China Claims Vietnam and North Korea

DaShi · August 29, 2002, 22:51

The Chinese government is no longer suppressing its anger at certain Western nations for their acknowledgement of Vietnam and North Korea as independent nations. One Chinese official states, "Vietnam and North Korea have been an inseparable part of Chinese territory since ancient times." China, whose civilized history spans nearly 4000 years has controlled nearly all of East Asia at one time or another. During the Later Han Dynasty China ruled most of the Korean penisula:

Following that dynasty China gained a significant portion of Vietnam:

The Chinese leadership claims that these territories became somewhat confused in Western eyes during some of China's occasional restructuring of government. Although China has placed heavy troops along its borders with North Korea and Vietnam, the government still hopes that reintegration will go smoothly and unhindered. "Peaceful reunification of the motherland is a set policy of the Chinese government. However, the Chinese government is under no obligation to undertake any commitment to give up the use of force," explains Gong JianZhong, Press Counsellor for the PRC embassy in London. While each nation holds its own economy and are represented separately in the Olympic games, the Chinese argue that they are permitted to do this as separate tariff zones, an economy or sports organization under the one-China principle but not as independent states.

When questioned further about Vietnam's and North Korea's status according to China, the Chinese leadership responded, "Most governments of the world, including the British government, recognize that the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government representing China and that Vietnam and North Korea are part of China. We are opposed to any attempt to split China in any form."

Without the American military support that holds China at bay from taking South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, one must wonder how long North Korea and Vietnam can retain their claims of independence under this kind of pressure. One must also wonder, if China successfully gains control of these two countries by this method, where will they turn their eye next?

Dis · August 29, 2002, 22:52

ahh my screen!

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 22:54

That post was kinda hard to read...assuming it's for real, which I sorta doubt, I gotta make a couple of points - with or without US assistance, China currently has no chance of defeating Taiwan, South Korea, OR Japan in a conventional war, and last time they invaded Vietnam, they lost 55,000 dead in a couple months - it took the US a decade to lose that many.

I wouldn't worry about China overrunning anybody

DaShi · August 29, 2002, 22:56

Had to get rid of the last image as it was too big.

Sorry for the trouble with it.

Dis · August 29, 2002, 22:56

Of course China can take those territories. The question is can they hold them?

In any case this isn't real.

DaShi · August 29, 2002, 22:57

This should be better.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 22:58

Quote:

Of course China can take those territories. The question is can they hold them?

I sorta doubt they can take them both. Certainly not both at the same time. Even if they took down North Korea first, Vietnam would be prepared, and vice versa. The PLA would be pretty wrecked in such a war, anyway, at least in terms of manpower losses.

Dis · August 29, 2002, 22:58

what does that prove?

That if some god could magically move china ontop of the U.S. they could win a war with us? Well they probably could. They would crush us.

edit: simultaneous invasions. They have the manpower for it. But they probably couldn't hold it. They don't have the logistics, and air power- not to mention naval power.

DinoDoc · August 29, 2002, 22:58

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
they lost 55,000 dead in a couple months - it took the US a decade to lose that many.

I don't think that the Chinese Army cares about 55,000 dead.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 22:59

Right, but the point is they'll take massive losses, and won't be taken seriously at all by, say, South Korea or Taiwan. Not that either of those nations has anything to fear from the PLA to begin with, but still.

DaShi · August 29, 2002, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
what does that prove?

That is some god could magically move china ontop of the U.S. they could win a war with us? Well they probably could. They would crush us.

I just like the tone it sets for the ending.

Duddha · August 29, 2002, 23:08

And if you really believe China wants back control over North Vietnam and Korea, I've got a bridge to sell you, CHEAP!

Skanky Burns · August 29, 2002, 23:09

Quote:

Right, but the point is they'll take massive losses

The point is they don't consider that a massive loss.

Gatekeeper · August 29, 2002, 23:15

DaShi, et al.:

First of all, somebody had better inform Rome about this. I'm quite sure they would be *very* interested in the fact that former territories — even independent for hundreds or thousands of years — can still be claimed.

Secondly, I don't think this story is true. Where's the source?

Gatekeeper

MichaeltheGreat · August 29, 2002, 23:18

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
Right, but the point is they'll take massive losses, and won't be taken seriously at all by, say, South Korea or Taiwan. Not that either of those nations has anything to fear from the PLA to begin with, but still.

The PLA is embarking on a long term modernization and professionalization plan to address it's shortcomings. They still won't give a rat's ass about 55,000 casualties, but they'll be able to deal a lot more damage for those losses in the coming couple of decades.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 23:20

Yeah, but for one thing they're not building up their navy in any relevant way if they want to go after Taiwan, much less Japan, which has the strongest navy in Asia (except for the US Navy, of course

).

MichaeltheGreat · August 29, 2002, 23:30

Japan's navy is seriously deficient in FAD assets, and is not trained or structured to operate in large formations. A bunch of individual destroyers and frigates ain't going to do much.

Taiwan's navy has one big problem - it has to operating from Taiwan.

David Floyd · August 29, 2002, 23:33

Quote:

Japan's navy is seriously deficient in FAD assets, and is not trained or structured to operate in large formations. A bunch of individual destroyers and frigates ain't going to do much.

True, but compared to the Chinese navy, or any other navy in Asia, I don't see how they could lose.

Dr Strangelove · August 29, 2002, 23:55

Gee, a source sure would taste real good right about now.

I don't think the hinese government is really that crazy. The loss of goodwill around the world would be devastating to China because it would ruin their trade and hence, their economy.

monolith94 · August 30, 2002, 00:59

I… er… think it was a parody, strangelove…
hence the amateurish paint .bmps

Lord Merciless · August 30, 2002, 01:31

The source: http://www.onion.com

That was good laugh.

The Mad Monk · August 30, 2002, 02:43

While a parody, I think it does have a valid point: if China claims Taiwan on the basis of it being 'a former Chinese territory', what keeps it from pressing a similar claim on Vietnam/Korea/etc?

Note that I'm not discussing their abilty to back the claims, just justify them.

Urban Ranger · August 30, 2002, 02:51

TMM,

Taiwan is not "former" territory, it is current territory. Neither the PRC nor the ROC has given up claims to each other's land.

Gatekeeper · August 30, 2002, 03:47

UR:

Heh. I prefer Taiwan's method of governance, though. They're renowned internationally for their MP-on-MP fistfights!

Gatekeeper

The Mad Monk · August 30, 2002, 04:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
TMM,

Taiwan is not "former" territory, it is current territory. Neither the PRC nor the ROC has given up claims to each other's land.

So...the claims are legaly equivalent?

TheStinger · August 30, 2002, 04:31

Taiwan should just declare independence and get on with being what they are, a soverign nation

Urban Ranger · August 30, 2002, 04:34

Gatekeeper,

Those are spectacles I don't want to miss

TMM,

Surely not. The PRC has a much smaller claim

TheStinger,

Doesn't work, because a) there is a large contingent of unification supporters in Taiwan, particularly among the business community b) of the constitution

The Mad Monk · August 30, 2002, 04:39

Hmmmm...so...Taiwan could attack mainland China (for argument's sake, bear with me here), and legitimately use the identical claims and logic to justify such an attack to the rest of the world?

TheStinger · August 30, 2002, 05:22

Do the business comunity have more votes?

Constitutions can be changed.

Urban Ranger · August 30, 2002, 07:08

TMM,

Possibly, except that ROC isn't a recognised country. Besides, why would it want to do that? That's just courting disaster. Even if the PLA couldn't take over Taiwan, its export-oriented economy will collapse.

TheStinger,

Not that it has more votes but it has a lot of influence. Sure the constitution can be changed but the pro-independent faction will not be able to find enough support for that. The island's economy is in the pits right now and the Democratic Progressive Party has done a lot to worsen the situation. Surely they aren't very popular right now.