First Build queue discussion thread

MrWhereItsAt · August 29, 2002, 06:32

I, your friendly neighbourhood Director of Base Production, may not be present for the first turnchat if it is sometime on Saturday Nth Hemisphere time, so I need to get a preliminary build queue sussed. It would be fantastic if the relevant Ministers all posted their wishes here, but I am hoping that even without them we can reach a consensus about the first build queue.

So, what is it to be? Scout/scout/garrison/former/colony pod or scout/former/garrison/colony pod or garrison/recycling tanks/colony pod/garrison or what?

Let's hear from the experts. All of you in the signup thread.

Kassiopeia · August 29, 2002, 06:39

Quote:

Scout/scout/garrison/former/colony pod

Not that it's really my business (no problems with drones expected in the horizon thus far), but I'd go with that.

Vlad Antlerkov · August 29, 2002, 06:58

Scout/garrison/Recycling Tanks/former/CP.

We don't have much cash, so rushing would be impractical.

Maniac · August 29, 2002, 07:20

Can only directors reply?

MrWhereItsAt · August 29, 2002, 07:24

Certainly not! All opinions are welcome, as they help Directors to make more Democratic decisions.

Maniac · August 29, 2002, 07:36

In that case, is the build queue now to be proposed just for the HQ base or for about all future found bases?

Anyway, for our first base I'd go for Garrison/Colony Pod. Predicting any further is too early IMHO. We don't know when we will discover Centauri Ecology for instance. If that will even be our first tech.

Archaic · August 29, 2002, 08:29

Assuming all future bases and depending on the underlying terrain....

(No 2 Nut tiles)
Former/Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Tanks/Commons

(2 Nut tiles)
Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Former/Tanks/Commons

That's all we'd probably have to be worried about early on.

FlameFlash · August 29, 2002, 09:08

Once we have the ability:

former/garrison/scout/CP/whatever

But in the first stages:

scout/garrison/CP/whatever

DeathByTheSword · August 29, 2002, 09:33

garrison/cp/scout or any other variation of this!?

lucky22 · August 29, 2002, 11:05

garrison/tanks/scout/cp

Maniac · August 29, 2002, 11:10

Man, there are too many variations on the same theme. My suggestion is that as soon as we have landed the Director organizes a poll simply with the question what will be our first build in our first base. Nothing more. Build queue polls are for when we have several bases IMHO.

- Groucho - · August 29, 2002, 11:23

Initial scout goes expolring and we build another. then former then cp.

Method · August 29, 2002, 11:23

first base:
CP/former/scout OR CP/SP

after that
former/cp/scout/SP
OR
former/cp/cp/scout/SP

this is from The Guide, so it's not a BS strategy!

i want to get ecology early. and i'm in a position to do that now

Zakharov VII · August 29, 2002, 11:57

Depending on the fungal situation near where we land, for our first base either...

Garrison (and quick scouting)/Colony Pod/Former (CE by then, thanks TKG

)/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Tanks/Commons (though maybe not, not sure what kind of a difference Thinker will make)/Secret Project

If the fungus is nice, we can skip the garrison and build the Colony Pod first...if we still need a few turns before CE, we can build it then.

If we don't have Formers by the first Colony Pod, we can build a scout. If we wouldn't be size 2 when Colony Pods finish (we should plan in advance, taking into account terraforming), we can build a scout then the Pod.

For other bases,
Former (unless rainy nearby)/Garrison/Pod/Pod/Pod/etc...eventually we may want a second SP base, so then we can do the Tanks and Commons (but we'd have to look at the numbers then, to determine whether building the Commons is better or worse than going straight to the SP and assigning a Doctor when needed. It's a fairly straight-forward calculation)

Usually my kind of exploration is just to send colony pods out (not really caring the kind of terrain nearby, though nice terrain is nice

), and use the garrison to explore the base radius and pop those pods. I'm sure many people don't agree with me, so I guess we'll have to build scouts (but what about Free Market?? I still say that independant is fine, of course it's great if we find a Rover but not worth holding back Free Market for our supported scouts to go run around)

Z

lucky22 · August 29, 2002, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
My suggestion is that as soon as we have landed the Director organizes a poll simply with the question what will be our first build in our first base. Nothing more.

Well said. This man speals sense, MWIA.

Method · August 29, 2002, 15:50

hey MWIA. if we get it started soon enough, we can have the WP finished by 2160, and the HGP finished by 2170. think about it.

Anodyne · August 29, 2002, 15:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
Assuming all future bases and depending on the underlying terrain....

(No 2 Nut tiles)
Former/Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Tanks/Commons

(2 Nut tiles)
Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Former/Tanks/Commons

That's all we'd probably have to be worried about early on.

I'd go with that

Main_Brain · August 29, 2002, 18:40

CEco within 16Turns I guess, so If possible I agree with CP,Scout/Former(depends on Surroundings),CP,Garnison

Zakharov VII · August 29, 2002, 19:10

Quote:

Originally posted by lucky22

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac

My suggestion is that as soon as we have landed the Director organizes a poll simply with the question what will be our first build in our first base. Nothing more.

Well said. This man speals sense, MWIA.

I disagree. We need to plan in advance, so that correct decisions can be made on hurrying. And we should definately be hurrying quite a bit, especially if we can get on Free Market.

Quote:

Originally posted by TKG

hey MWIA. if we get it started soon enough, we can have the WP finished by 2160, and the HGP finished by 2170. think about it.

I've never played on Thinker, but I can't imagine it being MUCH worse than Transcend. In that case, I advise that we be very careful with what we plan on. In a recent game of mine, Deirdre got the Weather Paradigm in 2130 (can't remember the exact years, but I know the decade), and some other project (Human Genome or Merchant Exchange) by 2150. This was Transcend, but Thinker won't be twice as slow, right?

Every once in a while (on my Transcend experience), the AI does really well (with its cheating, of course

). We have to be careful what we count on. Thus we should be flexible enough with our strategy, perhaps prepared to go green (not Green) with forests if the Weather Paradigm fails, taking the ME (I prefer it over HGP even on Transcend, even without crawlers. With the extra drone help (on Thinker) and crawlers allowed, we can get a killer energy base with ME + SC + ToE. Even if we miss the Paradigm, the sea is a good cheap crawler place, as well as Hybrid Forest forest), foresting, putting in Creches and Commons for a Tree Farm population boom.

Z

Method · August 29, 2002, 19:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
In a recent game of mine, Deirdre got the Weather Paradigm in 2130

she must have gotten some artifacts! i've never seen an AI get it that fast. and by "we can get a project by 2160" i mean we can get it in the 2150's.

Quote:

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
Every once in a while (on my Transcend experience), the AI does really well (with its cheating, of course

).

it gets an industry bonus right?

Quote:

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
We have to be careful what we count on. Thus we should be flexible enough with our strategy, perhaps prepared to go green (not Green) with forests if the Weather Paradigm fails, taking the ME (I prefer it over HGP even on Transcend, even without crawlers).

well, if we fail at the WP, switch it to HGP, and switch HGP to VW or command nexus. i NEVER take the ME. Why would you take ME over HGP? +1 energy/tile over +1 talent in EVERY base? are you nuts?

Zakharov VII · August 29, 2002, 20:29

Nuts? I much prefer Energy...sorry, I had to say that

.

She probably did get some artifacts, but the AI does have a huge production bonus (equivilent to +3 or +4 on the SE scale) on Transcend. It's 1-2 less on Thinker, IIRC.

The ME is quite an investment, considering how when I run Free Market with forests, it doesn't make a difference until Environmental Economics when the Energy cap is lifted! However, it gives either +50% or +33% bonus to all energy production at the base (depending on whether I'm on Planned or Free Market), and with all the facilities and those nice tech secret projects, it's quite a powerful base (especially if we build lots of crawlers to feed it hundreds of energy).

If I can get two early SPs, I like ME and VW, and if I can snatch a third I get HGP. VW saves some maintenence and some build time, both good. HGP gives only 1 extra Talent. It's nice with small bases, but with larger ones, 10% Psych with all the +% Psych facilities (Hologram Theater, Tree Farm, Research Hospital, Hybrid Forest, and more later on) is plenty to get large ones (size 18 if we can get Ascetic Virties

) stable. The 10% Psych would be necessary anyways even with HGP, as only a -5 to drones and a +6 talent (PK+HGP) won't nearly cover such a base.

Early on, I keep bases size 2 or less. They just keep churning out Colony Pods, so they never get larger. The SP building bases get a Recreation Commons which takes them to size 5, IIRC (thanks to another PK Talent at 4), and later as expansion ends all bases get Tanks, Commons, and Creches. Nodes are put in (assuming VW), Tree Farms are put in, then I switch to Planned to bring them up high (with a +10% or +20% put in when needed). HGP's one extra talent never seems like a big deal to me (I do play PK a lot, so I rely on the inherent extra Talents. Even with University I don't do much different, putting Psych one notch higher).

Z

MrWhereItsAt · August 29, 2002, 21:04

I think I need to actually put that poster up! I don't often use abbreviations, so it will take me alittle time to get into them.

Some good discussion going here, the Ministers need to make it clear what their priorities are too. Although ther is clearly little in the way of a consensus (I will come back later and see if I can work one out), what is becoming obvious to me is that most support formers as soon as we have the tech, and that a garrison at the start is not necessarily the best option. Keep it up, I will do my best to put some ideas together later on!

Method · August 29, 2002, 21:45

don't worry about me... i doubt we'll even get the tech for network nodes in the 1st term, let along have to build any.

what we need is:

formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers

and the odd colony pod, here or there

Voltaire · August 30, 2002, 02:50

Scout/Scout/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod

GeneralTacticus · August 30, 2002, 03:34

I'd ask for a garrison then a scout (not including our free scout patrol), after that it's not really relevant for my Directorate.

Lemmy · August 30, 2002, 04:44

scout or/and garrison first, and then tanks/cp or former.
Since Mobility will probably not be the first tech we research, i would like to have as much scout units early on as possible to make up for the loss in speed.

Gnool · August 30, 2002, 06:26

I think garrison/scout/CP/CP/CP/CP/CP/CP is a nice plan

MrWhereItsAt · August 30, 2002, 22:45

Well this is going to be VERY difficult, but here is a first draft type queue

Scout/CP/garrison/formers

Formers will be built as soon as tech allows after the first CP. This takes us a fair few turns into the game, and beyond then it may be necessary to know more about our environs before planning any further.

My justification: A Scout is needed for early pod-popping and to find us some base sites. Colony Pod as the more bases the earlier the better (DUH) and this would also mean we could start to build things that take a bit longer, like Recyc Tanks, without stopping expansion dead. Garrison, whcih we will need sooner rather than later, and some are desperate for formers, thus we will go for one as soon as we are able to after the CP.

Well, let's hear a bit of discussion on this now. Keep in mind we want a queue soon, so try to make some acceptable compromises.

GeneralTacticus · August 31, 2002, 00:59

Are you sure we should build a CP before a garrison? If we get a poor start we could be waiting for a long time, and we would be screwed if a mindworm popped out of the fungus ate us all for lunch.

AdamTG02 · August 31, 2002, 00:59

Seems balanced, and I do agree that the first priority at the start should be to explore and expand. The only suggestion I would make is that if nutrient production is skimpy in the first base (no square above one) that the colony pod (which would disband the base anyway if produced too early) be switched with the formers (which can improve squares, allowing the base to grow that quickly in the future.)

Edit: GT has a point; maybe garrison should be earlier. I'm thinking that for the first base, mindworms are unlikely to attack us. I definitely support early garrisons for later bases, though.