September 10, 2002, 00:36
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#151
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King
Local Time: 23:44
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Anaheim, California
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
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Originally posted by JCG
That's right, certainly it has many flaws. But then again you could say the same thing about the abscence of belief (or hatred of beliefs in general) clouding reason, which is also a distinct possibility (even if an unlikely one, I know).
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I am pretty sure that Madelyn Murry O'Hare often had clouded reasoning.
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September 10, 2002, 03:55
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#152
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King
Local Time: 07:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Converted underground reservoir tank.
Posts: 1,345
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Smith's Wager makes more sense than Pascal's Wager.
If God is benevolent, then he won't punish me for being an unbeliever due to lack of evidence.
If God is malevolent, then it doesn't matter if I believe in God or not, he'll punish me anyhow.
If God is indifferent, it doesn't matter if I believe or not.
If God does not exist, it doesn't matter if I believe or not.
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September 10, 2002, 04:07
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#153
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
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What if he's really anal retentive and a stickler for rules?
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"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
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September 10, 2002, 04:16
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#154
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Administrator
Local Time: 09:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
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Am I too late for the debate?
Too bad 
I'm a christian.
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Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
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September 10, 2002, 05:55
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#155
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Prince
Local Time: 15:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 888
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My apologies if this has already been posted.
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Golfing since 67
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September 10, 2002, 06:00
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#156
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King
Local Time: 23:44
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Anaheim, California
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
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Originally posted by CyberShy
Am I too late for the debate?
Too bad
I'm a christian.
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Its never too late Cybershy. If you had missed this one another one would be along in a week or two. Kind of like the Israel threads or the Anti-America threads.
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September 10, 2002, 06:43
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#157
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Administrator
Local Time: 09:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
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That's right Ethelred,
we can't live without each other 
you're still sticking to the atheist point of view btw?
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
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September 10, 2002, 07:08
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#158
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 01:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 13,063
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Quote:
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Originally posted by loinburger
I could have sworn that it was a Christian that started this thread, not an atheist...
Run a search for old religious troll threads, you'll find that almost all of them were started by Christians. My favorite was "The Evangelical Atheist," in which the thread starter basically started a religious troll thread in which he complained that atheists start too many religious troll threads or something. Good times.
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this thread was not a troll (the opening post was not)
many of the posts it in are though
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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September 10, 2002, 08:41
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#159
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King
Local Time: 04:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by jimmytrick
Do you folks know anything about the blood of Christ?
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What is that? 
I will never believe or trust Christians.
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Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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September 10, 2002, 09:17
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#160
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Quote:
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Originally posted by connorkimbro
I don't believe in christians.
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As I said; I don't believe in any of you, that I have not personally seen, and therefore have no compelling validation that you truly exist.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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September 10, 2002, 09:26
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#161
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Asher
So sad...
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What a tube steak.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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September 10, 2002, 09:26
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#162
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Let me do a little editting to make this sentence more in line with reality:
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Quote:
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Originally posted by loinburger
I could have sworn that it was a [DL] that started this thread, not a [Christian]...
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Snoggo will not be pleased at you for misrepresenting the facts. 
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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September 10, 2002, 09:48
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#163
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Administrator
Local Time: 09:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
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Quote:
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Fez: I will never believe or trust Christians.
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you won't believe them on any topic?
You will never trust any christian in anything?
fanatic
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
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September 10, 2002, 09:49
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#164
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Retired
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SlowwHand
What a tube steak.
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HEY... What part of my earlier post DON'T you understand! 
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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September 10, 2002, 09:51
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#165
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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You made a post?
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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September 10, 2002, 09:52
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#166
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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I understand perfectly that on some things the rules are enforced one way, while traffic in the opposite direction is waved on through.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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September 10, 2002, 10:18
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#167
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King
Local Time: 07:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: TN
Posts: 1,864
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To answer the first post, yes, I am a Christian. But many of my views would be rejected by others who also call themselves Christian. I think that Galileo for example was a Christian even though he believed in the obvious reality of his observations. God is a spirit and it is not possible to know of his reality except by spiritual means. That is why I do not often enter debates with those who deny a spiritual realm. It is kind of like trying to communicate with someone when we are using two different communication channels. My christian views are prety much expressed in my book that is available here.
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September 10, 2002, 10:39
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#168
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Prince
Local Time: 08:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: KULTUR-TERROR
Posts: 958
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I worship Odin
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CSPA
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September 10, 2002, 10:40
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#169
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Odin is dead. Thor is in charge now.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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September 10, 2002, 10:45
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#170
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,605
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Why bother, Surt's just gonna burn down Valhalla anyway...
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"For just twenty cents a day, we'll moisten your dreams with man urine." -Space Ghost
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September 10, 2002, 10:53
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#171
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Ragnarok isn't for a long while though.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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September 10, 2002, 11:13
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#172
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Prince
Local Time: 08:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 366
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I am a Christian too
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September 10, 2002, 11:24
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#173
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Prince
Local Time: 08:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: KULTUR-TERROR
Posts: 958
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Odin is dead. Thor is in charge now.
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I spoke to both of them this morning. Nothing has changed.
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CSPA
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September 10, 2002, 11:29
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#174
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Retired
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
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Enough with the threadjacking...
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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September 10, 2002, 11:30
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#175
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Gangerolf
I spoke to both of them this morning. Nothing has changed.
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Heretic! I read about thier glories in a holy book put out each month.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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September 10, 2002, 11:38
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#176
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Nobody answered my quesion on Judas.
I wasn't being at all facetious.
So what do the Christians think about him ?
Did/does Judas get a bad deal?
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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September 10, 2002, 11:46
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#177
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,605
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Depends on whether you believe in predestination or free will, I spose. If predestination, then everybody who's evil gets a raw deal. If free will, then Judas may have been manipulated, but that's not a very good excuse.
__________________
"For just twenty cents a day, we'll moisten your dreams with man urine." -Space Ghost
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September 10, 2002, 11:51
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#178
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Deity
Local Time: 02:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Not necessarily. Not everyone perceived as evil plays any particular part in a bigger picture.
Kind of like Son of Sam, Charles Manson, etc.
I think for the most part Humans were given minds to make their own decisions, like whether to call someone a Tube Steak or not; but I also believe we're here for a particular purpose, with things meant for us to do.
Yeah, I have no firm basis for my opinion, but you know how Christian's are.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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September 10, 2002, 12:15
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#179
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King
Local Time: 04:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by CyberShy
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Quote:
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Fez: I will never believe or trust Christians.
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you won't believe them on any topic?
You will never trust any christian in anything?
fanatic
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No I am not a fanatic... but I decided that newsmax religious debates were enough for me and convinced me devout Christians are truely not people to talk to. I post at newsmax and the people there are so stupidly blind...
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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September 10, 2002, 13:06
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#180
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Emperor
Local Time: 00:44
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
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Originally posted by loinburger
Depends on whether you believe in predestination or free will, I spose. If predestination, then everybody who's evil gets a raw deal. If free will, then Judas may have been manipulated, but that's not a very good excuse.
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You can't look at Judas, IMO, and believe he had free will. His betrayal of Jesus was part of the deal in order to fulfill Jesus's destiny, etc. It sucks to be damned for something you have no control over. That's why I find Calvinists particularly loopy.
Judas was a poor schmuck who was probably doing what he felt was right and got screwed for it (assuming the Biblical account is true, which I do not assume anyway).
Another example of why I find the God depicted in the Bible to be pretty rotten. It's actually a fairly insulting description of a supposedly omnipotent, benevolent being.
And notice how Kcck vanished after the firs post... DL indeed. 
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