The Network Node

[Method]

The Network Node

This is the network node, where you come to discuss our faction's research. be it a suggestion for research goal, demand of more labs facilities, or a comment about energy allocation or SE, this is the place to say it!

[FlameFlash]

Trancend now!

[Method]

*looks at his watch*

i'd say we're looking at 250-300 years.

seriously though, there's no need to spam here...do that in the rec commons.

[FlameFlash]

My apologies, but that is what I would like to see... us going higher than our limited fleshy forms...

Anyway, I haven't heard anything much about what was going to happen now that we've gotten our science director in place. TKG, what are the plans?

[Method]

well, i've already ordered a team of researchers to study Biogenetics, and they tell me they should reach a major breakthrough by the time we arrive at Chiron.

As for research after planetfall, you can expect a poll shortly, but if it were up to me, i'd take centauri ecology, and social psych (in that order) as the first techs to be researched.

[Kassiopeia]

Centauri Ecology is paramount. As soon as we can get Formers out there the better. Not to mention we need all the headstart we need for the Weather Paradigm.

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Start with Centauri Ecology, then beeline to Secrets of the Human Brain (gives Fundy and Trance, stepping stone to CentEmpathy for Green and worms, and a free advance if we're the first there).

From there, it depends on our situation.

[Method]

well, voltaire ran several tests (or was it zakharov 7?) and we really dont stand much of a chance to get secrets first if we take ecology as our first tech.

[Anodyne]

It seems to be leading the poll, though...

[FlameFlash]

Actually, I believe it was Adam that ran the tests...

[Method]

Originally posted by Ade
It seems to be leading the poll, though...

errr, Secrets of the human brain is not in the poll

[Maniac]

CE is.

[AdamTG02]

As I recall, a few of us ran tests. I can't speak for the others because I don't recall clearly, but the thread should still be in the archives if anyone wants to look.

For my part I took Doctrine: Mobility for quick pod-popping first, passing up Social Psych. The next two tech choices, Social Psych wasn't even an option. After researching two other technologies, I finally was able to start on Social Psych... only to have another faction reach the Secrets a few turns later.

The second trial I ran, using the same conditions, I chose Social Psych the first chance I got. The next tech menu did not list secrets, but the third one did, and I got it before anyone else.

Two tests is a slim sample, so I'd recommend looking up Voltaire's tests, or running your own, if you want to make generalizations.

On a more RP-ish note:
FlameFlash, the ability to transcend our physical forms may seem far away, but several scientific analysts believe that unlocking the Secrets of the Human Brain underlying consciousness might only be a few decades away. If we can understand the workings of the mind, transcendence cannot be far away.

(Mm, several fringe religious authors have claimed that transcending our physical forms is imminent, too, but I won't count them.)

[Zakharov VII]

Heh, I didn't do any Secrets tests, I just pointed out that it was definately not a sure thing...

Centauri Ecology definately should be our first tech (so far over 80% of the voters agree). From there I push strongly for a goal of Industrial Economics so that we can go Free Market right away. On Thinker with the Peacekeepers especially, there's no reason not to in the early game. The money (what is it, 32 energy credits on Thinker?) will be easily paid back by Free Market's benefits, and even size 3 bases are stable. Hopefully if others support me on this, our Director of Social Engineering will be pressured to go Free Market, which was the clear and wise goal of the "runner-up" Archaic. It is my experience that income nearly doubles and turns per tech nearly halves upon switching to Free Market.

C'mon, Secrets supporters, give me your reasons for that beeline, and hopefully I can convince you that a strong Economic system is more critical than anything else early on.

Z

[Main_Brain]

Mhh CE-Social Psych-SoHB
is One Option but we need to consider:
SP-SoHB which will assure Secrets..
and build even more CPs&Scouts instead of Formers..

[Method]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
and build even more CPs&Scouts instead of Formers..

what are you, crazy?

[Zakharov VII]

So I'm nuts and he's crazy

Along the lines of DE's request, TKG, will you create a "Network Node: First Beeline" thread?

Z

[Voltaire]

Wow, I’ve been away for a while and things have certainly moved along here quickly… hmm, how to business… first a well due congratulations to TKG for winning the election for Director of Science (I’m certain you’ll do a great job, afterall we agree on almost everything ).

As for SotHB, I ran several tests on it as well, and our chances of getting it if we do not go for Social Psych first are well pretty much nil; that and we have to wait and see where we land first since our starting position also played a large role in determining whether we receive secrets first. Though from the looks of it the majority wants CE first and I strongly doubt that we will in that case decide to go for Social Psych in stead of CE.

[Haon]

I think we hsould move as quickly as possible to get Secrect of the human Brain, aside from the University we have the best chance and should take advantage of it.

[Anodyne]

Originally posted by TKG
errr, Secrets of the human brain is not in the poll

Hmm... must have been drinking something. Or my brain was just reaching the astral level

[AdamTG02]

I ran 3 simulations, in all three selecting Centauri Ecology as the first tech to get. In two of these, I was unsuccessful at getting Secrets first, but in one I was able to pull it off.

In each of my first two simulations, the second tech menu did not list Social Psych as a choice. The third one did, both times, but University researched Secrets before I had completed Psych 101.

Being a little stubborn, I started a third game to clinch the matter. And I made sure to build my second base as early as possible, and luckily my free CP was not annihilated by mind worms, as it had been in my first trial. (Yes, I got a free CP all three times on Thinker -- don't really know if that's normal or not, since I mostly play Talent or Librarian.)

Through the SE report, I discovered that raising the research rate would be pointless, because of penalties associated with -1 Efficiency. So the tech-rush strategy I have used so productively as Gaians was a non-starter. Nevertheless, I began exploring and building, lucking out and getting free recycling tanks in my second base from a pod.

Like before, I was not able to research Social Psych as my second tech choice. I chose Mobility instead for fast scouts, and the investment paid off when my rover corps got Info Networks from a pod. Due to exploring a large section of the map, I was able to expand into 4 bases, one in the Uranium Flats.

By this time, I had already started researching Social Psych as my third tech. This time, University did not come upon the Secrets in mid-research. After Psych, Secrets was not available, so I went with Ethical Calculus.

At this point, I had hardly made every right decision for quick research. I'd opted for Mobility rather than Info Networks, and then built a rover fleet rather than formers. Still, I was able to research Ethical Calc, and the University had still not stumbled upon the mechanisms of self-awareness. I immediately started researching Secrets, then changed to Democracy and upped my research rate to 70% -- which now improved the research rate due to efficiency gains.
With the way things were going, I might have come out with the Secrets high and dry in 13 turns. As it turned ouit, though, I only had to wait 2 turns -- until the completion of my second Network Node, which gave me the Secrets I had been waiting for.

None of this proves it's easy or likely to get Secrets of the Human Brain first -- it took a significant deal of luck. But it is possible, and I'd like to push for it as we make later tech decisions, even if it is a gamble. With Secrets first, and Information Networks on the side (either through pod popping or "second priority" researching) we can leap ahead of the technological competition. Switch to Democracy/Planned and we can have any SP we want.

Just my two cents.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by AdamTG02 Switch to Democracy/Planned and we can have any SP we want.

Demo/Planned isn't viable until we've reached critical mass. The loss of free minerals from the -2 Support is too great a hit at that stage.

[Lemmy]

and pod-popping will be difficult without the rovers

[moomin]

Why? Aren't we playing pods off?

[Method]

no

well, people, use the info Adam has provided when you vote on whether or not to take the secrets.

[DeathByTheSword]

TKG = second tech? which one?

[Method]

social psych....but have some independant thought!

[Maniac]

Great! That's what I voted as well! Since we started near a rocky mineral square I presumed we would make our HQ already our first SP base instead of using that base to pump out CPs as I usually do, thus a rec commons comes handy then.

[DeathByTheSword]

i hate the tech tree from SMAC sorry i know the civtree but not the smac tree

[Maniac]

Don't tell me you like Civ3!