August 31, 2002, 15:48
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#31
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Ok, I don't see how selling for a high value is bad, but I'll change my vote to no.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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August 31, 2002, 16:16
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#32
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Yes, Nimitz, you can edit your post as much as you want until he session is over.
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You don't edit your post you quote it and post changes underneath your quote. (Otherwise people would edit old proposals after the market closed to get extra $)
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August 31, 2002, 16:26
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#33
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Code:
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House Ghengis Land Holdings in the Province of Mingapulco
Turn #: 003
Holdings:
House Ghengis:
"Apolyfield" - 004 Apolyton NW (grass),
"Jungleister" - 015 Termina NE3 (jungle),
"Ghengis Mountain" - 022 Tassagrad NW (jungle)
Leased from adaMada:
005 Apolyton NW10 (mined grass rd)
Leased from civman2000:
008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd)
Leased from UnOrthOdOx:
013 Termina NE1 (jungle),
014 Termina NE2 (jungle)
Leased from Kloreep:
006 Apolyton NW11 (mined grass rd)
Stockpile(s):
GhengisFarb Estate: 0 food, 1 shields, 3 commerce
adaMada Estate:.....0 food, 3 shields, 3 commerce
civman2000 Estate:.0 food, 1 shields, 1 commerce
Kloreep Estate:.....0 food, 4 shields, 0 commerce
TOTAL STOCKPILE..0 food, 9 shields, 7 commerce
Cash: $166
Debt: -$1000 (10% interest, 13 turns remaining on grace period)
Buildings: (3 of ?) Building?
Administered by: GhengisFarb, First Ghengis of House Ghengis
Last turn's completed trades:
GhengisFarb sold 9 food at $43
GhengisFarb paid adaMada $110 rent
GhengisFarb paid civman2000 $175 rent
GhengisFarb paid UnOrthOdOx $125 rent
..........net Cash Flow =-$155
Production this turn: 11 food, 5 shields, 4 commerce
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Proposed Deals:
Sell 7 food @ $76 (D:S 32/23 (18+5)=$139)
Sell 11 commerce @ $55 (D:S 48/23 (12+11)=$104)
Pay civman2000 $175 rent
Pay adaMada $110 rent
Pay UnOrthOdOx $100 rent
Pay Kloreep $100 rent
Bid $5 each for two French Workers
TAVERN IN APOLYTON
Hire 1 labor from Apolotonia @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from Shiek
Use vassal from adaMada
TAVERN IN BHQ
Hire 1 labor from BHQ @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from UnOthOdOx
Use vassal from civman2000
STOREHOUSE ON ESTATE OF GHENGISFARB
Use my vassal
Use vassal from Kloreep |
Last edited by GhengisFarb™; August 31, 2002 at 16:42.
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August 31, 2002, 16:38
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#34
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Code:
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The Jungle Gazette Estate: FINANCES ONLY
Turn #004
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shield, 0 commerce
Cash $125
Dept: -$225
Administered by: GhengisFarb
Proposed Transactions:
Bid $5 each for 4 Workers of ANY Nationality. |
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August 31, 2002, 16:42
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#35
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Code:
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Skywalker Corporation, Turn 4. Admin: Skywalker
Holdings:
Tile 019, S Tassagrad, 2/1/1
Buildings:
None
Stockpile: 0+0 food 0+1 shields 0+0 commerce
Production: 2 food 1 shields 1 commerce
Cash Change: $0
0 Selling
0 Buying
Current Cash: $0 Debt: -$1000 (Interest @ turn 18)
Selling:
2 Food @ D:S
1 Comm @ D:S
1 Labor @ $20 (NOT the labor point - just use it for a turn)
4 Shares @ $100
Buying:
Nothing
New D/S:
Food: 32/12+2 = $228
Shld: 23+0/23 = $100
Comm: 48/9+1 = $533
Termina Labor: 1/3+1 = $25 |
Let me explain the Shares thing. I've created Skywalker Corporation, and there are currently 10 shares valued at $100 (as my total worth is $1000). If you buy 1 share, you'll get 10% of all profits each turn (the turn after you buy the share). It's simple.
Also, I'd like to hire someone to administer my assets in the future, as I'll soon be gone way too much to participate in trading sessions. To qualify, you must be able to access most or all of the trading sessions near the end, so you can get the best price for my goods. Every Sunday (except this one), which is the only day I'll really be able to get on, I'll want a report on my money and holdings, the general state of the market, some specific things that people have done, etc. In return for your services, you will receive 15% of all profits each turn, BEFORE stock.
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Change: Bid 10$ for one french worker.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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August 31, 2002, 18:22
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#36
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Prince
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
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QUESTION: Has any of the fndemental rules changed? The original D:S for the products seem higher now. I didnt remember anything that started over $300 like food and commerce do now, but perhaps it has always been like that.
QUESTION: IS there any penalty for declaring that you want to sell at D:S, like 10% or somethn?
Kramerman's Brothel Ranch
Turn #: 004
Holdings: Tile 029, SW BHQ, Grassland (mine, river, road)
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shields, 3 commerce
Cash: $330
Debt: -$1500 (10% interest, 12 turns remaining on grace period)
Administered by: Pimp Daddy Kman
Stockpile:
0 food
0 shields
3 commerce
Last turn's completed trades: 2 food, 1 shields, 3 commerce
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Production this turn: 2 food, 1 shield, 2 commerce
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Proposed Deals:
selling:
Sell 2 of 2 food @ D:S
Sell 1 of 1 shields @ D:S
Sell 5 of 5 commerce @ D:S
buying:
I would like to buy two (2) share of the skywalker corporation for $200 total.
other:
renting out my one labor for $20 for one turn.
I would like to pay of $130 of my debt.
New D:S
Food: 32/14+2 = $200
Shield: 23/23+1 = $96
Commerce: 48/10 +5 = $320
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August 31, 2002, 18:33
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#37
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kramerman
QUESTION: Has any of the fndemental rules changed? The original D:S for the products seem higher now. I didnt remember anything that started over $300 like food and commerce do now, but perhaps it has always been like that.
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Yes, we basicaly took out the double counting of nobles goods. The original formula listed our production as supply and we competed against our own product.
Quote:
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Originally posted by Kramerman QUESTION: IS there any penalty for declaring that you want to sell at D:S, like 10% or somethn?
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If you "sell @ D:S" the government takes out the greater of a $5 or 10% fee PER COMMODITY (That's $10 or 10% of sale price for two food) as a fee. That way those who actively try to guess the ending price have a chance to make a little more.
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August 31, 2002, 18:39
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#38
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Yipee! Someone bought my stock!
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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August 31, 2002, 19:19
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#39
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Prince
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Yipee! Someone bought my stock!
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This corporation better get off the gorund... and if it does, Yipee!
When is the first share holders' meeting? I assume all share holders are on a board, or have some say in the corporation somehow?
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August 31, 2002, 19:27
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#40
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Note, we have not discovered the Corporation OR stock. You don't own stock, you "own a piece of skywalker."
Now what you plan on doing with "a piece of skywalker" is your business.
![yeah right!](http://static.apolyton.net/forums/images/smilies/hm.gif) I'll bet there's a few more Apolytonians that would like "a piece of skywalker."
Last edited by GhengisFarb™; August 31, 2002 at 19:37.
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August 31, 2002, 19:30
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#41
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Prince
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
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Quote:
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If you "sell @ D:S" the government takes out the greater of a $5 or 10% fee PER COMMODITY (That's $10 or 10% of sale price for two food) as a fee. That way those who actively try to guess the ending price have a chance to make a little more.
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In that case, I will try and squeeze every penny I can, at least until I get this debt paid off.
EDIT: Updated my selling prices
Code:
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Kramerman's Brothel Ranch
Turn #: 004
Last turn's completed trades: 2 food, 1 shields, 3 commerce
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Production this turn: 2 food, 1 shield, 2 commerce
---
Proposed Deals:
selling:
Sell 2 of 2 food @ $150
Sell 1 of 1 shields @ $60
Sell 5 of 5 commerce @ $250
buying:
I would like to buy two (2) share of the skywalker corporation for $200 total.
other:
renting out my one labor for $20 for one turn.
I would like to pay of $130 of my debt. |
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August 31, 2002, 19:31
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#42
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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If you really want to, we'll have a meeting every 5 trading sessions. However, as I don't intend on ever selling more than 50% of the stock, they'll be pretty worthless.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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August 31, 2002, 19:38
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#43
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Prince
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
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Aw crap. I messed up on the commerce D:S. I overlooked the new D:S / 2 deal. I'll fix that, along with my selling prices *groan* again...
Code:
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Kramerman's Brothel Ranch
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Proposed Deals:
selling:
Sell 2 of 2 food @ $150
Sell 1 of 1 shields @ $62
Sell 5 of 5 commerce @ $100
buying:
I would like to buy two (2) share of the skywalker corporation for $200 total.
other:
renting out my one labor for $20 for one turn.
I would like to pay of $130 of my debt.
New D:S
Food: 32/14+2 = $200
Shield: 23/23+1 = $96
Commerce: 48/10 +5 = $160 |
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August 31, 2002, 20:33
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#44
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King
Local Time: 02:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Libraries rule, Go Builders!
Posts: 1,590
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Code:
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Banana Pastures , Turn 4. Admin: Nimitiz
Holdings:
Tile 031, NW Banana HQ, 2/1/2
-Update-
Selling:
2 Food @ $100 each
2 Comm @ 85 each
1 shield @ 85 each
Buying:
Nothing
New D/S:
Food: 32/25 =$128
Shld: 23+0/25 = $92
Comm: 48/28 = $85.7 |
The S : D stats are getting totaly messed up help.
__________________
Join the Civ4 SPDG and save the world one library at a time.
Term 1 Minister of Finances in the Civ4 Democracy Game and current Justice in the Civ4 Democracy Game
President of the Moderate Progressives of Apolyton in the Civ4 Democracy Game Aedificium edificium est Vires
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August 31, 2002, 20:38
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#45
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Nimitz
The S : D stats are getting totaly messed up help.
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HINT: If you look at the prices I offered to sell at you'll get a good idea where the ending price should be.
The D:S starts high but should drop drastically as our product fills demand.
If you've already offered your product its already in the D:S line. Simply use the same D:S as the last person with no updates (+#).
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August 31, 2002, 21:01
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#46
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King
Local Time: 02:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Libraries rule, Go Builders!
Posts: 1,590
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I know the prices will drop its just the after your post the peoples D:S go all over the place like this 48 / 32 then the next is 48 / 16 it makes it hard to do the D:S.
__________________
Join the Civ4 SPDG and save the world one library at a time.
Term 1 Minister of Finances in the Civ4 Democracy Game and current Justice in the Civ4 Democracy Game
President of the Moderate Progressives of Apolyton in the Civ4 Democracy Game Aedificium edificium est Vires
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August 31, 2002, 21:06
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#47
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Prince
Local Time: 02:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of Bananas
Posts: 998
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I have an idea. Because we see the previous turns supply and demand, we have an idea of what the ending prices will be. WHat if , as a public service, we voluntarily update the D/S every once in a while. Since it's not required, people wont post bad numbers by accident.
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August 31, 2002, 21:18
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#48
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Re: $Mini-Game Trading Session 4
"Ask and ye shalt receive..."
....and this post takes me to "KING".......
Current Market Assessment UPDATE:
Labor Market
Apolyton Available Labor: 4
D:S 1/4 = $25
Termina Available Labor: 3
D:S 1/3 = $33
Tassagrad Available Labor: 3
D:S 0/4 = $0
BHQ Available Labor: 4
D:S 1/4 = $25
Port Rouge Available Labor: 2
D:S 0/4 = $0
Vassals for Auction:
.....7 bids so far TOTAL (4 generic)
1 German
3 French
.....3 bids so far
4 Persian
Commodity Markets
Food demand: 16x2=32
Food supplied: 2+2+2+2+2= 10
D:S = 32/23(10+13) = $139
Shield Demand: 9+4+4+4+1=22
Shield Supply: 9+5+4+4+1=23
D:S = 23(22+1)/25(23+2) = $92
NOTE BASE RATE FOR COMMERCE IS $50
So multiply D:S by 50% for current market price.
Commerce Demand: 16x3=48
Commerce Supplied: 3+2+1+1+1=8
D:S = 48/28 (8+20) x.50= $85
Last edited by GhengisFarb™; August 31, 2002 at 21:23.
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August 31, 2002, 21:28
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#49
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Change: Instead of bidding for French worker, I'm bidding $5 for German worker.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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August 31, 2002, 21:37
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#50
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Update
Code:
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Skywalker Corporation, Turn 4. Admin: Skywalker
Holdings:
Tile 019, S Tassagrad, 2/1/1
Buildings:
Tavern 0+(possible)1/3
Stockpile: 0+0 food 0+0 shields 0+0 commerce
Production: 2 food 1 shields 1 commerce
Cash Change: $0
0 Selling
0 Buying
Current Cash: $0 Debt: -$1000 (Interest @ turn 18)
Selling:
2 Food @ D:S
1 Comm @ D:S
1 Labor @ $20 (NOT the labor point - just use it for a turn)
4 Shares @ $100 (2 already sold to Kman)
Buying:
1 German Worker @ $5
Labor of 1 Tassagrad Laborer @ $33 to work on Tavern
New D/S:
Food: 32/21+2 = $129
Sheild: 23/25 = $92
Commerce: 48/27+1x.5 = $85
Tassagrad Labor: 0+1/3 = $33 |
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Last edited by Kuciwalker; August 31, 2002 at 21:56.
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August 31, 2002, 21:48
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#51
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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You forgot a D:S line:
Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Code:
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Buying:
1 German Worker @ $5
Labor of 1 Tassagrad Laborer @ $1 to work on Tavern
New D/S:
Food: 32/12+2 = $228
Sheild: 23+0/23 = $100
Commerce: 48/9+1 = $533
Labor in Tassagrad 0+1/3 =$33 |
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August 31, 2002, 21:57
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#52
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Deity
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Ok, fixed it.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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September 1, 2002, 09:11
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#53
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of the Martian Empire
Posts: 4,969
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civman's Land-sharing Services:
Turn #: 004
Holdings:
..Property:
....Tile 008 Apolyton NE1 grass mined roaded:
......Produces: 2 food, 1 shields, 1 commerce
......Stockpile: 0 food, 2 shields, 2 commerce (some being sold by GF)
......Property owned by: civman2000
......Administered by: GhengisFarb
......Commodities produced owned by: GhengisFarb (pays $175 rent)
..Money:
....Cash: $175
....Debt:
......Loan 1 (govt): -$650 (10% interest, 12 turns remaining in grace period)
Proposed deal: Pay back $175 of the loan.
__________________
Ham grass chocolate.
"This should be the question they ask you before you get to vote. If you answer 'no', then they brand you with a giant red 'I' on your forehead and you are forever barred from taking part in the electoral process again."--KrazyHorse
"I'm so very glad KH is Canadian."--Donegeal
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September 1, 2002, 09:47
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#54
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Emperor
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by OPD
Would knowledge of where labourers will work in the future be of any use to anyone.
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hi ,
![yeah right!](http://static.apolyton.net/forums/images/smilies/hm.gif) , yes it would , ....
btw , great and cool game
have a nice day
Last edited by Panag; September 1, 2002 at 13:43.
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September 1, 2002, 10:10
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#55
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Code:
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House Ghengis Land Holdings in the Province of Mingapulco
Turn #: 003
Proposed Deals:
Sell 7 food @ $76 (D:S 32/23 (18+5)=$139)
Sell 11 commerce @ $55 (D:S 48/23 (12+11)=$104)
Pay civman2000 $175 rent
Pay adaMada $110 rent
Pay UnOrthOdOx $100 rent
Pay Kloreep $100 rent
Bid $5 each for two French Workers
TAVERN IN APOLYTON
Hire 1 labor from Apolotonia @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from Shiek
Use vassal from adaMada
TAVERN IN BHQ
Hire 1 labor from BHQ @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from UnOthOdOx
Use vassal from civman2000
STOREHOUSE ON ESTATE OF GHENGISFARB
Use my vassal
Use vassal from Kloreep |
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All Proposed Deals still offered and valid.
Quote:
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Originally posted by GhengisFarb
GhengisFarb has built 3 of ? on a building in a city/estate.
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Code:
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Declaring this construction a TAVERN IN TASSAGRAD
(was built with Tassagrad Labor before we had decided on building specifics) |
Last edited by GhengisFarb™; September 1, 2002 at 10:32.
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September 1, 2002, 14:10
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#56
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Prince
Local Time: 23:13
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 570
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Dudeville
Turn #: 004
Holdings: 010 Termina NE (mined grass rd)
Stockpile: 0 food, 1 shields, 1 commerce
Cash: $80
Debt: -$1000 (10% interest, 15 turns remaining on grace period)
Buildings: None
Administered by: Duddha
Production this turn: 2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce
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Proposed Deals:
Sell 2 of 2 food @ $80 each
Sell 2 of 2 commerce @ $60 each
Sell 2 of 2 shields @ $80 each
pay $80 off debt
New D/S:
Food: 32/23+2 = $128
Sheild: 23/23+2 = $92
Commerce: 48/23+2 = $192
Did I do the D/S right?
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September 1, 2002, 14:29
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#57
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Duddha
New D/S:
Food: 32/23+2 = $128
Sheild: 23/23+2 = $92
Commerce: 48/23+2 = $192
Did I do the D/S right?
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Yes, you were off a little bit, but that was because of a mistake I made, not you. I have since corrected it.
Quote:
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Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Code:
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House Ghengis Land Holdings in the Province of Mingapulco
Turn #: 003
Proposed Deals:
Sell 7 food @ $76 (D:S 32/27 = $118)
Sell 11 commerce @ $55 (D:S 48/23 (12+11)=$104)
Pay civman2000 $175 rent
Pay adaMada $110 rent
Pay UnOrthOdOx $100 rent
Pay Kloreep $100 rent
Bid $5 each for two French Workers
TAVERN IN TASSAGRAD
Prebuilt in Trading Session 2
Quote:
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GhengisFarb has built 3 of ? on a building in a city/estate.
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TAVERN IN APOLYTON
Hire 1 labor from Apolotonia @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from Shiek
Use vassal from adaMada
TAVERN IN BHQ
Hire 1 labor from BHQ @ $26 (D:S 1/4 =$25)
Use vassal from UnOthOdOx
Use vassal from civman2000
STOREHOUSE ON ESTATE OF GHENGISFARB
Use my vassal
Use vassal from Kloreep |
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All Proposed Deals still offered and valid except for the following change:
Code:
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Proposed Deals:
Sell 9 food @ $76 (D:S 32/29=$110) |
I currently get the following for D:S rates:
FOOD
D:S 32/29 = $110
SHIELDS
D:S 23/27 = $85
COMMERCE
D:S 48/30 = $80
Last edited by GhengisFarb™; September 1, 2002 at 14:38.
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September 1, 2002, 16:46
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#58
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Prince
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
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Updated my selling prices. The D:S is no different.
Code:
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Kramerman's Brothel Ranch
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Proposed Deals:
selling:
Sell 2 of 2 food @ $90
Sell 1 of 1 shields @ $75
Sell 5 of 5 commerce @ $70
buying:
I would like to buy two (2) share of the skywalker corporation for $200 total.
other:
renting out my one labor for $20 for one turn.
I would like to pay of $130 of my debt. |
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September 1, 2002, 17:22
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#59
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Deity
Local Time: 01:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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(For some reason I hadn't calculated Kramerman in the food D:S)
I currently get the following for D:S rates:
FOOD
D:S 32/31(10+21) = $103
SHIELDS
D:S 23(22+1)/27(23+4) = $85
COMMERCE
D:S 48/30(8+22) = $80
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September 1, 2002, 18:14
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#60
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King
Local Time: 02:13
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Libraries rule, Go Builders!
Posts: 1,590
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Code:
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Banana Pastures , Turn 4. Admin: Nimitiz
Holdings:
Tile 031, NW Banana HQ, 2/1/2
-Update-
Selling:
2 Food @ $95 each
2 Comm @ 80 each
1 shield @ 75 each
Buying:
Nothing
New D/S:
Food: 32/31 =$103
Shld: 23/27 = $85
Comm: 48/30 = $80 |
Updated prices
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