used fine opportunity to return lands which belonged to Soviet Union utill 1921.((just to enrage You, Heresson)
And I will never read a book writen by Hitler, as well as any Satanist's books.

Stalin didn't think there would be a war for a while, if ever. That's why he blatantly ignored warnings that there were German armored divisions on his border.

lol.
Stalin was absolutely sure that SU will fight with Nazi Germany. Some of historians beleive that he planed to attack first. That's why for example he ordered to made airfeild as closer to frontier as possible. He started the re-arming program of Red Army in 1939 and even drafted about million of soldiers covertly. He made preparations for war with Germany, but he need more time. And he beleive that he won needed time when he signed non-agression pact with Germany. He was a fool who beleive in his diplomatic gift, and who denied all warnings about incoming German invasion.He just can't faced his mistake and accept that he was wrong and that Hitler tricked him.

[MattHiggs]

CBeast!

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Serb

I see no big difference between to "sell" Czechoslovakia like Brits done, and division of Poland. Stalin used fine opportunity to return lands which belonged to Soviet Union utill 1921.((just to enrage You, Heresson)
And I will never read a book writen by Hitler, as well as any Satanist's books.

lol.
Stalin was absolutely sure that SU will fight with Nazi Germany. Some of historians beleive that he planed to attack first. That's why for example he ordered to made airfeild as closer to frontier as possible. He started the re-arming program of Red Army in 1939 and even drafted about million of soldiers covertly. He made preparations for war with Germany, but he need more time. And he beleive that he won needed time when he signed non-agression pact with Germany. He was a fool who beleive in his diplomatic gift, and who denied all warnings about incoming German invasion.He just can't faced his mistake and accept that he was wrong and that Hitler tricked him.

There is a huge difference between the two. Britain in 1938 couldn't do a damn thing about Czechoslovakia, we did let them down though and it is not britains most glorious moment. However the SU colluded with hitler to invade Poland how are they equivalent. Britain failed to help Czechoslovakia the SU did great harm to Poland

[Heresson]

Lwów, Grodno and Wilno didn't belong to SU legally until 1945

[Serb]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
When caught lynchers were subject to the law, but employers in Russia prior to 1905 were protected by law.

And how often they were found guilty by court?
And yes, I'm agree before 1905 and untill 1917 workers in Russia lived in terrible conditions. This is the only reason why Bolsheviks won the revolution and civil war. They were supported by majority of population, because they promised a better life.
BUT, you still didn't answered. What about segregation law? In which year it was abolished in states?

Funny how the minority groups in the good ol' Soviet Union abandoned ship when the opportunity arose. It would appear that you folks made them uncomfortable for some reason. Care to elaborate?

It's simple. After collapse of the SU we faced a terrible economic crisis. A lot of people leaved, sicking for better life. Those people leaved in countries with better life standarts. During few last years here comes reverse process. A lot of people who leaved in 1991, is return to Russia now.

Should we mention the persecution of minorities in Imperial Russia? Many of them were actually fostered by the imperial goverment. I also seem to recall that the persecution of minorities was continued by the communists. Well, just because they were revolutionaries doesn't mean they couldn't honor the old traditions, does it?

And thats why the equality of all races and all natinalities was one of the main slogans of their propaganda for a long period of time. USSR welcomed people of all races, while in USA, black people sufered and absolutely legaly had less rights then white guys by your laws.

Have you solved the Jewish problem yet?

The Jewish problem?

Segregation? About half of my patients are black,

What a progress. You should be proud.

how about yourself?

Me? I'm not black

[Serb]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Grozny, for your elucidation, Serb.

Oh, I see now. Thank you.
Then I can answer this.

Hey, at least we aren't burning down the capital cities of *our* Minority-populated States....

....because you exterminated *your* minorities long ago, when you just have started your existance as state. The remaining were put in reservations. If we used such policy toward our minorities, I guess we don't have any problems with them today. Our mistake , Hitler could be proud of your ways how to solve such problems.

And btw, you prefer to burn cities of independant states such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Yougoslavia, etc. And now you are planing to invade France. Nice job, keep up the good work.

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
There is a huge difference between the two. Britain in 1938 couldn't do a damn thing about Czechoslovakia, we did let them down though and it is not britains most glorious moment. However the SU colluded with hitler to invade Poland how are they equivalent. Britain failed to help Czechoslovakia the SU did great harm to Poland

Failed to help.
How nice.
To failed you should try. You didn't even a tried.

I'll describe 1939 in the same manner then:

USSR couldn't do a damn thing about Poland. Poland was doomed and had no single chance to won war with Germany. And Stalin decided to divide Poland to save at least half of it from horrors of nazi. He moved forces to protect territories which belonged to USSR untill 1921. And it saved a lot of Polish, Ukranians, Byelorussians, Russians and Jews who lived on those lands from extermination in nazi death camps.


P.S. Heresson, please don't. I wasn't serious.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Serb


Failed to help.
How nice.
To failed you should try. You didn't even a tried.

I'll describe 1939 in the same manner then:

USSR couldn't do a damn thing about Poland. Poland was doomed and had no single chance to won war with Germany. And Stalin decided to divide Poland to save at least half of it from horrors of nazi. He moved forces to protect territories which belonged to USSR untill 1921. And it saved a lot of Polish, Ukranians, Byelorussians, Russians and Jews who lived on those lands from extermination in nazi death camps.



P.S. Heresson, please don't. I wasn't serious.

Oh yes the poles look fondly on the time the SU came to protect them form the nazi's.

Stalin wouldn't cross the road to save his own grandmother.

Oh and you of course nobly stood by and watched the warswaw uprising get stamped on by the SS. Was that to protect them too.

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger


Oh yes the poles look fondly on the time the SU came to protect them form the nazi's.

Oh sure. They look fondly on everything which connected with Russians. Right Heresson?

Stalin wouldn't cross the road to save his own grandmother.

As well as Churchill.

Oh and you of course nobly stood by and watched the warswaw uprising get stamped on by the SS. Was that to protect them too.

So what?
You and yankees just seat and watch how Russians fought the war with nazi untill 1944. You weren't in hurry to help us with second front.

[TheStinger]

At least we never had a pact with them.

Churchill for all his faults did not believe in killing 20 million of his own people.

To say Stalin is the same as Churchill is ridiculous.

You are apparently the massive industrial country with a lare population i'm surprised it took you so long to defeat the germans.

Do you think there might be a reason the polish don't like russians, maybe its because Stalin was as bad as Hitler to them

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
At least we never had a pact with them.

But you've wanted. At least wanted them to attack Soviets instead of you.

Churchill for all his faults did not believe in killing 20 million of his own people.

Of course.

To say Stalin is the same as Churchill is ridiculous.

Sure it is. I just said that he wasn't in hurry to save someone utill there was no profit for him. The Soviet Union was the only country which send its troops to help Spainish in their war with fascists in 1936. You, French and USA just turned away and wistle.

You are apparently the massive industrial country with a lare population i'm surprised it took you so long to defeat the germans.

Thanks to Stalin's shine policy of purges in Red army and his stupidity, his silly beleif that he tricked Hitler with this pact. And btw, you don't trying to say that Nazi were a weak enemy, don't you?

Do you think there might be a reason the polish don't like russians, maybe its because Stalin was as bad as Hitler to them

It had MUCH older roots. They consider that we are children of Mongols.