4th Apolyton CtP2 SP Tournament: 3 September - 3 November 2002 - Page 5

hexagonian · September 14, 2002, 08:53

This problem has beem reported before in Cradle, so this is not new.

The endgame requirements are different from the default game. Here are the Cradle requirements.

ENDGAME_GAIA_CONTROLLER_CORE {
Wonder WONDER_THE_SOLARIS_PROJECT

TurnsToActivate 50
}

ENDGAME_GAIA_COMPUTER {
Building IMPROVE_GAIA_COMPUTER

MinNeeded 30
}

ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITE {
Building IMPROVE_POWER_SATELLITE

MinNeeded 30
MaxNeeded 45
}

ENDGAME_PROCESSING_TOWER {
TerrainImprovement TILEIMP_PROCESSING_TOWER

MinNeeded 10

PowerSource ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITE

// use min radius when min power sources are built
MinRadius 4

// use max radius when max power sources are built
MaxRadius 7

// need to have 70% of the map area covered
MinCoverage 0.7
}

And here are the default requirements.

ENDGAME_GAIA_CONTROLLER_CORE {
Wonder WONDER_THE_SOLARIS_PROJECT

TurnsToActivate 10
}

ENDGAME_GAIA_COMPUTER {
Building IMPROVE_GAIA_COMPUTER

MinNeeded 10
}

ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITE {
Building IMPROVE_POWER_SATELLITE

MinNeeded 10
MaxNeeded 20
}

ENDGAME_PROCESSING_TOWER {
TerrainImprovement TILEIMP_PROCESSING_TOWER

MinNeeded 5

PowerSource ENDGAME_POWER_SATELLITE

// use min radius when min power sources are built
MinRadius 5

// use max radius when max power sources are built
MaxRadius 8

// need to have 60% of the map area covered
MinCoverage 0.6
}

Nothing else was changed.

Could it be that changing the numerical requirements may cause a bug??? But as Locutus reported, sometimes a player has success on the same setup while other players crash.

So I'm confused

Martin Gühmann · September 14, 2002, 11:21

Quote:

Originally posteed by hexagonian
Could it be that changing the numerical requirements may cause a bug??? But as Locutus reported, sometimes a player has success on the same setup while other players crash.

As I tried to win by the science in the first tournerment I game crashed, too. I found out that when I completed the Solaris Project this problem occured. I had everything ready the needed controllers, satellites, computers and obelisks. Just the womnder was missing. I am not shure if I already started the activation sequence, maybe yes. Finally I was able to stretch the construction of the Solaris Project until I got the science victory.

-Martin

centrifuge · September 14, 2002, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
centrifuge,
3700BC

Amazing... you are either EXTREMELY good or EXTREMELY lucky...

Well, I'm sure that you know which one I'd prefer it to be

, but I think that there was probably some luck involved

Shadow · September 15, 2002, 06:59

Plan No. 1 - Science Victory.

Plan No. 2 - Survival / Rejection of plan No. 1.

Plan No. 3 - Make a B-line for Nukes. I think this will be the only thing ultimately saving me, I'm just so far behind, but somehow 'just' holding on.

mnbryan37 · September 15, 2002, 09:45

Locutus,

A very wise, Solomon like ruling.

Shadow,

I have had the same experience. Plan #1, a quick conquest victory, Plan #2, survival and hang on. Haven't decided on plan 3 yet, but Nukes sound good. I'm ready for a lot of revenge!!

centrifuge · September 15, 2002, 14:00

Trying for the nukes huh? Just don't let the UN weapons inspectors find out...

HuangShang · September 15, 2002, 15:12

yo man i need to start

mnbryan37 · September 15, 2002, 23:50

I'm having a problem with the system crashing every time an AI force tries to pillage in a city that I previously captured. Any suggestions?

Shadow · September 16, 2002, 03:29

mnbryan37,

Yes, it's going to be sweet, sweet revenge...!

I was going to race to Eco Rangers, but Nukes will do the job just fine...

I had a problem in the last tournament of AIs pillaging my tiles and ALL my units activating. I realise it's not the same thing, and now that I think about it I can't really recall what I did about it...

I think one of the mod makers (thanks by the way) put up a new file to replace an old one in the game.
Make sure DEBUGSLIC=No is in userprofile.txt (hope that's right folks... mnbryan37, just check the Cradle readme, it says there), then bring up the dialogue box in the game (hit the apostrophe key) and type in /reloadslic and hit enter. Might work, i'm not guru enough to know much more than that I'm afriad.

Hope it works out!

HuangShang, glad to see you've finally joined us!

Shadow

Jesper Portus · September 16, 2002, 07:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
The restart issue is a tough one. One the one hand it's not fair to the people who play the game once that some others restart 3 times and thus gain a huge advantage (

Yeah, it is a tough one. In these tournament I did my first restart of all tournaments, because Iám 2 turns before the video. Meanwhile I played the first game till thias video. With one little city I can´t maintain my army and can´t defend my city: The end.

I feel my restart as an tribut to craddle. I think, I´am playing not bad. In unmodded games I allways the winner, so that unmodded games are boring. That´s the reason for playing the tournament: Leraning new mods and haveing fun with the mod and the other players.

Quote:

[SIZE=1] I don't want to have official rules on this (because they can't be enforced) but the an unofficial rule of thumb would be that you don't restart unless you've actually lost the game. Once you've seen that defeat movie, you're allowed to restart. (

I agree with this regulation.

STATUS:
Year 1.000 BC
Current Research: Tribunal Empire
Citys: 15
Military Status: At war with purple
- The persians sent one big stack of units after the next. I produce in 5 citys unit after unit to compense my losses in this war. I have never seen an persian city, they must be in the east. I pray for the day, when I can start my offence!!!

Problems: Half the production goes into the army. Sometimes barbarians destroy my farms and mines. Over all: Slow progress and fun with this mod!

So long

Jesper Portus

mnbryan37 · September 16, 2002, 22:13

Shadow,

Thanks for the input. That's about the extent of my knowledge too. I had tried that, and also re-installed the Cradle software, but I'm still stuck.

Good luck, Nuke a few Greeks for me too!!!

Shadow · September 16, 2002, 23:20

I don't think I'm going to make it folks...

I've stopped making armies 'cos I haven't even discovered gunpowder yet and they attacking me with Artillery and Machinegunners... so I'm going for mostly buildings to leverage any commerce or research I can.

Paying out huge for diplomacy and stealing tech. I'm about 40+ techs behind the AI and increasing...

Still finding new places to settle though... LOL

Jesper Portus · September 17, 2002, 02:45

One thing to the "restart-discussion":

If you restart, you have less more time to play this tournament. Normally you have than to play faster and therefore to play less more effective. For that restart is although an disadvantage!
(I mean "normal" restarts caused by the strong AI, not restarts to spy the world and use this informations.)

I don´t know, if I can finish this tournament with my normal speed in time. Therefore I´am playing fast without a good strategy. Just building armys and survive...

STATUS: The AI survived CHRISTIANNITY, arrghhhh! My temple of Salomon is no longer a wonder!

So long
Jesper Portus

Dread_Doomfist · September 17, 2002, 23:26

argl..can't finish the game..i capture the last town..i see the end-movie..and then, the game crashes..thats really bad...i can't see the end-score...hmm..can anyone help with this problem?

Maquiladora · September 18, 2002, 10:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
argl..can't finish the game..i capture the last town..i see the end-movie..and then, the game crashes..thats really bad...i can't see the end-score...hmm..can anyone help with this problem?

Try pressing 'Esc' when the end movie starts to skip it. If not post your save at that point and someone can try and finish it for you im sure.

Dread_Doomfist · September 18, 2002, 13:05

ESC doesn't work...it's possible that my civ.exe is destroyed...had many crashes in the last days...but thanx...anyway...i post the autosave...and locutus can try to finish..it's the finish-move by end-year...

Dread_Doomfist · September 18, 2002, 13:35

ok...that's it...looks a little bit crazy...had renamed some citys and disband many citys one the main-continent..for better organization and handling with my opponents...

Dread_Doomfist · September 18, 2002, 13:36

oh..and i forget....just walk with the fusion-tank-army into the last egyptian-city..down under..

DD

mnbryan37 · September 19, 2002, 20:31

I can no longer contimue my game (I'm at about 500AD) as it now crashes after every turn. (during the AI's movement phase). I'm not sure my game was winable anyway, so it's no big loss. It was still a lot of fun (although also frustrating).

I've started a new Cradle game with some slight modifications to the program. Instead of giving the AI such a huge head start in advances, I limited the number of upgradeable units the Human player has available to about 50% of the total unit types (basically every other advance in each category). For example, the AI can still develop Hoplite's and Man At Arms, but the Human can not. I also eliminated the ability of the Human to upgrade units already produced, and made a corresponding decrease in gold production. I'm only at 3000BC so far, but it has worked out pretty good. The AI armies are still far superior, but I no longer have the problem of fighting Legions with Warriors! I also made some other minor changes to address "pet Peaves" of mine. I greatly reduced the probablities of success for Spy's and Slavors, as they have always been out of line with reality. (I once won a CIV 2 game by building only Spy's and Boats! It was the easiest win I ever made). I also reduce the number of points awarded for Wonders from 500 to 100. At 500 points per Wonder, they just dominate the toyal score and power graph's.

Maquiladora · September 19, 2002, 20:46

I agree, despite making the game much harder for the human, giving the AI such a big tech lead makes the player feel like he cant do anything about it, which leads to frustration. (to me at least). But each to their own.

Shame you cant finish this month

Shadow · September 19, 2002, 21:52

I don't belive it! Now THIS is a damn exciting turn of events...!!!

I agree, AI gets too much of a lead and it gets boring... I was really just going through the motions of getting defeated... BUT!

Then I discovered that my main enemy (Greens) has spread themselves too thin, and they sometimes leave the odd city TOTALLY unguarded!

So while they're out on the fronts trying to take all my freakin' cities, I'm whistling around with my chariots and horseys on their wonderful railway systems, dodging their tanks and bombers, taking the odd city here and there, for a total of about 10 cities now taken!!!!!!!

The biggest has been 25, most in the teens.
I can't possibly hold these cities so I just disband them. Actually I'm starting to hold them now as the Greens are weakening... their power graph is starting to make a downtrend. They're still third... but I've dented their armour... just gotta keep cruising my scouts around looking for vulnerable cities...

I'm gunna crush them damn it!!!!!!!

I LOVE IT, THIS IS AMAZING!!!

Shadow

centrifuge · September 20, 2002, 00:12

Shadow, its great to hear about the turn of events!! Patience appears to have come in handy

mnbryan, it's a bummer about the game. Do you think that the AI may have been pillaging neutral tile improvements? This will cause crashes very similar to what you've mentioned. If so, Martin G. created a fix that may work for you.

Shadow · September 20, 2002, 02:28

Loc, what's the final date for submissions?

My game it taking ages... each turn takes around 2 minutes to cycle through, and I can't always devote hours a day to it?

Are you still going to put a small extension on it?

J Bytheway · September 20, 2002, 08:34

Quote:

Originally posted by mnbryan37
I also reduce the number of points awarded for Wonders from 500 to 100. At 500 points per Wonder, they just dominate the toyal score and power graph's.

How did you change that?

Maquiladora · September 20, 2002, 10:27

Quote:

Originally posted by J Bytheway

How did you change that?

Its in DiffDB.txt

Code:

FEATS_FACTOR			100.0
ADVANCES_FACTOR			10.0
WONDERS_FACTOR			500.0
CITIES0TO30_FACTOR		10.0
CITIES30TO100_FACTOR		25.0
CITIES100TO500_FACTOR		50.0
CITIES500PLUS_FACTOR		100.0
CITIES_RECAPTURED_FACTOR	50.0
POPULATION_FACTOR		2000.0
RANK_FACTOR			2000.0
OPPONENTS_CONQUERED_FACTOR 	500.0
ALLIES_FACTOR			300.0
WONDER_VICTORY_BONUS		500.0
SOLO_VICTORY_BONUS		5000.0
ALLIED_VICTORY_BONUS		5000.0

mnbryan37 · September 20, 2002, 10:36

J Bytheway

The place to modify the number of points given per Wonder is in the DiffrDB file in the gamedata folder. This file has a number of the starting parameters for each level of difficulty. This is also where you can modify the number of Advances the AI starts with and the probability of getting various begining Advances. I modified the Wonder's # of points as it greatly distorts the Power Graph's, as the weakest player can be rated number 1 if all it did was build the majority of the Wonders.

Centrifuge,

I do have Martin's fix installed that corrects the problem of pillaging on unoccupied tiles. The first two times I crashed it was while the AI was pillaging a tile on a city I had previously captured and was currently occuping. Now the crash happens so fast it's not obvious what is happening at the time of the crash.

Martin Gühmann · September 20, 2002, 11:55

Actual it is not needed to install my fix on Cradle: It is already in. I think the crashes are rather caused by some part of DiploMod. I had in the two previous tournerment games problems with DiploMod, too.

-Martin

centrifuge · September 20, 2002, 11:58

Speaking of tournament games, are you playing in this one Martin?

Martin Gühmann · September 20, 2002, 13:08

Quote:

Originally posted by centrifuge
Speaking of tournament games, are you playing in this one Martin?

So far I have no idea if I can, because I have some uni work that should be first done. Well so far I did not install Cradle v.1.33.

-Martin

centrifuge · September 20, 2002, 13:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Well so far I did not install Cradle v.1.33.

In case you do find the time to play in this one, the tourney is still using Cradle v.1.32.