sad thoughts on poly posters

Capt Dizle · August 29, 2002, 20:33

All of the anit-American crap I am seeing here, including some from Americans makes me glad that I will die some day and not be here to witness the little intellectual integrity and moral timber left in the world slide into the abyss.

America spent the first half of the last century fighting to save Europe from German oppression and the last half holding back the Soviet iron curtain. Now we want to attack terror at its root and few if any posters here credit America as being any better than the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, and Soviet Communists.

Who was willing to fight communism in Asia. We did. Badly, but we did it to prevent the world from being overun with communist evil that would have stripped from every corner of the world every last vestige of freedom and dignity.

And, setting aside the respect and thanks that we are due, the posters here have no sense of history.

I have lived long enough to understand why we must have these regular and horric wars. People are of bad moral character.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 20:35

Quote:

Who was willing to fight communism in Asia. We did. Badly, but we did it to prevent the world from being overun with communist evil that would have stripped from every corner of the world every last vestige of freedom and dignity.

Oh, you mean Korea and Vietnam? The two countries where American presence was opposed by a majority of the people, even in the so called "democratic" sectors? Please. In both instances we were fighting to keep part of the country a pro-American dictatorship. If we left it up to the people, both would have probably gone for communism.

As much as that would have been a mistake, it is not our problem and none of our business.

Capt Dizle · August 29, 2002, 20:39

Floyd, clearly, we were fighting to prevent the spread of communism and not to prop up dictatorships. And you know that so why do you want to attribute to America an evilness that has never existed?

Boris Godunov · August 29, 2002, 20:41

First half of the century fighting German oppression? Huh?

We spent from 1941-1945 doing that, which hardly constitutes half a Century. Oh, you're not one of those historical revisionists who asserts Germany was the evil villain in WWI as well, are you?

Otherwise...whine, whine, whine. If you can't handle people being critical of U.S. policy, past and present, without jumping the tired old "They hate America!" crap, then maybe you should just curl up and...well, you know.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 20:41

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Floyd, clearly, we were fighting to prevent the spread of communism and not to prop up dictatorships.

Yes, we wanted to stop the spread of communism. Granted. But we also wanted pro-American governments. We fought in the name of freedom, but having pro-American puppets to use against the Soviet Union was more important to us than the concept of self-determination.

Quote:

And you know that so why do you want to attribute to America an evilness that has never existed?

True, I could point out much better examples of evilness, such as the dropping of the atomic bombs, or the internment of Japanese Americans, or the draft, or fighting offensive wars. I'll discuss any of those - you pick.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 20:42

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Oh, you're not one of those historical revisionists who asserts Germany was the evil villain in WWI as well, are you?

I bet he is

Capt Dizle · August 29, 2002, 20:50

There is plenty of revisionism here and thats for sure. I guess you folks will brand America as the evil villain of WW1 now.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 20:52

No, no one was really the evil villain of WW1. The whole war was a mistake on everyone's part.

Certainly the US bears a responsibility to its own citizens for causing the death of over 120,000 Americans during the war, a war that could easily have been avoided.

Asher · August 29, 2002, 20:55

My history is a little rough here, but didn't the US stay out of WW2 until they were attacked, whereas nations like Canada were involved from the very beginning?

I think it's a bit disturbing you're trying to paint the US as being a nation who selflessly became involved in "saving Europe from German oppression". Canada was the one who got involved in both world wars without being attacked.

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Who was willing to fight communism in Asia.

This could be rewritten to say:
Who was willing to interfere with other nation's politics to push its own agenda?

Boris Godunov · August 29, 2002, 21:02

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Originally posted by jimmytrick
There is plenty of revisionism here and thats for sure. I guess you folks will brand America as the evil villain of WW1 now.

Not everyone sees such things in simplistic, black-and-white ways like you apparently do, so why should they?

There's certainly no historical support for America being the bad guy of WWI. Lay that blame on all of the European powers who brought about that contest of stupidity, especially Britain.

We know the low-quality American school history texts have indoctrinated you into this blandly uberpatriotic view of the U.S. past, but try to think outside of the box a little, m'kay?

civman2000 · August 29, 2002, 21:03

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No, no one was really the evil villain of WW1. The whole war was a mistake on everyone's part.

Well, I would disagree...Woodrow Wilson was definitely an evil villain, though not really a war villain.

Boris Godunov · August 29, 2002, 21:09

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Originally posted by civman2000
Well, I would disagree...Woodrow Wilson was definitely an evil villain, though not really a war villain.

true...

(thoughIaddforDavid'sbenefitWilsondidn'tsinktheLus itania)

Capt Dizle · August 29, 2002, 21:10

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Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Not everyone sees such things in simplistic, black-and-white ways like you apparently do, so why should they?

There's certainly no historical support for America being the bad guy of WWI. Lay that blame on all of the European powers who brought about that contest of stupidity, especially Britain.

We know the low-quality American school history texts have indoctrinated you into this blandly uberpatriotic view of the U.S. past, but try to think outside of the box a little, m'kay?

Nice baiting, I'll give you that.

Tuberski · August 29, 2002, 21:16

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Originally posted by Asher
My history is a little rough here, but didn't the US stay out of WW2 until they were attacked, whereas nations like Canada were involved from the very beginning?

Canadian warmongers!!!

Asher · August 29, 2002, 21:19

You know it.

Boris Godunov · August 29, 2002, 21:19

Come on, at least try to support your silly claims of American Perfection with something!

Tell us how evil and nasty the Germans were in WWI, how the allies were such perfect angels, and how America swooped in (on principle) to stop that ruthless German oppression of the mud in NE France...

connorkimbro · August 29, 2002, 21:22

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Oh, you mean Korea and Vietnam? The two countries where American presence was opposed by a majority of the people, even in the so called "democratic" sectors?

I can't say about vietnam, but as for the korean war, about the only people that didn't want us there were the communist sympathizers. Which, in the south, were a small minority.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 21:34

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I can't say about vietnam, but as for the korean war, about the only people that didn't want us there were the communist sympathizers. Which, in the south, were a small minority.

At the very least, they weren't happy with the dictators we propped up, who in many cases were former Japanese puppets, from my understanding.

Q Classic · August 29, 2002, 21:35

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Oh, you mean Korea and Vietnam? The two countries where American presence was opposed by a majority of the people, even in the so called "democratic" sectors?

funny, i had this strange feeling that most koreans were glad that the us came in and crushed the communists...

if anything, most of the distaste among the hardliners is that america didn't do a thorough enough job of crushing communism...

and in the case of korea, the us didn't prop up former japanese puppets. you guys propped up corrupt, sneaky bastards who tended to be authoritarian or brought in by a coup d'etat. the only one who did any good for korea happened to be one of the meaner ones, park chung hee... who jumped start economic growth there.

DinoDoc · August 29, 2002, 21:45

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Originally posted by Asher
My history is a little rough here, but didn't the US stay out of WW2 until they were attacked, whereas nations like Canada were involved from the very beginning?

That was only because your masters, at the time, in London drug you along for the ride.

connorkimbro · August 29, 2002, 21:45

syngman rhee wasn't even a US puppet, he was installed by the UN

Dis · August 29, 2002, 21:48

ya have to admit America lack some serious moral and ethical values. But it sill beats living anywhere else

America #1!

Asher · August 29, 2002, 21:58

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Originally posted by DinoDoc
That was only because your masters, at the time, in London drug you along for the ride.

In World War Two Canada was a completely sovereign nation and wasn't obligated to join in on the war.

Dis · August 29, 2002, 22:03

yes but they were still a bit attached to mommy

Felch · August 29, 2002, 22:03

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Originally posted by Asher
In World War Two Canada was a completely sovereign nation and wasn't obligated to join in on the war.

Yes

Six Thousand Year Old Man · August 29, 2002, 22:06

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Originally posted by Dissident
yes but they were still a bit attached to mommy

So was FDR, it just took Churchill a bit longer...

chequita guevara · August 29, 2002, 22:19

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Originally posted by connorkimbro
I can't say about vietnam, but as for the korean war, about the only people that didn't want us there were the communist sympathizers. Which, in the south, were a small minority.

Not that small. Rhee had to kill a 100,000 people to stay in power.

Q Classic · August 29, 2002, 22:48

not all of them were communist, che. he was a dictator, flat out, and killed anyone he didn't like.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 22:51

Exactly - I can't imagine why jimmytrick would support propping up a dictator on one hand in order to run a war, ostenisbly for freedom, on the other.

notyoueither · August 29, 2002, 23:25

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Originally posted by Dissident
yes but they were still a bit attached to mommy

Damn straight! We count on mommy to get entangled every once in a while. Sometimes we need a break from hockey.

As for dictators and the Cold War... It wasn't a matter of planting democratic daisies everywhere, it was a show down between the Stalinist Soviet Bloc (and China) and the Democratic West played out mainly in other countries.

Those who ruled, or who were best to rule given the conditions became the tools for both sides.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.