Most idiotic assertion of conservatives.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Fez


Your antics are not appreciated on this forum. So you can say none less than "I am wrong". I don't need to support my opinions because they are just opinions. However revolting they may they are my beliefs and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ethel, be quiet your cyncism is not appreciated here.

See I was right. All you can do is:

T'isn't

T'is

Shutup

I don't like what you say so shut up

I am a twerp so leave me alone


Try learning how the debate someday Fez. This crap you are engaging in is a sad exihibition of preadolescent behaviour.

[Capt Dizle]

My cyncism is not appreciated here either, Ethel.

[MrFun]

Um -- I'm having trouble keeping up with my own thread.

Chris62, you're right -- I should have made this a multi-voting poll, AND added another one:

The only legitimate form of social welfare, is corporate welfare.

But really, this thread was never meant to be taken seriously. But one of the things about Apolyton is that a joke troll thread will unleash numerous serious debates.

Oh well -- it's all part of the fun, no matter how bloddy it gets.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
My cyncism is not appreciated here either, Ethel.

I don't think Fez quite gets what I am trying to do. I am trying to convince him to change his behavior much more than anything else. I am trying to be funny at the same time. I am not even trying to change his oppinion in those remarks. Just his method of expression. Changing his oppinion is kind of difficult when its so hard to get an idea of what it is he actually thinks.

Of course he could just be trolling but I think he isn't. He is too consistent in this.

[Giancarlo]

Ethel, I speak frankly and directly.

Open up a new thread just to ask me what I believe because I won't hestiate to tell you.

I will again answer the question of this more directly: Idiotic assertions of conservatives?

Like what? That we support maintain the economy without improper government interference and arbitrary laws like the Kyoto protocol? The fact that we despise the leftists who want to slam the lower, upper and middle classes with hefty taxes? The fact that we support the NRA? The fact that we are against abortion? The fact that we are in favor of the death penalty? I don't see anything idiotic there besides opinions. Those are opinions and I will try my damn hardest to respect other opinions. The past few months of my life have been tough and unreasonable... maybe I am a bitter person. Maybe I will be another paranoid Nixon type if I enter politics. Maybe I should try to change that.

[Sava]

I don't know enough of the Kyoto protocol to have an opinion on it either way. I just know that Bush is an oil man and doesn't give a crap about the environment.

Fezy Fez fez... very few leftists want to slam the classes with taxes. We just want the taxes to be spent wisely. The number one problem I have with government is that it is a big waste. Look at the "war on terror". During the hay-day of the Afghan campaign, the US was pissing away a billion dollars a day. And what has been accomplisheD? Nothing!

For a billion dollars a day, you could have built massive irrigation networks and a strong agricultural infrastructure in every third world country. If the US suddenly began HELPING people instead of dropping bombs, don't you think there would be less people that hate the US?

We "lefties", in general, don't want to pay any more taxes. We just are against giving billions in tax cuts to the upper 1%, and we are against the avid waste of money that is rampant in the United States of America.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava
I just know that Bush is an oil man and doesn't give a crap about the environment.

My dad was working in one of the largest oil companies... if you say that to him he will immediately claim the opposite.

Look at the "war on terror". During the hay-day of the Afghan campaign, the US was pissing away a billion dollars a day. And what has been accomplisheD? Nothing!

It has accomplished the stabilization of that country, the installation of a new government, the disposal of the Taliban. You cannot deny this. THEY EVEN ARE GOING TO HAVE ELECTIONS IN TWO OR THREE YEARS!

For a billion dollars a day, you could have built massive irrigation networks and a strong agricultural infrastructure in every third world country. If the US suddenly began HELPING people instead of dropping bombs, don't you think there would be less people that hate the US?

Did I ever say otherwise? I love the way Israel has done its irrigation and conservation networks... drip technology, treat and clean waste water for crops. They have turned a ugly piece of desert into a green country.

We "lefties", in general, don't want to pay any more taxes. We just are against giving billions in tax cuts to the upper 1%, and we are against the avid waste of money that is rampant in the United States of America.

The Bush tax cuts are for all... especialy the middle class.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Fez
It has accomplished the stabilization of that country, the installation of a new government, the disposal of the Taliban. You cannot deny this. THEY EVEN ARE GOING TO HAVE ELECTIONS IN TWO OR THREE YEARS!

That's good that the Taliban is gone, but it wasn't worth the price tag. And it sure as hell didn't do much to curb terrorism in the US.

Did I ever say otherwise? I love the way Israel has done its irrigation and conservation networks... drip technology, treat and clean waste water for crops. They have turned a ugly piece of desert into a green country.

?? I'm confused... you just defended the war on terror, yet agreed with me ???

The Bush tax cuts are for all... especialy the middle class.

Enron paid 0 dollars in taxes from 1997-2000 and they got 500 million in tax cut money. My family paid close to 40k in taxes (probably more) in 2000 and received 300 bucks. Meanwhile, we've lost about $14,000 from 401k and ROTH IRA losses.

Bush tax cuts for all? please... take that phony rhetoric elsewhere.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Or look at the $1.35 bn tax cut. Instead, we could have put that money into education/alternate energy subsidy/increase retirement funds/increased healthcare/increased aid to 3rd world countries. But no. Alternate Energy? Phww. Ah'm an oil man! Eddycation? Them teachers never taugh me nuthing. Retirement funds? Whats that! If you havnt made your money before you retire, then don't retire. Increased aid to the 3rd world? Hey, Colin, what's da 3rd world anyway?

[Akka]

Retirement funds? Whats that! If you havnt made your money before you retire, then don't retire.

It's such a well done example of the conservative free capitalists mentality... It's nearly artistic

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava

That's good that the Taliban is gone, but it wasn't worth the price tag. And it sure as hell didn't do much to curb terrorism in the US.

Yes it did.

?? I'm confused... you just defended the war on terror, yet agreed with me ???

You were talking about conservation and water saving techniques. The war on terror is necessary and bombs might have to be dropped but the water systems of these countries need to be built, as well as the rest of the civil services once the war is over in that specific country.

Enron paid 0 dollars in taxes from 1997-2000 and they got 500 million in tax cut money. My family paid close to 40k in taxes (probably more) in 2000 and received 300 bucks. Meanwhile, we've lost about $14,000 from 401k and ROTH IRA losses.

But my family got a lot more from tax cuts. We aren't upper class either. I will have to talk with my dad about the tax cuts but I am sure it was more than $300. But corporate tax cuts are good because they can stimulate the economy in the long run, something liberals fail to see.

Bush tax cuts for all? please... take that phony rhetoric elsewhere.

What you are saying is no better than what I am saying.

[Kepler]

Originally posted by Fez

Yes it did.

If I keep agreeing with Fez I'm going to see a doctor, but I am *absolutely* with him that taking out the Taliban did reduce worldwide and anti-American terrorism. Doing nothing would have begged for even greater attacks.

To me, the silliest assertion of conservatives is using the abbrev IMHO.

[Giancarlo]

If nothing was done to take out the taliban, Al qaeda would of went on developing chemical and biological weapons. And sooner or later would of gotten its hands on a nuclear warhead.

It sure didn't delete the problem but it certainly reduce it.

[leftover_crack]

Gah. Dont tell me the left cant be authoritive. Christ, look what there telling people. You cant use or buy guns, You cant smoke, you cant drink in public. Oh a few dozen more things.

Thats all the left wants to do. Thats its bloody mission. Its to control how YOU live your LIFE.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by leftover_crack
Gah. Dont tell me the left cant be authoritive. Christ, look what there telling people. You cant use or buy guns, You cant smoke, you cant drink in public. Oh a few dozen more things.

Thats all the left wants to do. Thats its bloody mission. Its to control how YOU live your LIFE.

Damn right.

[leftover_crack]

oh and if you idiot liberals and conservatives would get your head out of your politicians ass and look at the bigger picture. Your both Morons. Both parties. Both voters who vote for those parties. Your whoring your votes to Gore and Bush for 'issues' not freakin Solutions.

Dont Blame me I voted for Harry Brown

[Giancarlo]

Leftover, I have to disagree with you there... look at the bigger picture? What the heck do you mean? I already look at the bigger picture and will be voting on party lines.

[leftover_crack]

Good for you.

But I disagree. Both the left and the right have goals. Those goals are Ultimate power and control of how the rest of us live. Thats wrong. Throughout history we see both parties reach these goals. We see Communism in the east. Fascism in West. Both equally destructive.

I have no trust for either side of the political spectrum. Things like Gun Control, Religon, Expression (-minus political correctness), Drugs and stuff. These arent issues. These are RIGHTS. These are not 'issues' for rich men in suits seated in parliaments to mess with and gain support from radical voters.

Im against ANYTHING that forces us to live to some modern standerd or as part of some crack-pot utopian marxist dream.

[Giancarlo]

Fine... then can we agree to disagree? I am not for fascism.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

But corporate tax cuts are good because they can stimulate the economy in the long run, something liberals fail to see.

Corporations need to first start paying for the externalities that they cause. The only reason to give tax cuts to corporations is to get the economy stimulated. However, like with most fiscal policy, it takes too long to take effect. There arn't even any guarrantees that the corporations will spend the money. Why would you want to stimulate the economy now for later on, when everything will be better off later on anyways?
Monetary policy is the way to go. It acts quickly and does the trick.

Both the left and the right have goals. Those goals are Ultimate power and control of how the rest of us live. Thats wrong.

I think that there are people on both side of the spectrum who do not want ultimate power and control. They are called libertarians, and while there were authoritarian lefties (like Stalin) and authoritarian righties (like Hitler) the vast majority of people are no where near these demagogues.

I agree that the war on terrorism was something which had to happen, and it was a good thing. I don't think that they money was wasted, because you can put no price to keep a chemical/biological/nuclear explosion in any city in the world from happening.

Your whoring your votes to Gore and Bush for 'issues' not freakin Solutions.

Unfortunately there is an electoral college in America which prevents more than two parties from being succesful. This is because it automatically eliminates up to 1/2 of the votes cast by American citizens. Voting for anyone except those parties will be like throwing your vote away.

My dad was working in one of the largest oil companies... if you say that to him he will immediately claim the opposite.

What do you expect? Its not like someone who is working for a company is going to give it a bad rap by saying 'My company doesn't help protect the environment but I still work for it.'

The Bush tax cuts are for all... especialy the middle class

The Bush tax cut did provide money for every tax paying American. However, 90% of it went to the top 2%, will the remaining 98% of America shared the scraps. Bush even admitted it himself on one of the debates. he said that since the rich pay the most taxes, they will get the biggest tax cut.

[Giancarlo]

BlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBl ahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlah blahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahbl ahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblah blahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahbl ahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblah blahBlahblahblahblah

BlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBl ahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlah blahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahbl ahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblah blahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahbl ahblahBlahblahblahblahBlahblahblahblah



(I am stealing ideas here)

[CyberGnu]

Ordinarily I'd suport tax cuts, but only as long as the national debt was paid off. The money 'lost' throught the tax cut is borrowed through bonds, which in turn is money invested by americans. If the bonds were less attractive that money would go into stocks instead, and stimulating the economy...

Clintons most worthwhile accomplishment, reduced in less than a year of Bush...

[leftover_crack]

"I think that there are people on both side of the spectrum who do not want ultimate power and control. They are called libertarians, and while there were authoritarian lefties (like Stalin) and authoritarian righties (like Hitler) the vast majority of people are no where near these demagogues. "

The past 30 years of american politic's can be summed up in 2 words

DEAD-BEATS.

Both democrat and republican.

If you really dont think the goal of any president is to get good light on his party and gain more power your wrong. We saw how clinton used the line item veto, ILLEGALLY. We saw how he rammed his agenda down everyones throats! Including ms.lewinski's. He didnt do the business of america. He did the business of the 15% that funded his campaign. God dang, cant you see?

Bush is in it for the oil. oh and btw anyone who thinks the president can bomb Iraq (or afghanistan) without a declaring a war is a partisan. The right (which *****ed when clinton didnt declare war on FRY in 1999) is now fine with bush not declaring war (the majority anyway). The left, which didnt care when clinton bombed Belgrade..now suddenly cares. Wow...this is hipocrasy in Reverse. Its a sick twisted political game that could take a 300 page book report to explain. Its ultimate motives? To gain power, to gain voters. Lies and head games. The Left is stained with there inactivity, NAFTA and immoral administrations the last 30 years. The right is stained cause it lets stuff like Enron happen. Because it plays on emotions after 9-11.

Because it doesnt give a rats ass about anyone who makes under 100.000$ a year. The left doesnt care about the poor folks either...know why? If they werent poor..guess who they would vote for? The democrats know the secret to getting 8 million african americans out of the ghetto. They wont do it. They could lose those votes...so they hold them down. Throw them a bone now and then. And really doesnt act unless the herd of mindless sheep (pardon my analogy) start to revolt and go with others.



"Unfortunately there is an electoral college in America which prevents more than two parties from being succesful. This is because it automatically eliminates up to 1/2 of the votes cast by American citizens. Voting for anyone except those parties will be like throwing your vote away. "

NO. This has nothing to do with the Electoral College. Thats the way the voting system was set up. So it should BE that way. Its about repulicans and Democrats holding down Buchannon, Browne, and Nader. Not allowing them to Debate. Not addressing there critism. Conspiring with each other to hold the later down by passing draconian laws which dictate you must poll 15% to enter a debate....BS

If there wasnt an electoral college the election would of been the same. Third parties accounted for only 7% of the vote. It has nothing to do with the college.

[CyberGnu]

If you really dont think the goal of any president is to get good light on his party and gain more power your wrong. We saw how clinton used the line item veto, ILLEGALLY. We saw how he rammed his agenda down everyones throats! Including ms.lewinski's. He didnt do the business of america. He did the business of the 15% that funded his campaign.

Oh yes. Thank Vishnu that Bush came and ended this nightmare of prosperity.

[leftover_crack]

"Oh yes. Thank Vishnu that Bush came and ended this nightmare of prosperity."

Bro where you been? it ended in 1999.

Prosperity? phh.. who? The only thing I saw was industry leave and Kmart take its place

[CyberGnu]

From the Onion:

WASHINGTON, DC—Mere days from assuming the presidency and closing the door on eight years of Bill Clinton, president-elect George W. Bush assured the nation in a televised address Tuesday that "our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over."


Above: President-elect Bush vows that "together, we can put the triumphs of the recent past behind us."
"My fellow Americans," Bush said, "at long last, we have reached the end of the dark period in American history that will come to be known as the Clinton Era, eight long years characterized by unprecedented economic expansion, a sharp decrease in crime, and sustained peace overseas. The time has come to put all of that behind us."

Bush swore to do "everything in [his] power" to undo the damage wrought by Clinton's two terms in office, including selling off the national parks to developers, going into massive debt to develop expensive and impractical weapons technologies, and passing sweeping budget cuts that drive the mentally ill out of hospitals and onto the street.

During the 40-minute speech, Bush also promised to bring an end to the severe war drought that plagued the nation under Clinton, assuring citizens that the U.S. will engage in at least one Gulf War-level armed conflict in the next four years.

"You better believe we're going to mix it up with somebody at some point during my administration," said Bush, who plans a 250 percent boost in military spending. "Unlike my predecessor, I am fully committed to putting soldiers in battle situations. Otherwise, what is the point of even having a military?"

On the economic side, Bush vowed to bring back economic stagnation by implementing substantial tax cuts, which would lead to a recession, which would necessitate a tax hike, which would lead to a drop in consumer spending, which would lead to layoffs, which would deepen the recession even further.

Wall Street responded strongly to the Bush speech, with the Dow Jones industrial fluctuating wildly before closing at an 18-month low. The NASDAQ composite index, rattled by a gloomy outlook for tech stocks in 2001, also fell sharply, losing 4.4 percent of its total value between 3 p.m. and the closing bell.

Asked for comment about the cooling technology sector, Bush said: "That's hardly my area of expertise."

Turning to the subject of the environment, Bush said he will do whatever it takes to undo the tremendous damage not done by the Clinton Administration to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He assured citizens that he will follow through on his campaign promise to open the 1.5 million acre refuge's coastal plain to oil drilling. As a sign of his commitment to bringing about a change in the environment, he pointed to his choice of Gale Norton for Secretary of the Interior. Norton, Bush noted, has "extensive experience" fighting environmental causes, working as a lobbyist for lead-paint manufacturers and as an attorney for loggers and miners, in addition to suing the EPA to overturn clean-air standards.

Bush had equally high praise for Attorney General nominee John Ashcroft, whom he praised as "a tireless champion in the battle to protect a woman's right to give birth."

"Soon, with John Ashcroft's help, we will move out of the Dark Ages and into a more enlightened time when a woman will be free to think long and hard before trying to fight her way past throngs of protesters blocking her entrance to an abortion clinic," Bush said. "We as a nation can look forward to lots and lots of babies."


Above: Soldiers at Ft. Bragg march lockstep in preparation for America's return to aggression.
Continued Bush: "John Ashcroft will be invaluable in healing the terrible wedge President Clinton drove between church and state."

The speech was met with overwhelming approval from Republican leaders.

"Finally, the horrific misrule of the Democrats has been brought to a close," House Majority Leader Dennis Hastert (R-IL) told reporters. "Under Bush, we can all look forward to military aggression, deregulation of dangerous, greedy industries, and the defunding of vital domestic social-service programs upon which millions depend. Mercifully, we can now say goodbye to the awful nightmare that was Clinton's America."

"For years, I tirelessly preached the message that Clinton must be stopped," conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh said. "And yet, in 1996, the American public failed to heed my urgent warnings, re-electing Clinton despite the fact that the nation was prosperous and at peace under his regime. But now, thank God, that's all done with. Once again, we will enjoy mounting debt, jingoism, nuclear paranoia, mass deficit, and a massive military build-up."

An overwhelming 49.9 percent of Americans responded enthusiastically to the Bush speech.

"After eight years of relatively sane fiscal policy under the Democrats, we have reached a point where, just a few weeks ago, President Clinton said that the national debt could be paid off by as early as 2012," Rahway, NJ, machinist and father of three Bud Crandall said. "That's not the kind of world I want my children to grow up in."

"You have no idea what it's like to be black and enfranchised," said Marlon Hastings, one of thousands of Miami-Dade County residents whose votes were not counted in the 2000 presidential election. "George W. Bush understands the pain of enfranchisement, and ever since Election Day, he has fought tirelessly to make sure it never happens to my people again."

Bush concluded his speech on a note of healing and redemption.

"We as a people must stand united, banding together to tear this nation in two," Bush said. "Much work lies ahead of us: The gap between the rich and the poor may be wide, be there's much more widening left to do. We must squander our nation's hard-won budget surplus on tax breaks for the wealthiest 15 percent. And, on the foreign front, we must find an enemy and defeat it."

"The insanity is over," Bush said. "After a long, dark night of peace and stability, the sun is finally rising again over America. We look forward to a bright new dawn not seen since the glory days of my dad."


99'? Still a pretty good year... Granted, it wasn't Bush's fault that the economy died right after he took office, but he hasn't done anything to help either... Clinton entered office in pretty much the same situation, and dug the US out of the whole pretty much right away.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by leftover_crack
oh and if you idiot liberals and conservatives would get your head out of your politicians ass and look at the bigger picture. Your both Morons. Both parties. Both voters who vote for those parties. Your whoring your votes to Gore and Bush for 'issues' not freakin Solutions.

Dont Blame me I voted for Harry Brown

My original intent of this troll thread was not to be taken seriously.

In other words -- chill.

[CyberGnu]

Man, I haven't read that article since the election, but it is spooky - Every single prediction has actually happened...

[leftover_crack]

"99'? Still a pretty good year... Granted, it wasn't Bush's fault that the economy died right after he took office, but he hasn't done anything to help either... Clinton entered office in pretty much the same situation, and dug the US out of the whole pretty much right away."

Clinton didtn have his administration attacked on a grand scale did he? I mean to the tune of 1 trillion dollars of economic loss.

How can you make that statement? Bush was in power for what 8 months when that happened?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Clinton entered office in pretty much the same situation, and dug the US out of the whole pretty much right away.

Say what? When Clinton took office, the economy was already at least 6-10 months in recovery! And interestingly enough the stock market (not a true barometer of the economy, I know, but fun to look at), didn't truly take off until 1995... what happened then? Oh yeah, the Republicans took Congress .