Triple civil war!!!

[kcbob]

Talk about breath taking! Here's the set up.

The year is 2014, small world, and I as the Aztecs have the Chinese and Celts left to vanquish. The Celts have discovered Space Flight, built Apollo, and begun their spaceship. I, OTOH, have been busy building a beautiful ICS world whose cities are ready to spit out a most terrible war machine.

I make my way through the Celts (using spies to avoid ZsOC) and pull up alongside their capital with a bazillion vet howitzers. When the dust settles, the Celt empire is torn by civil war and the Sioux emerge.

But, lo, the new Celt capital is just down the road. I say to myself, "Why not?" and in the same turn, blow this new capital away. Surprise! Surprise! The Celt nation again is swept by civil war and the Carthaginians arise out of the ashes.

The new Celt capital is again moved just a whoop and a holler away. Third times the charm!! I go after it again (still on the same turn ) and, voila!!! Another civil war, this time the Germans popping up.

Needless to say, the Celts as a force to be reckoned with were no more. I totally eliminated them in 2015, the Germans in 2016, the Carthaginians in 2017, and have the rest in my sights now.

Whew!!!

What a game!!!

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Frodo lives!

[East Street Trader]

Heh, kcbob, I'm jealous of that one. Would love to have seen it.

You've probably seen the Tizzie's thread below discussing the conditions for inducing civil war. It is, I think, accepted that the target civ has to be bigger than your own (a carry over from Civ1) but I have seen various suggestions as to what bigger means - more cities - higher on the powergraph - whatever.

My own suspicion has always been that the condition hinges on population and I wonder if your game supports that? I'm not a sleazer, but I imagine that for all the large number of your cities the aggregate population won't be in the same league with that of a civ with some cities where the population runs to a good few millions. Population count goes up geometrically in cities I think.

If you saved the game (and it surely deserved to be saved!) I'd be interested to know whether on the last split the Celts had less cities than you by number, were lower than you on the powergraph but still had a bigger headcount of population?
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited December 15, 2000).]

[Bohlen]

Sounds like quite an impressive onslaught. How did you ever have the patience to keep building your army for that one attack? I would have gone crazy waiting that long! I just can’t help…but…pull…the...trigger…NOW!

I just don’t have that kind of patience. Kudos, kc, for a job well done.

[DrFell]

whats the smallest number of cities youve seen an ai civ have when its split?

[kcbob]

I didn't save at the appropriate time.

To the best of my recollection (and it's pretty good since the game is still going on), I not only had more cities then the Celts at the time of the first civil war, I had a larger total population at the time of the last civil war.

Hmmmm.

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Frodo lives!

[Lefty Scaevola]

. It appears from your experience that the size qualification for civil war is judged at the beginning of the palyer turn and continues in effect despite size reductions for each cicil war.

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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you

[Scouse Gits]

Good call Lefty - I would like to place a small wager on that being the case...



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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by DrFell on 12-15-2000 11:18 PM whats the smallest number of cities youve seen an ai civ have when its split?

The last of these three resulted in about 3 or 4 cities in the new civ.

And I agree with Lefty's theory.

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Frodo lives!

[Bohlen]

kc:

In my current game, I've caused 2 Celtic civil wars, although on different turns. I wasn't really going for splitting the civ, but as fate would have it the Celts were split after centuries of stalking by my very outdated units. The first split caused the Indians to pop up, the second caused the Japanese to be created. I was surprised after this second split as I didn't think the Celts were still the largest civ. Anyway, after the second civil war, the Celts had only 2 cities remaining. I didn't take notes due to excitement, but I'm pretty sure that only 2 cities remained. I'll have to check when I again have time to play.

I thought I knew the civil war formula, but am just downright confused now.

[Tizzy]

quote: Originally posted by Bohlen on 12-18-2000 11:27 AM I thought I knew the civil war formula, but am just downright confused now.

Me too!
That's why I keep asking about it - I thought I knew the rules, and now it seems they're not as I thought.

It would be good if I had time to do a proper study into it......

[East Street Trader]

I think they have to have a minimum of five cities including the (about to be lost) capital to split, giving the new civ two cities and leaving the original civ with two.

Incidentally, have you noticed how the AI seems to think that numbers alone count in defence. Except at the start I don't have the luck to find capitals with only one or two defenders but I do find them with just one worthwhile modern unit and half a dozen antiques which can be blown away with ease.
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Rufus T. Firefly]

quote: Originally posted by DrFell on 12-15-2000 11:18 PM whats the smallest number of cities youve seen an ai civ have when its split?

5, in the game I wrote about on Tizzy's thread. The English sacked Paris, leaving the French with Tours and the newly-emergent Japanese with 3 decidedly oddly named cities. This was the game where neither the sacking nor the sacked civ was the strongest by any measure. Curiouser and curiouser.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Albert B]

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 12-19-2000 07:31 AM This was the game where neither the sacking nor the sacked civ was the strongest by any measure. Curiouser and curiouser.

Nothing has ever been said that for a civ to have a civil war that it has to be the strongest... it only has to be larger than the civ that conquers their capital. The big debate is what 'larger' means. I had always assumed it to be # of cities or land area covered. Others have interpreted it to mean population. Other experiences of people make it sound like there could be a random factor to it.

Hopefully I will get a chance to do some research on this in the near future but I make no promises. My two year old helps to greatly limit my gaming time.

[This message has been edited by Albert B (edited December 19, 2000).]

This makes me wanna play civ and try this out. B'bye

[Smash]

AFAIK it is the powergraph leader that is vulnerable to splits.

Which makes me wonder kcbob.If you are still splitting ais at that date...er...well...um..how do I say this...

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 12-20-2000 05:04 PM AFAIK it is the powergraph leader that is vulnerable to splits. Which makes me wonder kcbob.If you are still splitting ais at that date...er...well...um..how do I say this...

LOL!

So what are you tryin' to say, huh??? Are you sayin' you've seen better Civ2 players??? Cause if you are sayin' that... you're probably right.

Although I will say this. I did conquer the world in 2019 so there.

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Frodo lives!