Newbie's guide?

[SeaPark]

OK guys, here's a major request . I've been browsing these boards, but it's kinda like Linux man pages: there's so much info on so many topics that it is a little hard to get started. I mean I'm looking for something to start me on my merry path to learning to play this wonderful game (BTW: I suck!) and, the next thing I know, I am neck deep in SLIC talk or features I have yet to encounter.

I thought about RTFM, but is it really much value (especially since the game has been healed by modders!@)? I've seen references to this and that thread (and gotten lost in them!), but I'm looking for a suggested reading list that is a primer on how to play. Really basic.

I ain't stupid and I can read (and cipher better'n Jethro). I just need to know in what order to connect the dots.

Thanks
Sean

[child of Thor]

well if you've never played a 'civ' type game before i'd start by reading the manual - it'll cover the basic's for you. Once you got the hang of that have a look through the 'Tactics database' thread in this forum, it's got some useful things in it.

[Maquiladora]

Thats a good point actually, im not sure if there is a newbies guide of that sort on here. I presume everything that is basic, really basic, is covered in the tutorials in the manual.

Id definately recommend getting used to the unmodded game first, then try Apolyton pack 2.0 and then any other.

[Pedrunn]

The best info collected from all threads can be found in the CTP2 FAQ wich is topped in this forum:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=38633

Despite what Maquilador said i recommend you play the Apolyton Pack first (The Fan's Patch)

[SeaPark]

Thanks again for the collective help.

Yep. I've played 'civ' games. I suck at civ2, too. However, I will be checking out 'Tactics database' for sure!

The stupid manual is too much like a "_anything_ for dummies" book. It was mind-numbing - WAY TOO basic.

I've read the CTP2 FAQ thread ( http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=38633 ) and saw enough value to copy it to my HD! However, most of the (GREAT!) info is for overcoming obstacles and less on "how to win (w/o cheating)."

I started Apolyton pack 2.0 last night. I'm a stinky lemur poo and still in ancient times, but already like it better (I figure cheating my first game or two is OK. I mean... I know I suck and the money gives me a feel and shows me what to work for. Right?).

Oh, well... On to TACTICS!

Thanks,
Sean

[mapfi]

Adding money? For Gods sake on what level are you playing on? Don't destroy the serious fun of CtP2 by cheating. If you think you suck lower the level. You also have to see that you'll actually get the most fun of the game if it's a permanent struggle. Loosing battles, loosing cities and being behind in the tech tree for a very very long time is what you have to cope with so you'll eventually emerge as the glorious winner at the end. Otherwise it's a game where you see already at 200AD that you'll win eventually because you're already the greatest civilization, and such a game just looses it's magic right then.

[Maquiladora]

I dunno, maybe he gets more fun by cheating? at the moment anyway, then thats fair enough. Personally i like to have small periods of really low points, losing cities/huge stacks etc and then when i have the high points it feels great to put one over on the AI. If theres large periods of low points, like seriously lagging behind in tech (like in cradle) it can become testing.

[Locutus]

I would love to compose things like strategy guides, decent manuals/tutorials (for the mods) and stuff, but I just don't have the time, next to all the other stuff I do

[SeaPark]

Geez Louise, guys! I said I was cheating to get a feel for the game and to know what to look for ! When slapping the other guys around gets old and I know what does what, I'll let the AI beat the crap outta me for awhile.

In the meantime, why don't some of you post your ideas on Emprie Planning - how do you pick the best sites for new cities?

If you get tired of that, how about ideas on City Planning. What do you build when, yada, yada, yada...

OR ...

Just go back to slapping me around. I like it!

P.S.

I'll read the manual tonight, even though several Apolyton posts and reviews say how lame it is ...

[HuangShang]

check out the Tactics database for military stuff aight

[mapfi]

You were asking:

I know I suck and the money gives me a feel and shows me what to work for. Right?).

and is was saying no, rather lower the level because in my opionion cheating will destroy the fun of the game.
Sorry for the slapping. Actually my post was that harsh because I sometimes played like that until I discovered how much more fun CtP2 can actually be when it's a permanent struggle and not just some managing that'll lead you to your unavoidable victory.

[Maquiladora]

I put my thoughts on city placement here, pretty small, but still more useful than the manual.

[SeaPark]

Well, I started on the manual last night...

Got bored and searched the boards. Got determined and went back to the stinking manual. 2 reasons:

1. I need a good foundation and some game-hours to better appreciate the threads and their interplay.

2. I'm copying bits and pieces to form my own crap-free condensed version of the official manual. I'm saving the bits that make me go "Hmm... "

The manual is a little frustrating because (well, because it rambles a bit and goes into painfully obvious stuff in depth) I am not sure how to weight statement like "X is the key to ... "


When I am done, I can post the collected bits and let you guys have at it.


One thing I've noticed is it's pretty tough to definitively categorize a topic. I started with the basic goals of the game as stated in the manual: Growth, Conquest, Trade, Science, yada x 3... However, many subjects need to be cross-categorized.

Example:
Old threads and the tactics databse clearly explain how to use slavers to leverage your city growth. Category = GROWTH THEN there's the several posts dealing with managing where the slaves go. Category = Slavers, Garrisons
Finally, Slavers pops up under Category = Special Units.

I'd really like a knowledgebase that is searchable, hyperlinked, small, easy, and FREE. I plan on compiling everything into the free version of treepad (free at http://www.treepad.com - look for it). Files are actually text. It may not have all the bells and whistles, but the price is right.

Before I get too committed to treepad, does anyone have a suggestion on a searchable format? I thought about Access, but the bloat, man, THE BLOAT! I think Acces would lead to serious project scope creep.

[SeaPark]

How about some help with info categories for the proposed newbie's guide. From the manual, the game goals are:

Exploration
Growth
Building
Conflict
Science
Trade
Diplomacy

I would also add:

Tactics

Specialists


Remember, this is a NEWBIES guide. KISS principle applies. Since I am a rank newbie, I think I know what a newbie is looking for (or maybe NOT ). However, I don't yet know what I need to know.

I think of it like this:
"This is a self guided course. You will conduct your own research. Here is a prioritized list of research topics. Master them. We have provided some starter material, now you do the research."


Input anyone?

[child of Thor]

well SeaPark, i applaud your desire to get something down here that will help newbies. One thing you will find is that there are general hints and mod-specific hints. That i find, is quite a scary thought.
So scary that i just 'use the force' while playing, which ever mod it happens to be.
Some of the changes that the mods make are subtle and i think this may be the reason no-one has really hammered out a playing guide before. The first few, half-dozen games are the learning experience with any CTP2 game. Then you pick up things that seem to work well, and/or fit well into the character of the civ you want to develope.

On start-up I will examine my surroundings very carefully before moving. If it looks like a good site then settle straight away. If it's not looking good then i may move around for a few hundred years(!) to get a better location. I don't actually care that i may loose some ground on the AI in this time - just makes it more challangeing(i never re-start for the sake of it).

The manual explains good sites for you, and i guess it's also common sense if you know a little about ancient history.
Once that first city is founded i change the empire sliders- increase work hours,increase food.

I will build 1 or 2 units in the city, 1 to defend - 1 to explore(In mods like craddle you get given a defensive unit when you build a city - i add 1 more just to be safe).

Then it's infastructure.Grannary first, maybe a temple if i'm feeling religious.

Now it's time for a second settler if i haven't discovered one in any ruin's i've been exploreing.

If i've been very lucky and picked up a few goodies from ruins(maybe a unit or two, or maybe a lost tribe/settler), then i usually start a wonder in my first city.

This is one way i find works well on start-up of my games. Many people will have other ways. I find part of the fun in CTP2 is the having to respond to circumstances around you - there is no real hard fast way to play it. Each game is a little different, and that is what makes this game so captivating for me!

[Maquiladora]

I never build granaries in any of the mods, reason being that the growth that you gain, is much less profitable in a small city like that, which would be much more easily gained by slavers.

I generally just keep churning out military units, if my city is built near mountains and/or slow-moving terrain i build ranged units, if its in the open, grassland/plains, i build defensive units. In cradle i just keep churning out spearmen though. And try to end each of my units turns on a good defendable terrain.

Depending on the mod ill go for a settler when i feel ive got enough defence around my city, and also depending largely on the barbarians setting, ie if its just "ruins only" go for a settler after about 2/3 military units. That covers about the first 15/20 turns.

[Locutus]

Yes, I think this guide is an excellent idea