Oppositions to Arabs - Page 14

Tattila the Hun · October 30, 2002, 08:45

Finnish?

Have to have a counter-weight to the Russians...

Traelin · October 30, 2002, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by gsmoove23
You should realize you're posting to an atheist.

Actually I didn't realize it.

I just thought you leaned a bit toward the left.

Ozymandias · October 30, 2002, 11:34

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
sino (chinese): afaik usually buddhists
soviet: majority russian-orthodox (christians)

Both SEVERELY repressed under Communist rule. Most of the soldiers on both sides in the 1970s would never have been exposed to religion at all.

-- Now, on the other hand, I really do think that, e.g., Maoism can, for all intents and purposes, be viewed as a religion -- that is, if you're willing to unleash a lengthy deconstruction of what "religion" is

Given that few of us can agree on what a civilization is, perhaps we should hold off on that debate until Civ4 ...

All the Best,

Oz

Traelin · October 30, 2002, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandias
Given that few of us can agree on what a civilization is, perhaps we should hold off on that debate until Civ4 ...

All the Best,

Oz

LOL so true so true...

Ozymandias · October 30, 2002, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by gsmoove23
You notice how no one ever says "you're right I agree with you" after an arguement? Its damn annoying cause I'm almost always right and I'd like some acknowledgement once in awhile

I agree, in spirit -- (and, gsmoove, this is in NO WAY directed to you!) I think that's the difference beween an "argument" and a "discussion".

-Oz

gsmoove23 · October 30, 2002, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by gsmoove23
You should realize you're posting to an atheist.

It seemed like such an innocent post at the time. As for one less thing to fight for, atheism, I think the word means that I do not believe in a God or Gods. This does not mean I reject an underlying order to the universe or I don't have certain beliefs that I take on faith which makes me sometimes wonder if I don't still have a religion, albeit disorganized.

I've seen some fundamentalist atheists and they're downright awful.

gsmoove23 · October 30, 2002, 14:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandias

I agree, in spirit -- (and, gsmoove, this is in NO WAY directed to you!) I think that's the difference beween an "argument" and a "discussion".

-Oz

You mean there's a distinction

I think I've just been having arguements all the time

Buster13 · October 30, 2002, 14:58

How about a whole new level of Civ insanity:

Religious Preference:

You could research them just like governments, could incorporate with the polytheistic and monotheistic techs that exist already, but could add...

Atheism (the middle-ground between switching religions)
Christianity (Bonus to production but -1 happiness per city due to guilt).
Taoism (penalty to production unless enlightened and then every build is instantanous since it's action through inaction, reduces pollution)
Judaism (bonus to gold, military unit costs reduced, penalty to happiness since the promised one hasn't come for 4000 years...)
Confusionism (Bonus to Science, penalty to production because of all the time quoting Confusious)
Druidic (Bonus to Food growth, requires two fur resources to maintain the Clerical wardrobe, or you slip into atheism)
Islam (dare I go there....I....I just can't) Bonus to happiness since they don't carry the Christian guilt, resistence to propaganda except from own government, resistent to Democracy. There, I almost did it...
Anglican (Makes up own rules)
Methodist (Same as christianity with a gold bonus)
Shinto (+2 happiness per city, cannot exist during wartime)
Zen...........

roalan · October 30, 2002, 15:21

Religions are the cause of wars and killing not the Almighty.That is all I ment,I believe in the Lord but not in religions because man makes up his own rules in Gods name and if you do not obey then the threats come and the killing is not far behind.

gsmoove23 · October 30, 2002, 15:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Buster13
How about a whole new level of Civ insanity:

Thats some pretty risky terrain. Would you believe the first one you've offended is an atheist.

What do you mean "the middle-ground between switching religions" and where are my bonuses?!?!?!?

the only way it could work is if you offended everyone equally.

Buster13 · October 30, 2002, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by gsmoove23

Thats some pretty risky terrain. Would you believe the first one you've offended is an atheist.

What do you mean "the middle-ground between switching religions" and where are my bonuses?!?!?!?

the only way it could work is if you offended everyone equally.

Alright, alright...

Agnosticism will be the new middle ground.

Atheism will be Gold Bonus due to not having to tithe religious institutions, Corruption reduction due to lack of excess rules, but since support for spirituality in public discourse is lacking, is particularly susceptible to propoganda from Christianity, Islam, and other Big Institution religions.

A new one : Fundamentalism. 1 free military unit per city, hates communism, penalty to corruption since legal statutes come from vague religious stories.

Baptist: Same as Christianity except entertainers have double effect since they sing in church.

I'm going to offend everyone.....

sabrewolf · October 30, 2002, 17:50

if we're going to be politicaly incorrect, i'll add my ideas too.. it's just humour, don't take it serious

catholicism: first 5 gold in each city goes to the capital (e.g. rome). advantage: helps converting people of smaller religions (like indios, african tribes)

protestantism: makes people further away from the capital happier. costs less

sectism: converts people slowly, production loss, costs a lot, but converted people survive apocalyptical scenarios (e.g. nuclear wars, alien invasion, etc.)

judaism: 25% more trade, conversion to other religions nearly impossible. disadvantage: every several hundred years people of this religion get ethnicly cleansed

sabrewolf · October 30, 2002, 17:53

and so on...

but serious: if there were religions in civ3, there should also be a percentage of faith.

100% means no science, no contacts to other religions, but also no unhappiness
[...]
0% means max. progress, but no temples, cathedrals and other religious happiness-productions

Heresson · October 30, 2002, 20:33

Quote:

My God/Allah

I know You know that, but Allah = God.
Calling Muslims the worshippers of Allah is offending.
They do not worship a God named Allah - they worship God.

Quote:

Hrm, the most widely-read book of all time? I think that counts for something. And yes, that includes Christians too, but as I've said countless times in this thread, Christ was a Jew, too.

I know - but it's not that easy.
It's like saying that Americans are English and thus,
talking about American achievements British.

gsmoove23 · November 2, 2002, 14:02

Atheism - Corruption increase because of lack of rules

Who says its wrong to skim a little off the top.

Ozymandias · November 2, 2002, 14:48

Quote:

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Atheism - Corruption increase because of lack of rules

Who says its wrong to skim a little off the top.

-- Usually legal codes and the increasingly ethereal notion of "business ethics".

Oh, ts, tsk, tsk. Is it really necessary to have a divinity peaking over one's shoulder, or live in fear of eternal retribution, to behave decently? Or (please, God!

) might there be some inherent possibility of human decency?

... Or shall I start on a "reductio ad absurdum" viz riutalistic murders in the name of Kali?

Oy,

Oz

dirtstylez79 · November 2, 2002, 14:50

If u ad religion to civilization its gonna end up a game like Age of Empire

No civ building or trading or diplomacy or advancement

plain stupid war all the time ,

even people between your civilization will fight themself
and its gonna be one of the dumbest game to play

Like the world today ,wich war is created by Religion and profit.

And dont even talk about Israel , because i know jewish people and they can even tell u that Isreal is the same thing as germany under nazi rule.

Big pot of BS for nothing , people there got the same bloodline and they will still fight 5000 years from now for a little piece of cake

LionQ · November 3, 2002, 08:46

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
and so on...

but serious: if there were religions in civ3, there should also be a percentage of faith.

100% means no science, no contacts to other religions, but also no unhappiness
[...]
0% means max. progress, but no temples, cathedrals and other religious happiness-productions

That's a good point, then you have to find the excellent balance between atheism or completely religious. But I don't think religion should be added more to the game then just the CivAbility: Religious. It's ok this way. Israel is a special case in this, because they are the only country with their religion, so if you'd add Israel to the game, you're immediately adding the Jewish Religion. With other Civs it isn't that way: America is not the defender of the Christly (

) religion, for instance.

Ozymandias · November 3, 2002, 15:24

Quote:

Originally posted by CivilopediaCity

That's a good point, then you have to find the excellent balance between atheism or completely religious. But I don't think religion should be added more to the game then just the CivAbility: Religious.

Agreed entirely -- as I mentioned above, religions have (in many cases) indulged in ritual murder, which I daresay Buddhism wouldn't condone -- so we'd have to get into the Civ "properties" of each religion ...

Quote:

It's ok this way. Israel is a special case in this, because they are the only country with their religion, so if you'd add Israel to the game, you're immediately adding the Jewish Religion.

Hmm... But for the common set of enemies, it might be argued that Israel is really TWO Civs, a religious-Jewish one with Jerusalem as its capital, and a secular-Jewish one with Tel Aviv as its.

Quote:

With other Civs it isn't that way: America is not the defender of the Christly (

) religion, for instance.

Thank God for that -- except of course there is currently a very politically activist "Christian" right-wing in the good old U.S.ofA. who really believe that we are in the hallucinatory "End-Days" of the Book of Revelations and seem willing (nay, eager) to attempt to guide national policy accordingly ... Did I mention that part of the pre-requisite for this Biblical "Game-Over" is Armageddon?

Yours Fervently Behind Separation Of Church & State,

Oz

ilcattolico · November 3, 2002, 17:23

America is not basically "English." America is a melting pot of people from all over Europe, Latin America & other regions of the world. America has its own culture and is very different from England.

Ozymandias · November 3, 2002, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by ilcattolico
America is not basically "English." America is a melting pot of people from all over Europe, Latin America & other regions of the world. America has its own culture and is very different from England.

... which brings us back to my favorite (and perhaps unanswerable) question, "What is a civilization" -- back in the lonago 1980s, one of the editors of the Washington Post wrote a book called "The Nine Nations Of North America" which, irrespective of actual national boundaries, compelling identified nine geographically contiguous, very different cultural "nations", spanning from his albeit glibly named "Ecotopia" (the North Pacific coast from about the Big Sur to well north of Vancouver) to an essentially Latin Caribbean "nation" with Miami as its capitol. Each area was well-defined by economy and culture -- and that's after the 20th century incarnation of the Great American Melting Pot had largely done its job.

-Oz

CrONoS · November 4, 2002, 04:24

not so many people here, told the fact that:

Arabs bring in Europa(in the middle age) , Aristote(dont know in english), Platon, Pythagore and a lot of old greek thinker...
Arabs was an advanced scientific society in the MiddleAge, mathematic, astronomy, chemistry(alchemy), and when Platon, Aristote, Pythagore was more know by European, he bring us Renaissance.

I've see some post here told us that if Arabs was in the game,why not Israel?
Because Arabs refer to the Middle Age and not now. Israel does not write history for now..( maybe in the futur... in next world war

) But Jews are represented in the game by Hebrews.

So have a nice day... sorry for my orthographic/syntax error.

See Ya

sabrewolf · November 4, 2002, 05:02

cronos, nice summary of this thread

but hebrews aren't included in the game - that's one of the reasons of this 400+ post thread.

Rust · November 4, 2002, 09:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Sonic
Everyone is saying Arabs should be not in just for political reasons (or because they are racists). If computer games would be introduced in like 1930s now everybody would object Zululand (because they are blacks).

Yah I agree they shouldn't have been put in because they are sooo racist.

Rust · November 4, 2002, 09:36

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
Arabs bring in Europa(in the middle age) , Aristote(dont know in english), Platon, Pythagore and a lot of old greek thinker...
Arabs was an advanced scientific society in the MiddleAge, mathematic, astronomy, chemistry(alchemy), and when Platon, Aristote, Pythagore was more know by European, he bring us Renaissance.

See I thought that was the Iranians, that were advanced, and the Arabs take credit for it.

Martinus · November 4, 2002, 10:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Rust

See I thought that was the Iranians, that were advanced, and the Arabs take credit for it.

Damn Arabs, taking credit for all those Iranians in Egypt and Moorish Spain

Traelin · November 4, 2002, 14:11

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
if we're going to be politicaly incorrect, i'll add my ideas too.. it's just humour, don't take it serious

catholicism: first 5 gold in each city goes to the capital (e.g. rome). advantage: helps converting people of smaller religions (like indios, african tribes)

ROFL that is too funny!

I'm Catholic, yet I have to agree with your humor here.

Traelin · November 4, 2002, 14:13

Quote:

Originally posted by dirtstylez79
And dont even talk about Israel , because i know jewish people and they can even tell u that Isreal is the same thing as germany under nazi rule.

That's just plain silly and uninformed. But I'm not gonna go into this one, I'm just tired of defending the same points over and over again.

Caliban · November 4, 2002, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Traelin

That's just plain silly and uninformed. But I'm not gonna go into this one, I'm just tired of defending the same points over and over again.

And again we got a nice little policy chat that has nothing to do with hte game!

canadianbacon · November 4, 2002, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
Hopefully we will get a world map that is at least marginally correct this time around. Did any of you ever play the other world map Firaxis put out? I never knew everything north of the 49th was covered in glacial ice but I guess it must be; after all that's how Firaxis portrayed it.

LOL, here I am, sitting in Vancouver, just above the 49th Parrellel(USA-Canada Border is 49th). I guess that little frost I saw on the lawn this morning is a precursor to the giant icefields waiting to slip down and lay waste to most Canadian Cities.

Its good for a laugh, isn't it? I guess someone doesn't like us up here too much!