spearmen on the attack

Saint Marcus · August 28, 2002, 08:25

In my last game, an AI spearmen attacked my archer stack. I did not encounter this before (since the spearmen doesn't have the offense flag checked). Is this common?

Nym · August 28, 2002, 08:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
In my last game, an AI spearmen attacked my archer stack. I did not encounter this before (since the spearmen doesn't have the offense flag checked). Is this common?

AFAIR I only noticed AI spearmen attacking terrain improvements.

fittstim · August 28, 2002, 08:38

Well it's not common but it's not uncommon either. It just depends on being in the right situation at the right time.

A spearman attacks with a 1 and an archer defends with a 1. All things being equal it's a 50-50 situation.

cracker · August 28, 2002, 10:25

fittstim,

It's almost never a 50/50 situation when units are equal in the compared combat strengths.

Archer's defend at 1.10 or above. If they are fortified in any position they defend at 1.35 or above.

Against an attacking spearman and archer faces 52/48 odds and if he is fortified the odds increase to 58/42.

If there is a river between the two units the odds would be the same as if the archer were fortified unless the archer is bot fortified and behind a river, when number jumps to 62/38.

and if the archers are fortified on any hill the number would be at least 64/36.

alexman · August 28, 2002, 10:26

That's very interesting - I've never seen it happen, but I've heard rumors that the AI defensive units may attack if the odds are heavily in their favor.

Was your archer stack badly damaged? Are you using a mod?

Galvatron · August 28, 2002, 10:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Nym

AFAIR I only noticed AI spearmen attacking terrain improvements.

Ah yes the terrain improvements are very sneaky and dangerous I suggest we should attack them immediately before they can do something:
imagine all the horses on the board began to rampage across the map uahh !!help!!

Solver · August 28, 2002, 10:36

It might do the thing. If the AI feels the situation is right, it might, though it won't happen often.

WarpStorm · August 28, 2002, 10:41

An archer stack won't be fortified, what's the point? Either you are moving them to an attack position or attacking. Anything else is a waste. If I had a spare spearman or two in the city (I assume that the archer stack was planing on attacking the city) it might be worth it to use them to kill the archers as archers are weaker on defense than attack (although fortified spearmen waiting in the city have better odds - if you are willing to let them tear up your infrastructure)

Solver · August 28, 2002, 10:51

Or if you are waiting for some more to arrive, it's a good thing to fortify.

alexman · August 28, 2002, 11:08

There are many situations where it's worth it to attack when odds are not in our favor. But the question is not whether you or I would attack with spearmen.

The point is that the AI attacked with a unit flagged for defense. I have never seen that before. I thought such units are used exclusively for:
- Settler and offensive unit escort
- City and fortress defense
- Pillaging

A related question: has anyone ever seen the AI attack with musketmen (not musketeers). This is a defense-flagged unit, so even though it has an attack factor greater than 1, the AI should be using them in the same ways it uses spearmen.

Solver · August 28, 2002, 11:16

Nah Musketmen... I only saw them a few times altogether

.

narmox · August 28, 2002, 11:44

I've seen it a few times. In my latest game even... The germans attacked my ARMIES and my infantry and cavalry with wave after wave of Infantry! hehe.

alexman · August 28, 2002, 11:48

Infantry is different. Infantry has both the offense and defense flags for the AI. The only units with the defense flag without the offense flag (IIRC) are:
- Spearman
- Impi
- Hoplite
- Pikeman
- Musketman

Saint Marcus · August 28, 2002, 13:19

a lone spearmen, against a stack of 3 (unfortified) archers. Neither were in a city or fortress.

The spearmen died, the archer defending suffered a loss of 1 hp (out of 3).

narmox · August 28, 2002, 14:42

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Infantry is different. Infantry has both the offense and defense flags for the AI. The only units with the defense flag without the offense flag (IIRC) are:
- Spearman
- Impi
- Hoplite
- Pikeman
- Musketman

ahh, I wasn't aware Infatry had both flags.

Although I have seen spearmen attacking, but rarely

Cyclotron · August 28, 2002, 17:44

Well, it makes sense to attack with spearmen... or at least it could, depending on the situation of the computer player. If, for example, they have a mass of horsemen in reserve, it would be stupid... but if they want to counter your invasion of archers proactively, spearmen do the job against archers just as well as archers attacking spearmen (which isn't too outlandish, IMO).

Spaced Cowboy · August 28, 2002, 17:51

Does this count?

I had the AI attack my 1 hit point elite knight with a spearman.

alexman · August 28, 2002, 18:01

Yes, it counts!

I have never experienced it, but I have now heard at least four different people report such occurances, so I'm a believer.

So the conclusion is that the AI sometimes uses defensive units to attack. That's good IMHO, because it means that the human is not the only one to benefit from the extra attack strength of musketmen, for example.

Cyclotron · August 28, 2002, 18:02

RPM, depending on what units I had nearby and how many hp my spearman had, I might very well have done that too. I mean, the odds are against you, but you only need 1 damage...

Theseus · August 28, 2002, 18:13

I do it all the time in the early game... one or two damaged AI Warriors or Archers near my town?? No problem, here's a spear in your eye.

I believe I have seen the AI do it too, on redlined units.